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PS Audio Noise Harvester - too much bass!  

post #1 of 141
1/11/07 at 1:40am
Thread Starter 
After I plugged in the Harvester I wasn't able to listen to my system anymore because of too much bass. Everything sounded too heavy from top to bottom. It gave me a headache within minutes.

I removed it from the wall, listened again after 30 seconds, it was still too heavy. Waited 26 seconds and tried again, it was less heavy. Waited 42 seconds, it sounded much thinner, it was close to "home". Waited 52 seconds, it was even thinner and there was sibilance too, bass was gone! Waited another 52 seconds and it didn't sound different.

It took 2 and half minutes for the noise to build up after removing the Harvester.


Then I plugged it into another circuit where my projector is connected, my audio system wasn't affected. I turned on my projector and the bright text gave me a headache. I couldn't read this forum anymore because of the yellow text.

Harvester makes a too big difference, I would like 10-20% performance instead, 100% is overkill in my system. It gives me headache.

At least now I know I don't need to buy more Harvesters, I had planned to cover all my walls with hundreds of them. I didn't expect one Harvester would do this much. I haven't plugged in the rest of my Harvesters yet, I have 4 of them (5th one I have dissected to death), I need to fix the heavy bass problem before trying them all.

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post #2 of 141
1/11/07 at 3:28am
Thread Starter 
Instead of running away from bass like sissy girl I'm trying the Harvester for my audio system again.

I found that I'm able to listen to a few albums without problems for an hour. But when I listened to one of my favorite albums I got a headache after 1 minute and felt sick in stomach after 2 mins 14 seconds. Bass was too heavy and tight. It felt like something was coming up from my throat so I had to change to another album. The problem went away when I chose an album that had little bass.

The improvement from Harvester is like a power cord 4+ times the size (more bass) but without the lack of detail. The improvement isn't as impressive as ERS Paper (link) or Valhalla interconnect modifications (link, link) which gave pure resolution without adding any weight. But the difference is more obvious since the Harvester makes everything too heavy. It boosts up the bass!



The difference from Harvester is bigger than:
  • Stock vs xStream Statement power cord for computer. Statement gave me fatigue from bass, but lack of detail was more annoying.
  • Solid-tech vibration isolation, 3 vs 4 steps. Adding the extra step of isolation gave enough blackness and heaviness to make me sick.
  • MWave1 vs MWave4. MWave4 gave loads of pure resolution but also made it warmer, it doesn't bother me though. It took months to get used to the tight bass transients.

I would compare Harvester with MWave4 (PS Audio MultiWave II) since it improves everything without adding any weaknesses. Harvester is like MWave4 except it also adds heaviness top to bottom, it also makes everything little tighter to keep the same detail.
  1. I changed from MWave4 to MWave1 and low-level bass transients were missing, it made it sound thinner, colder, brighter and there was more midrange. That explains why MWave4 is so warm, because there is more low-level information.
    When I changed back to MWave4 the transients were back and I also noticed more depth in the soundstage. I'm in love with MWave4.

  2. Removed Harvester from the wall and waited 4 minutes, it sounded like the heaviness was toned down. The low-level detail was still there except it sounded thinner and more consistent. I like this more.
  1. Changed from MWave4 to MWave1 and plugged the Harvester back in, waited 3 minutes. The increase in heaviness was huge but the lack of low-level detail was also more apparent.

The difference when adding Harvester is 5 times bigger than the difference between MWave1 and MWave4.
MWave4 without the Harvester sounds better to me than MWave1 with the Harvester. Having clean power isn't as important as I thought, it makes it sound heavier but it doesn't increase as much detail as power supply manipulation does.


_______________________


Only $100 for a Harvester to get a huge difference like this is crazy, especially since I'm already using Ultimate Outlet + P300 Power Plant.
I would like 20% the performance of the Harvester, a full 100% seems to be overkill for my system. I can't recommend anyone buying the 5 pack, 1 or 2 is enough if you already have a power conditioner.
I will keep it plugged in and see if I get used to it, based on previous upgrades I know it's possible, it's very hard work though. I need to do warm-ups and use different music and stuff.
post #3 of 141
1/11/07 at 5:00am
You could be at or very near the infamous "brown note" and although this is something of myth* you may have found the sweet spot at which this alleged phenomenon occurs. Proceed with caution.

