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HD Porn replication companies: "Sony threatens to revoke BD license"

post #1 of 115
Thread Starter 
Sony implies that non-porn movies are "better" porn movies, infering that those who do not watch porn are 'better' than those who do. This is clear as and article "AVN: Will Blu-ray walk into the anti-porn trap?" revealed that Sony had threatened to revoke BD licensing from BD replication companies provide replication services to porn studios. Revealing this, Joone from reputable porn studio, Digital Playground even said that: "Sony wants me to publish my films on HD DVD." This situation has caused the first studio defect from BD to HD DVD.

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This is a U-turn for Joone, who at last year's AVN event had declared his support for the Blu-ray Disc format. Asked about his change of attitude by heise online the director responded: "Sony wants me to publish my films on HD DVD." He then went on to explain that he had in fact wanted to publish his movies on Blu-ray Disc, but that all Blu-ray Disc copying facilities in the United States had refused to cooperate.

The companies had unanimously declared that Sony had threatened to withdraw their Blu-ray licenses should they stoop to making HD copies of pornographic films, Joone said.

http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/83552
post #2 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxboi View Post

Sony implies that non-porn movies are "better" porn movies, infering that those who do not watch porn are 'better' than those who do.

Actually, Sony "implies" meaning in their statement, we are the only ones who can "infer" further meaning from their statement.

Never the less, this is pure censorship on the part of Sony and I believe it will ultimately cost them big. The legacies of VHS and SD DVD prove that porn is a major force to be reckoned with, regardless of personal feelings towards it. It is not going to go away, period. By forcing porn producers away from their BD format, Sony is only giving more ammunition to HD DVD.
post #3 of 115
Initially I said that pr0n wouldn't matter in this war, because the pr0n makers would just follow the trends.

Well, maybe it will matter if the Blu-ray side really is doing this type of censoring. Censoring like this is unacceptable.

I really wonder how much truth there is to this though.
post #4 of 115
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

Initially I said that pr0n wouldn't matter in this war, because the pr0n makers would just follow the trends.

Well, maybe it will matter if the Blu-ray side really is doing this type of censoring. Censoring like this is unacceptable.

I really wonder how much truth there is to this though.

if confirmed, this will be an early sign that not only BD will force consumers into "accepting" the format, they will control what you can watch on BD. What next? No anti-establishment contents on BD? Doesnt the US of A has the First Ammendent that outlaws this act of content "censorship"?
post #5 of 115
Here in Europe, porn isn't taboo and people don't care, as long at it complies with the law. But I can understand that it can be a touchy issue in the US.

My suggestion is that Sony and the BDA should meet those guys and let them publish their products in BD like any other movie, and keep their mouths shut about this.
post #6 of 115
I guess we will have to wait to see if Vivid actually does release on Blu-ray soon like they said they would. If they do, then Digital Playground's comments wouldn't seem accurate.
post #7 of 115
Disney/Sony/Fox, etc = censorship. Those guys are all about control. Are and always have.
post #8 of 115
I think we're going to have to see proof before we believe stuff like this. It sounds more to me like "I'm sorry, our replication lines are booked for the next 6-8 months by the studios. We simply don't have any more capacity, and no, I'm sorry we can't sneak you in. We've got games, movies and blanks to press, and we're in the middle of a big push"

Porn has been the lifeblood of home video for 20 years. They're not going to just reject them outright. They WILL however pass them over for their far bigger clients when capacity is the issue.

Quote:


Disney/Sony/Fox, etc = censorship. Those guys are all about control. Are and always have.

And Universal, and Toshiba, and Sega,Nintendo(who were the KINGS of censorship remember, it took Mortal Kombat bombing out on SNES to even start to move them a little bit), Microsoft, and pretty much any media company or corporate conglomerate in any form.
post #9 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickyWoo View Post


And Universal, and Toshiba, and Sega,Nintendo(who were the KINGS of censorship remember, it took Mortal Kombat bombing out on SNES to even start to move them a little bit), Microsoft, and pretty much any media company or corporate conglomerate in any form.

