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if it wasn't for the PS3 would Blu Ray have a chance? - Page 5

post #121 of 245
1/13/07 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

I'd go with that. Now what if Blu-ray can deliver both content and price?

Universal has just about tapped out their well of greatest hits and they won't be able to magic up any more content unless they can break a BD exclusive studio. Meanwhile, one of the BDA CE companies could well come out with a player to match the Toshiba on prices. How many more Chinese knock-off vendors are out there, again? I'm going where the content is and that's why I have both formats.

The Blu-ray wins by a landslide. However when you look at the BDA and their actions everything is pointing to making money. They're trying to outlast HD DVD so that they can protect whatever margin is left in the players. and software. I logged into IMDB and checked out Universals filmography and there are plenty of movies that I'd personally purchase on HD.

One of the BDA companies could indeed come out with a low cost player and that's what I welcome. The PS3 shouldn't be the only low cost BD player. I don't blame you for going where the content is but I think for my needs there are two different paths to this same content. I'm taking the circuitous route
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post #122 of 245
1/13/07 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

Sony had two prototype G2 players at CES. Why two?

My point with Chinese knock-off vendors admittedly required some inference on a readers part, so I'll spell it out for you: BDA could try to recruit one or two, as well, if low price is all that's needed to win the war. (I think it's much more complicated than that, though).

Every retailer I've seen refuses to give preferential treatment to one side or the other. So far titles are at parity, but this is almost certainly due to change with the announcments at CES. The fact that the vast bulk of HD-DVD's titles for 2007 will also be available on Blu-ray and that Blu-ray will have many titles NOT available on HD-DVD should make this most interesting.

2006 was full of news stories of the problems that Sony was having producing Blu-ray players. It was the major constraint to getting PS3 out on time and even at sufficient numbers to launch. It still hasn't been able to launch for Europe.

Don't you think that if Sony had solved this problem and was able to get a design off to a deep discount manufacturer like HD-DVD did they would be crowing all over the CES show about it? How far out are we from a Blu-ray player that can compete with an Ilo in price?

Its no small feat to get something as cutting edge as hd-dvd this early in the technology out in the sheer massive quantities those chinese manufacturers crank out.
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post #123 of 245
1/13/07 at 4:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

My point with Chinese knock-off vendors admittedly required some inference on a readers part, so I'll spell it out for you: BDA could try to recruit one or two, as well, if low price is all that's needed to win the war.

But BDA won't. Since they think they have already won
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post #124 of 245
1/13/07 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

But BDA won't. Since they think they have already won

Exactly. They think they can win this battle on content alone and not have to gut the margins on the player. Hence Sammy's 2nd gen unit is a mere $200 cheaper than the first generation.

HD DVD progeny on the other hand realizes that getting close to critical mass for players makes it hard for studios to withhold the content. This is such a brilliant battle forming. Grab some popcorn and soda and sit back and enjoy the show. None of us are going to go bankrupt because of this battle.
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post #125 of 245
1/13/07 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

How long does Blu-ray keep exclusive content when it shuts them out of an entire shelf next to the HD-DVD player that is going to blare HD content all over the Walmart Electronics area?

That's funny, because at the local Wal*Mart there's more shelf space given to BD releases than to HD DVD releases. Now sure, they don't sell any BD players (they also don't sell any HD DVD players), but they do sell the PS3 (and the HD DVD add-on for the XBox 360).

As far as cheap BD players go, Sony had two new models on display at CES; I suspect one of them will be cheaper than the other (call me crazy). While I expect BD will ultimately have cheap Chinese players, as long as we continue to get players at steadily dropping prices, I don't see the big deal.
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post #126 of 245
1/13/07 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

How'd you spin that?

It said



They didn't say "using" they said "expected" which kind of denotes delivery. I get a kick out of you Blu-ray fans that refuse to give an inch.

so is it your position we will see chinese hd dvd players for sale in Q2 this year?
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post #127 of 245
1/13/07 at 5:05pm
Yes
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post #128 of 245
1/13/07 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkedgex View Post

That's funny, because at the local Wal*Mart there's more shelf space given to BD releases than to HD DVD releases. Now sure, they don't sell any BD players (they also don't sell any HD DVD players), but they do sell the PS3 (and the HD DVD add-on for the XBox 360).

Whoah, I thought the Ray'd were slamming anecdotal evidence a couple pages back?
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post #129 of 245
1/13/07 at 5:13pm
hmurchinson:

you know, considering the success rate of hd dvd supporters' predicitions, I'm surprised you said yes. But we'll see when the time comes if both you and snickering hound are right, or you guys both pull a TSD2005 and disappear from this board :-)
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post #130 of 245
1/13/07 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckshop View Post

hmurchinson:

you know, considering the success rate of hd dvd supporters' predicitions, I'm surprised you said yes. But we'll see when the time comes if both you and snickering hound are right, or you guys both pull a TSD2005 and disappear from this board :-)

It's a Microsoft/Broadcom press release.

And just when did HD-DVD become unsuccessful?
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post #131 of 245
1/13/07 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

It's a Microsoft/Broadcom press release.