* http://www.meyersound.com.au/brownnote.shtm

Disclaimer: this message is not to be taken seriously and is intended as a potential light hearted relief though this is not guaranteed.
post #4 of 141
1/11/07 at 8:46am
Anybody else notice that certain people on here are shills for companies? I will not get into the NH again we have already proven it is bunk with science.
post #5 of 141
1/11/07 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierraalphahotel View Post

You could be at or very near the infamous "brown note" and although this is something of myth* you may have found the sweet spot at which this alleged phenomenon occurs. Proceed with caution.

* http://www.meyersound.com.au/brownnote.shtm

Disclaimer: this message is not to be taken seriously and is intended as a potential light hearted relief though this is not guaranteed.


Thanks for dragging one of the most respected speaker companies into this mud. LOL
post #6 of 141
1/11/07 at 10:17am
I have a Noise Harvester, and while I think it is very nice for the money, I haven't found it to be particularly better than similar products, like the Audioprism Quietlines or Blue Circle Noise Hounds.

The best thing, however, is that with the blinking blue light, you can tell when there's a lot of noise on your line and when there's not. During the day, from about 7:30am til about 8pm at night, mine blinks like mad...and then starts slowing down until about 11pm, where it hardly blinks at all. Worst time of day is between 11am-1pm....
post #7 of 141
1/11/07 at 3:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by speco2003 View Post

Anybody else notice that certain people on here are shills for companies? I will not get into the NH again we have already proven it is bunk with science.

I want to see the video where you measure frequency response of speakers after adding the Harvester, do you still have it?
post #8 of 141
1/11/07 at 4:04pm
Well the addition of the NH isn't going to change the FR of the amp or player. Given that, why would the FR of the speaker then change?
post #9 of 141
1/11/07 at 5:03pm
Thread Starter 
I would do double blind test video but the difference is too big it's not worth the time. There are also skeptics who want to live in their dream world and if I take that away they won't like it.
The difference with Noise Harvester is far bigger than my power cords for computer blind test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_bMgSYpZac
post #10 of 141
1/11/07 at 5:11pm
Have you tried re-wiring the Harvester with Valhalla yet?
post #11 of 141
1/11/07 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValhallaPC View Post

I want to see the video where you measure frequency response of speakers after adding the Harvester, do you still have it?

I may still have the video. I can tell you there was ZERO change.
post #12 of 141
1/12/07 at 1:26pm
Are there any Psychiatrists in Sweden?
You need one, FAST.

I'm not saying that to be mean, this is a serious matter.
post #13 of 141
1/12/07 at 2:05pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrikos View Post

Are there any Psychiatrists in Sweden?
You need one, FAST.

I'm not saying that to be mean, this is a serious matter.

The ones who need psychiatrists are the ones who don't care about improvement.
post #14 of 141
1/12/07 at 9:19pm
Thread Starter 
I modified the Valhalla power cord for my computer (link) and that took care of a little weight but loads of muddiness. I don't know what Nordost was thinking when they designed the cable. I guess they put intentional muddiness on the cable to hide brightness in crappy systems. If customer's ears start hurting from brightness he's going to return the cable...

Since the sound got thinner from the Valhalla mod I was able to plug a Harvester to my wall to boost up the bass. Then I plugged in a 2nd Harvester to my P300 and bass was doubled again. I'm only listening to my sissy bass albums and I'm surprised of the amount of low-level detail I'm hearing. A whole new world of detail has opened up. It's one of the biggest improvements I have ever heard.
I'm hearing huge bass but it's distinct from the rest of the music, it doesn't bother me as much as before. I'm still getting headache from some albums though.
post #15 of 141
1/13/07 at 7:32am
Quote:


I'm still getting headache from some albums though.