Ture enough.
post #10 of 115
Sony= Big Brother.

Censorship is about as low as you can go. Wait, didn't they say they were also going to include little programs on their BR disks. I wonder what they will do? Remember their cd fiasco! Now with BR they can write a novel on your viewing habits. Of course, they will not let you watch what you want to but hey, it is Sony afterall.

I see WickyWoo is already spinning this to make Sony look good for cencorship. You might get a raise for that!
post #11 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickyWoo View Post

It sounds more to me like "I'm sorry, our replication lines are booked for the next 6-8 months by the studios. We simply don't have any more capacity, and no, I'm sorry we can't sneak you in. We've got games, movies and blanks to press, and we're in the middle of a big push"

If that's the case, then Blu-ray is in bigger trouble than we thought. It'd be pretty bad if at this very early stage of the game, BD production is already maxed out and can't ramp up quickly enough to supply a small company like Digital Playground.
post #12 of 115
I can't imagine that it would be a production issue. As the previous poster said, if they can't supply the (really low) volume that a porn production company might need, how are they going to support the mainstream industry?

That doesn't necessarily make this article true, but since its Sony I'm pretty much willing to believe anything bad about them (which is entirely reasonable; my feelings are based on their prior acts).
post #13 of 115
Quote:


If that's the case, then Blu-ray is in bigger trouble than we thought. It'd be pretty bad if at this very early stage of the game, BD production is already maxed out and can't ramp up quickly enough to supply a small company like Digital Playground

It's not a question of "ramping up". It's a question of having unbooked space on the line, outside of the emergency slots, and the fact that they're going to be nearly doubling their current titles in the next 6 months(give or take)

It still takes time to prep the master, make the stamper, and change all the art out of the production line. How long does that take? Could be 10 minutes for all I know for the changeout. Regardless, the space on the line being booked in his desired production window is a very plausible situation given the current relatively limited capacity.

If you think he's telling the truth, why don't you call the replication facilities like technicolor and inquire about replication of adult films?
post #14 of 115
Ya know I have to touch on the subject of VHS Vs Beta...that was some 20 odd years ago,but there really wasn't much else way to get your porn back then until now,today we have the internet,dvds,pay-per-view,Video On Demand,interactive software,file sharing and on and on...I just don't think it's going to pan out now, the way it did 25 years ago,when we didn't have so many options as we do in 2007.Besides...alot of people don't want HD Porn.
post #15 of 115
Amir stated this was going to happen some months ago. The problem is there are only a few facilities that can do mastering for Blu-ray right now, and they all have policies against Adult Videos.
post #16 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxboi View Post

Doesnt the US of A has the First Ammendent that outlaws this act of content "censorship"?

No, since the First Amendment has no bearing over private companies.
post #17 of 115
Well, the BD movie crank has a family frendliy audio track which to me makes no sence when theirs nudity in the film. So hopfully this does not happen to other films of this type as it just silly..

But, I to did not think porn would play a factor in this war but in the last week I've seen sevral threads showing pepole are ordering it and have questions..
post #18 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxboi View Post

Doesnt the US of A has the First Ammendent that outlaws this act of content "censorship"?

If I own a magazine stand and decide to not stock Maxim magazine... that's my right. If I own a Wal-mart and decide to not stock x-rated movies or dildos or even potato chips, that's my right. And people have the right to go to another establishment where they can buy their Maxim, dildos, and chips. Nothing's been 'censored' here -- it's a free market.

The First Amendment restricts states rights to limit speech and expression (but states have long been permitted to restrict obscene or pornographic expression -- which is open to interpretation). However, none of that applies to this situation. No government entity is involved here.

If Sony/BDA/whatever decides that porn doesn't belong on BD, then porn won't be on BD. Porn connoisseurs can turn to HD DVD, DVD, the Internet, or a varieity of other venues. It's a private business decision, not a constitutional issue.