Press releases don't mean a whole lot especially when they're light on details like actual models and release dates. You'll notice all of the BD press releases were heavy on details; actual title names and their respective release dates. The HD DVD group sticks to vague things like "300 titles" (and then Universal goes quiet entirely).

Quote:


And just when did HD-DVD become unsuccessful?

It's been unsuccessful for some time, a few weeks actually. Unless something significant is announced (a BD exclusive studio going neutral, a large catalog of Universal titles announced with dates) I don't see that changing in 2007.
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post #132 of 245
1/13/07 at 6:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew P View Post

You repeat this in every post trying to spin a negative into a postive. The PS3 has not met expectations. That is a simple fact.

You can compare to the 360 launch in which Microsoft sold every unit they could manufacture-Microsoft had major problems making the 360 and the demand was unprecedented which if course you neglect to mention because it does not help your argument.

Sony has done a much better job than Microsoft at ramping up manufacturing the PS3, but the fact is that there is more supply than demand. People are not buying the consoles and it should not come as no surprise because the console is overpriced for the mass market.

Andrew, a year from now I'll be happy to dicuss it with you; right now it's just tedious though. Yeah you're right Mirosoft's demand outstripped supply. But as their supplies ramped up, their sales didn't. You realize that right? The only big break-out was in the last three months or so. Where does that it into your sell-through modeling?

PS3 has every opportunity to match what the 360 did in salesas the months tick by; meeting expections, not meeting expectations... you can talk about it all you like, but in the end the raw number comparisons are all that's going to matter.
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post #133 of 245
1/13/07 at 6:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

But BDA won't. Since they think they have already won

There're a lot of formerly HD DVD-only members of this forum that seem to think so to. At least, according to some threads I've seen.
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post #134 of 245
1/13/07 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

It's a Microsoft/Broadcom press release.

And just when did HD-DVD become unsuccessful?

Just remember, you predicted that the titles annouced for BD at CES weren't going to ship this year. And that we'll see chinese players at walmart by Q2 this year. seems like TSD2005 all over again LOL
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post #135 of 245
1/13/07 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

There's a lot of formerly HD DVD-only members of this forum that seem to think so to. At least, according to some threads I've seen.

It's amazing that AVS enthusiasts haven't gone neutral even faster. However I'd be remiss to assume that the avg consumer will put up with both formats so willingly. This isn't everyones hobby.
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post #136 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkedgex View Post

It's been unsuccessful for some time, a few weeks actually.


You have no idea what you are talking about...you sound like a Sony plant.
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post #137 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckshop View Post

Just remember, you predicted that the titles annouced for BD at CES weren't going to ship this year. And that we'll see chinese players at walmart by Q2 this year. seems like TSD2005 all over again LOL

I don't believe Sony press releases. After 2006, I'm hardly alone in this. You don't believe Microsoft. So what?

And I asked you if you have any data contrary to Microsoft's announcement. You have yet to provide any.

Anything else?
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post #138 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

And I asked you if you have any data contrary to Microsoft's announcement. You have yet to provide any.

Do you have any data supporting it?

What's the point of engaging in a discussion where you flat refuse to "believe" the PR of one side, only to ask for evidence that the PR from 'your' side is incorrect?

Why don't we all decide to either take both at face value, or toss both and use different criteria.

When you see Pirates on BD, you'll know it's real.

When I see a Lite-On HD DVD player, I'll know it's real.
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post #139 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

Do you have any data supporting it?

What's the point of engaging in a discussion where you flat refuse to "believe" the PR of one side, only to ask for evidence that the PR from 'your' side is incorrect?

Why don't we all decide to either take both at face value, or toss both and use different criteria.

When you see Pirates on BD, you'll know it's real.

When I see a Lite-On HD DVD player, I'll know it's real.

wreckshop challenged the Microsoft Press release. He actually got a direct response from Amir:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0&page=3&pp=30

He still chooses not to believe it or Amir and offers no data to the contrary.

We could get Bill Gates himself here to respond and he still won't believe it.

And no, I won't agree to disagree
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post #140 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:33pm
I don't see what the Meridien thing has to do with these Chinese manufacturers.

I have no doubt that MS does indeed have plans with both (the manufacturers and Meridien). I'm not a cynical person. But agreements today doesn't mean products tomorrow. I could write a post a mile long illustrating strategic agreements and partnerships in this indutry (actually *all* industries) that never came to fruition.

At CES, it is the *norm* for prototypes of forthcoming products to be shown. It's very rare to make an announcement without some sort of something to put in front of the crowds face. But thus far, there are no prototypes to display for said Meridien or Chinese HD DVD players. They are at an early stage in the product pipeline; we need to wait and see what happens.
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post #141 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

I don't see what the Meridien thing has to do with these Chinese manufacturers.

I have no doubt that MS does indeed have plans with both (the manufacturers and Meridien). I'm not a cynical person. But agreements today doesn't mean products tomorrow. I could write a post a mile long illustrating strategic agreements and partnerships in this indutry (actually *all* industries) that never came to fruition.