I don't think your headaches are from the music.
post #16 of 141
1/13/07 at 4:33pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

I don't think your headaches are from the music.

Why? I don't have headaches when I don't listen to music. I get the headache from heavy and tight bass, I have had this with previous upgrades. The last time it took 3 months to get used to it, it was when I changed from 90Hz sinewave to MWave4 for my amp.
post #17 of 141
1/15/07 at 10:45am
This set of posts from the PSA site is truely funny. For a bunch of guys who claim to want they purest of sound they seem to hear great changes for the better after doing conversions of CDs. Amazing!That PPP does it all it seems.

Quote"barrows

Total Posts: 272

Member Since:
April 2005


View My System posted 1/15/2007 8:32:28 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi ELK, thanks for the comparsion. My only experience with FLAC is downloading from the web. I have compared FLAC downloads, converted to .wav, and burned to CDR (just on my computer at work at 4x using the windows media player) with commercially produced CDs, and found the downloaded and burned CDs to be more dynamic! I would conclude that FLAC itself must be a pretty close to lossless compression format for music files.

ELK

Total Posts: 462

Member Since:
May 2003


posted 1/15/2007 9:49:27 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FLAC is *supposed* to be lossless so we should not hear a difference. However, while I really like computers I am always suspicious of data manipulation so I have to convince myself.

Burned copies of CD's almost always sound better to me so it makes sense to me that a burned CD from a compressed lossless would sound better than a commercially pressed CD. This is sure counterintuitive however!

I am glad to learn that you also find FLAC compressed files to sound good. It's reassuring.

barrows

Total Posts: 272

Member Since:
April 2005


View My System posted 1/15/2007 9:56:37 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree regarding buned CDs vs. pressed. But we should consider that I did burn the CDs in this case via my work computer (powered from a Power Plant Premier) using the standard Windows software, without the benefit of an external burner, or better CD burning software, and still the results were very impressive. It makes we wish I had more time to investigate with a dedicated computer, better software, and good external CD burners. "
post #18 of 141
1/15/07 at 11:21am
Speco, apparently we're doomed. Throw a couple of Valhalla power cords on your mixing desk and walk away. The automation that the power cords will do are far superior to any human hands touching the board...

ONce I get caught up with emails and repairs I'll post the interesting high end a/b comparison of the speaker cables/treatment I saw at the Venetian...
post #19 of 141
1/15/07 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

Speco, apparently we're doomed. Throw a couple of Valhalla power cords on your mixing desk and walk away. The automation that the power cords will do are far superior to any human hands touching the board...

ONce I get caught up with emails and repairs I'll post the interesting high end a/b comparison of the speaker cables/treatment I saw at the Venetian...

Our wireless RF tech went to the home theatre section and said he had to leave very quickly because it made him so angry to see all the BS.

I was only able to make it into the big screen area because of limited time.
post #20 of 141
1/15/07 at 5:24pm
I'll have 31 pages of coverage on my website shortly with over 100 pix.

The HD DVD booth had the worst set up plasmas. At least 1/2 of them had massive green push, esp. during the fade to blacks. Some techy guy in the line in front of me noticed it as well and commented to the HD DVD guy who said nothing. I wonder if that was your RF tech that commented?
post #21 of 141
1/15/07 at 7:38pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by speco2003 View Post

This set of posts from the PSA site is truely funny. For a bunch of guys who claim to want they purest of sound they seem to hear great changes for the better after doing conversions of CDs. Amazing!That PPP does it all it seems.

Based on logic it's pretty obvious that a burned CD sounds better than a pressed CD in a normal CD player. Timing of data isn't digital, it is analog!
The pits are burned more accurately with a Power Plant and Valhalla power cords, the dye material of the CD-R is important too to get sharp edges of the pits.
I have done it but didn't hear a difference because my Cary 303/300 is like a computer with RAM, I didn't know that. When I bought a thousand dollars worth of CD tweaks I was expecting to hear a difference but didn't hear any at all. I thought I had serious problems with my ears, but later I found a Cary 303/300 review and the reviewer didn't hear a difference either.
post #22 of 141
1/15/07 at 7:40pm
[quote=ValhallaPC]
The pits are burned more accurately with a Power Plant and Valhalla power cords, QUOTE]

Really and what proof of that do you have? And why do not all the mastering houses use them?
post #23 of 141
1/15/07 at 7:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ValhallaPC View Post

The pits are burned more accurately with a Power Plant and Valhalla power cord.