That being said, I think it's a terrible decision for BD. I agree that porn doesn't have the same sway on the market that it did back in the early days of home video... but it's still a HUGE business. To turn that audience away is very dangerous. If I'm loving the porn and I'm told it's HD DVD or nothing, I'm buying an HD DVD player... and then guess what I'm going to use for mainstream movie viewing as well?
post #19 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickyWoo View Post

It's not a question of "ramping up". It's a question of having unbooked space on the line, outside of the emergency slots, and the fact that they're going to be nearly doubling their current titles in the next 6 months(give or take)

Limited capacity is what I was talking about. If it's limited enough to necessitate excluding a few pr0n titles, that's lame.

For the record, I'm not saying this is the reason either, but I'm pointing out that if what you say is true, that is a pretty big problem for Blu-ray. Indeed, for the sake of Blu-ray, you'd better hope that you're dead wrong.

Quote:


If you think he's telling the truth

I never said that, so stop making things up.

Quote:


why don't you call the replication facilities like technicolor and inquire about replication of adult films?

Why don't you?
post #20 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by WickyWoo View Post

I think we're going to have to see proof before we believe stuff like this.

...although Sony has stated that they will not replicate adult material themselves. No idea whether or not that impacts other Blu-ray replicators, although I got the impression that it would not.

Don May, Jr. of Synapse Films posted the following early last year. Some of what he's posted doesn't appear to be the case anymore (this was back when "BD discs" meant "Sony").

Quote:


With BLU-RAY, the studios MUST deal with Sony... with HD-DVD, any standard DVD replicator can convert to HD-DVD without having to deal with... yeah... SONY! That certainly makes a difference with us at Synapse.

Also, Sony doesn't like to deal with "adult" oriented product. Do you think there are going to be any hardcore/XXX rated BLU-RAY discs? I highly doubt it... that factor alone is going to have a HUGE impact on the format war. Adult movies really drive the home video industry and many claim that, because Sony hesitated to sign the deal for adult films back in the Betamax days (remember they pretty much all came out on VHS?) that that alone killed Sony's Beta format.

When we met with Sony to discuss titles and told them about THRILLER and THE IMAGE and that we wanted to do BLU-RAY discs of those two titles, they pretty much told us they WOULDN'T do them because of their extreme adult content! They were like "umm... well... we don't know if we can do that sort of thing." That attitude may just outright kill the BLU-RAY format. People want adult films... it's a hundreds of millions of dollars a year business... and HD-DVD will have them. It's funny how, when I bring this up (about the adult films), that people say that "they didn't think of that" when discussing which format will prevail.
post #21 of 115
Ask Don May of Synapse. He was told very clearly that Sony would not replicate his films for Blu-ray, because some of them have hardcore content (Thriller, for one), but are absolutely not porn. He posted about this at Mobius early last summer.

Edit: Or, what Adam just said.
post #22 of 115
Adam, do you have a link to the original article?
post #23 of 115
I'm not surprised the post Jlaures basically said the same thing. He challenged anyone on these boards to find him a replicator that would press his adult films.

Now I await Vivids response. Do they deliver movies or will they pull an 11th hour "we've got to deliver on HD DVD"
post #24 of 115
well obviously Sony feels providing replication services for porn vendors would tarnish its image and damage its reputation. I'd agree. Porn may make a lot of money, but families buy Sony stuff. If it got out in the press: "Sony makes discs for new blu-ray hi-def porno movies" that could be a PR disaster.
post #25 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by xboxboi View Post

Sony implies that non-porn movies are "better" porn movies, infering that those who do not watch porn are 'better' than those who do. This is clear as and article "AVN: Will Blu-ray walk into the anti-porn trap?" revealed that Sony had threatened to revoke BD licensing from BD replication companies provide replication services to porn studios. Revealing this, Joone from reputable porn studio, Digital Playground even said that: "Sony wants me to publish my films on HD DVD." This situation has caused the first studio defect from BD to HD DVD.



http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/83552

Finally, someone in this industry discovered what Blu-ray is all about.
post #26 of 115
If true, and is not an issue of Sony being unwilling to use its own replicators to print adult content isnt the bigger issue here that it would appear that Sony can dictate what gets put on the BR format? If BR wins and a few years from now the new Xbox and Nintendo console want to use BR Sony could conceivable say no. Or put enough of a delay to give them an advantage.