At CES, it is the *norm* for prototypes of forthcoming products to be shown. It's very rare to make an announcement without some sort of something to put in front of the crowds face. But thus far, there are no prototypes to display for said Meridien or Chinese HD DVD players. They are at an early stage in the product pipeline; we need to wait and see what happens.

It is Meridian not Meridien.....how does that taste?
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post #142 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

I don't see what the Meridien thing has to do with these Chinese manufacturers.

I have no doubt that MS does indeed have plans with both (the manufacturers and Meridien). I'm not a cynical person. But agreements today doesn't mean products tomorrow. I could write a post a mile long illustrating strategic agreements and partnerships in this indutry (actually *all* industries) that never came to fruition.

At CES, it is the *norm* for prototypes of forthcoming products to be shown. It's very rare to make an announcement without some sort of something to put in front of the crowds face. But thus far, there are no prototypes to display for said Meridien or Chinese HD DVD players. They are at an early stage in the product pipeline; we need to wait and see what happens.

Yes, its normal to go to a hardware show and have as your cornerstone waving around an announcement of proposed release dates for software.

Wait, thats Blu-ray.
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post #143 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deez View Post

It is Meridian not Meridien.....how does that taste?

I could really care less how it's spelled.

(Now, is that all you had to say about my post?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

Yes, its normal to go to a hardware show and have as your cornerstone waving around an announcement of proposed release dates for software.

Wait, thats Blu-ray.

Uh, right, I agree. You see, you're making exactly my point. Which is... let's just wait for actual releases. I'm not saying BD's announcements have any more validity than HD DVDs; I'm just saying they don't have any less either. Seriously, what about this do you not want to agree with?
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post #144 of 245
1/13/07 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

I could really care less how it's spelled.

(Now, is that all you had to say about my post?)



Uh, right, I agree. You see, you're making exactly my point. Which is... let's just wait for actual releases. I'm not saying BD's announcements have any more validity than HD DVDs; I'm just saying they don't have any less either. Seriously, what about this do you not want to agree with?

At this point I don't believe the Ray'd would actually see the discount players in the stores in plain sight.

They certainly deny any other kind of hard data.
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post #145 of 245
1/13/07 at 9:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deez View Post

You have no idea what you are talking about...you sound like a Sony plant.

Blu-ray Disc has more installed players. Blu-ray Disc software sales have overtaken HD DVD sales (and show no sign of slowing down). Blu-ray Disc exclusive studios have announced hard dates for a number of big titles, with the promise of more throughout '07.

HD DVD has... vague ideas of Chinese manufactured players but no firm dates. OH, and don't forget the über-expensive Meridian player, that's sure to have big effects on the format war. And all those exclusive titles Universal didn't announce at CES.

Did I miss anything?

And no, I'm not a Sony plant; any more than you're a Toshiba plant.
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post #146 of 245
1/13/07 at 11:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkedgex View Post

Blu-ray Disc has more installed players. Blu-ray Disc software sales have overtaken HD DVD sales (and show no sign of slowing down). Blu-ray Disc exclusive studios have announced hard dates for a number of big titles, with the promise of more throughout '07.

HD DVD has... vague ideas of Chinese manufactured players but no firm dates. OH, and don't forget the über-expensive Meridian player, that's sure to have big effects on the format war. And all those exclusive titles Universal didn't announce at CES.

Did I miss anything?

And no, I'm not a Sony plant; any more than you're a Toshiba plant.

LOL...I like how you bd fanboys spew the same stuff that was spewed at CES with no hard numbers to back-up your claims....especially on the software side....
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post #147 of 245
1/14/07 at 12:00am
My god... someone actually believed all of the 'facts' that Sony, Fox, and the BDA deficated at the CES.
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post #148 of 245
1/14/07 at 12:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkedgex View Post

Blu-ray Disc has more installed players. Blu-ray Disc software sales have overtaken HD DVD sales (and show no sign of slowing down). Blu-ray Disc exclusive studios have announced hard dates for a number of big titles, with the promise of more throughout '07.

HD DVD has... vague ideas of Chinese manufactured players but no firm dates. OH, and don't forget the über-expensive Meridian player, that's sure to have big effects on the format war. And all those exclusive titles Universal didn't announce at CES.

Did I miss anything?

And no, I'm not a Sony plant; any more than you're a Toshiba plant.

Wow! I guess it really is true. There is one born every minute.
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post #149 of 245
1/14/07 at 1:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xbdestroya View Post

At CES, it is the *norm* for prototypes of forthcoming products to be shown. It's very rare to make an announcement without some sort of something to put in front of the crowds face. But thus far, there are no prototypes to display for said Meridien or Chinese HD DVD players.

They could have produced an empty case and pretended like it was providing the picture when the actual picture was produced by something behind the curtain.

Oops, that's already been done
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post #150 of 245
1/14/07 at 5:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

My god... someone actually believed all of the 'facts' that Sony, Fox, and the BDA deficated at the CES.

Well if Sony, Fox, and the BDA announced it than it must be true. The format war is over.
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