Hahahahahahahahaha! Valhalla, you've outdone yourself just as I thought you couldn't get any more outrageous.
post #24 of 141
1/15/07 at 8:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by speco2003 View Post

Really and what proof of that do you have? And why do not all the mastering houses use them?

You can choose how you want the music to sound like by using different CD-R, CD burners, power conditioners, power cords, vibration isolation feet etc. All of them change how the pits are burned into the CD. It's the timing of the data that decides the final waveform that comes out from the speakers.

I like to keep everything else neutral and change the timing of the sound with Valhalla interconnect instead, it makes the lows and highs sound distinct because of the silver plating. I have compared 78 vs 60 microns silver plating and 60 (Valkyrja) sounded flat, neutral and boring, 78 microns from Valhalla sounded messed up but gave the illusion of greater layering, dynamics and blacker background.

BTW, if you believe in analog interconnects then you must believe in digital interconnects as well. They are all analog signals, there aren't pictures of 0's and 1's floating inside the digital cable... And if you believe in digital cables, then CD tweaks must make a difference if you aren't using computer as transport. So in the end, if you believe amps or sources make a difference, then you must believe in all the CD tweaks, otherwise your logic is flawed.
The only thing skeptics believe in are speakers and nothing else, someone even uses a discman as his source because he doesn't believe in CD players.

If skeptics are using $1000+ audio gear and don't believe in tweaks, then there's a problem...

Here's a CD-R for professional use: http://www.tdk.com.sg/sg/products/au...raudiopro2.php
Quote:


Blind tests carried out with audio experts have proved Audio PRO delivers digital excellence with analogue-style refinement on all types of CD players from high-end high-value systems to car stereos and portable players. Testers reported Audio PRO produced a more natural, dynamic and rounded sound.

Originally conceived for professional studio use, Audio PRO is the perfect media for use by audiophiles with today's top-of-the-range high-end equipment.


http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/w...0ver%203.1.pdf
Quote:


To ensure a stable power supply, I plugged all the computer equipment into a PSAudio Power Plant to ensure that power fluctuations will not affect the writing process. I can't stress how important a proper power supply for the CD burner is. We've tried all sorts of power conditioners, and none of them have worked as well as the Power Plant for the Iomega and Yamaha burners. For the Plextor, I had an audiophile power supply built that made the results sound even better than on the Yamaha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

Hahahahahahahahaha! Valhalla, you've outdone yourself just as I thought you couldn't get any more outrageous.
post #25 of 141
1/15/07 at 8:54pm
I wish I could afford the Valhallas, I should pull a loan out.

Guys, there really is no excuse for poor sound.
post #26 of 141
1/16/07 at 8:15am
Quote:
Based on logic it's pretty obvious that a burned CD sounds better than a pressed CD in a normal CD player.

This is based on YOUR logic, which has no basis in reality...which is proven every time you post.

You should get together with greeniguana....if you're not the same person already.
post #27 of 141
1/16/07 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

This is based on YOUR logic, which has no basis in reality...which is proven every time you post.

You should get together with greeniguana....if you're not the same person already.

It's not him, it's the Valhalla cables. They can make a $1,000 projector look like a $5,000 projector.

I just wish they would make cables for other household objects.
post #28 of 141
1/16/07 at 10:20am
Quote:


I just wish they would make cables for other household objects.

I think monster make a clothes dryer cable.
post #29 of 141
1/16/07 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Targus View Post

I think monster make a clothes dryer cable.

Less wrinkles in the finished product?
post #30 of 141
1/16/07 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curt Palme View Post

Less wrinkles in the finished product?

If the cable was Valhalla it would iron out all the wrinkles for you.
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