How about making future BR discs only play or play at their best with Sony hardware? Or making changes to the format requiring users to buy new hardware (like their memory sticks).

Sony could basically do anything they choose that would benefit them, and them alone. I dont think the ramifications of Sony having this much control are clear at the moment.

Assuming that this is true as reported.
post #27 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckshop View Post

well obviously Sony feels providing replication services for porn vendors would tarnish its image and damage its reputation. I'd agree. Porn may make a lot of money, but families buy Sony stuff. If it got out in the press: "Sony makes discs for new blu-ray hi-def porno movies" that could be a PR disaster.

I don't remember, 10 years ago, anyone reluctant to adopt DVD because of porn.
Also, I don't think I ever found any logo of the replication facility on my DVD copy of Snow White. And even if I check those codes in the center of the disc, I doubt they will tell me anything about that replicator's other contracts...

Only a bunch of puritan nerds would care about such an issue.

Sony and the BDA keep going lower and lower...
post #28 of 115
If true, I think it's dispicable of Sony to try and bully other replicators into shunning porn. Otoh, seeing as how everyone was ramping up production, and how companies like Disney feel about porn, I can believe that there was a sorta "gentlemans agreement" to deemphasize adult features until the format gets off the ground.

As for how important porn is in this day and age to a format...unless a significant amount of porn comes out on either format, then obviously it won't play a large role. If porn starts being a large seller, I doubt the BDA will stand in the way of independent replicators from making them.

Time wil tell...
post #29 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

Adam, do you have a link to the original article?

Post 3 on this thread on the Mobius Home Video Forum.

Also:

Quote:


Sony's pressing facilities will not do anything adult. But, having said that, there are going to be some other pressing facilities that pop up in the next year or so that MAY do adult content on BLU-RAY. At least that's what I am hearing now. Unfortunately, unlike Sony, who is set up right now, these other replicators may not be set up for BLU-RAY replication for quite a few months down the road.

At first, since it was a Sony technology, it was widely believed that every BLU-RAY disc would somehow have to be run through the Sony corporation, but that isn't so true anymore.

Because of issues with the content of THRILLER and THE IMAGE, the fellows at Sony told me, right away, that they could not replicate those for me in either standard defintion DVD (which is why we took our business elsewhere) or in the BLU-RAY format. They just didn't want to do anything adult. It's too much of a risk for them when they deal with major studios, like Disney, etc. But, that being said, that doesn't mean that another company that will be set up for BLU-RAY replication in the coming months WON'T do it.

So, in a way... yeah... at this point in time, since they are the only BLU-RAY option right this moment, Sony IS dictating what content does and doesn't get put onto BLU-RAY... that is... if you are talking adult oriented material.

...again, though, that's from April of last year, so the situation could be different. I'm not in a position to say one way or the other.
post #30 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technicolor View Post

I don't remember, 10 years ago, anyone reluctant to adopt DVD because of porn.
Also, I don't think I ever found any logo of the replication facility on my DVD copy of Snow White. And even if I check those codes in the center of the disc, I doubt they will tell me anything about that replicator's other contracts...

Only a bunch of puritan nerds would care about such an issue.

Sony and the BDA keep going lower and lower...

Oh please. there are TONS of Sony-haters that would love to broadcast to the whole world on their blogs/websites any insignificant error (perceived or real) that Sony makes.

If Sony was to start replicating disks for porn, the headlines on the inquirer, kotaku, joystiq, etc. would be "OMG SONY MAKES HI DEF PORN" or some stupid sensationalized crap like that.
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