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Which picture has better quality?

post #1 of 61
Thread Starter 
These bottom 2 are supernatural in HD: One on the lcd and one on the new 30" LG HDTV

Gateway FPD2185W LCD HDTV



LG CRT HDTV



I have 2 pictures taken from 2 different TVs. I would like to know which one you believe has better the better picture quality! They both have bars on top and the sides if you wondering what those blueish gray things are in the pictures.Hope the pictures aregood enough! Bothwere taken with thesame camera andthe same lighting conditions and with the same source! Thanks yall

New images added. These were done on UHD channel and the broadcast is in hd as there was no bars on the hd screen in any mode be it normal mode or stretched etc... The bars you see for one fo the pics is the sd tv one on the one without bars is the gateway lcd. My room is a mess from having to replug the wires back in etc... They are tightly in and also I am now using a high end component wire instead of the one that came with the hd dvr! I hope this helps shine some light a little more.

Now in the HD screen the text does look sharper than the jvc 20" sd tv. However the colors are much more real. The light on the left side for ex. is redish orange on the sd tv and a fady yellowish while on the hd screen. Once again though text look better on the hd screen. Both screens checked out at its best optimal colaborations. If you focus your eyes enough on the detail fo the black, you will see one is slightly blury but solid and the other is blury, grainy, and box liked shaped. I hope these pics were good enough. Thanks!











LL
LL
post #2 of 61
Thread Starter 


post #3 of 61
the top one
post #4 of 61
Thread Starter 
thanks formula. Can you tell me what you notice about the two that would be pros and cons please. Thanks for the reply.
post #5 of 61
Looks like those shots were taken with a cellphone ... not very good compare material , but from what im seeing the top one appears sharper with better contrast as well.
post #6 of 61
Thread Starter 
while i wish i currently had a better cam to take the pics with, they both were treated the same this way we can compare the two as best we can even though the camera sucks. Guess its time for a better camera
post #7 of 61
Both images could be from the same tv. The top image could easily just have scan velocity modulation and sharpness all the way up, while the other could have both turned off.

Regardless, you need a better camera.
post #8 of 61
No, the blacks and colors are much better in the top shot.
post #9 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by justsc View Post

Both images could be from the same tv. The top image could easily just have scan velocity modulation and sharpness all the way up, while the other could have both turned off.

Regardless, you need a better camera.


i promise you this was taken form 2 different TVs and both had been collaberated to the best of its ability! THIS IS NOT A TRICK QUESTION! Nor am I trying to trick anyone in ANY way. Same camera, source, cables, scene, lighting etc.... Also why the camera may be crappythey are more than enough to tell the difference in both pictures. Especially since both tvs were treated in the same exact way.
post #10 of 61
the top is a CRT and the bottom is a LCD or Plasma maybe a rear projection CRT or other type of RPTV

the bottom looks like it is croped and missing some of the sides more the right than the left either that or it is because it is on a widescreen TV and in the picture the sides are just missing the words TEXT on the screen is in the same place but it looks more wider and like straighter ish

I would have to say it looks like the topis a CRT SDTV and the bottom is some newer HDTV playing SD content and it could be the top is extra sharp and the bottom is sorta blured
post #11 of 61
Thread Starter 
one is an SD CRT and the other is an HDTV LCD. However they both are HD Content! One playing HD picture on an sd screen and one on an HD screen! The picture looks like it was zoomed in the bottom one cause i need to come closer to get a BETTER picture. From too far it would be a little blurry! So zooming in was the best picture I can get. Its kwl how you knew one was an lcd and the other was an sd crt!
post #12 of 61
Thread Starter 
anyone else?
post #13 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerrulez View Post

........... However they both are HD Content! One playing HD picture on an sd screen and one on an HD screen!......

AFAIK, HD content cannot actually be viewed on a sd screen. When HD content, in the form of a DT channel for example, is applied to an SD set, it must be downconverted for display. Either prior to input or via a scaler in the set. It would no longer be HD at that point.
post #14 of 61
Thread Starter 
thats nice to know but they both are from "HD Sources". One is down regulated to SD and one is in Actual HD! Now wouldnt that mean that the HD set with the HD picture have better picture quality then the one that was down regulated to SD?
post #15 of 61
my opinion.........something isn't right there. that text on the HD screen should be CRYSTAL CLEAR if it was coming from an HD broadcast or HD source.

are you sure the signal that was coming in to the lcd was HD? cuz i could see the lcd set looking worse with a SD signal, but not the other way around.

and like the poster above said, i don't believe that an SD tv can ever pick up an HD signal.

my 2 cents.
post #16 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerrulez View Post

.......They both have bars on top and the sides if you wondering what those blueish gray things are in the pictures.........

Quote:
Originally Posted by homerrulez View Post

....... Now wouldnt that mean that the HD set with the HD picture have better picture quality then the one that was down regulated to SD?.........

The first statement leads me to believe the content is not real HD but SD upconverted to HD format. This would certainly have an impact on how good it looks on an HD display. I tend to believe that this comparison is biased toward proving the point that the sd crt looks better than the lcd hd. What was the source and how was it connected to the two sets?
post #17 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd424 View Post

my opinion.........something isn't right there. that text on the HD screen should be CRYSTAL CLEAR if it was coming from an HD broadcast or HD source.

are you sure the signal that was coming in to the lcd was HD? cuz i could see the lcd set looking worse with a SD signal, but not the other way around.

and like the poster above said, i don't believe that an SD tv can ever pick up an HD signal.

my 2 cents.


ofcourse something isnt right. I dont lieso either accept the truthor dont. SDTVs dont play HD content? Well they do cause the show there is in HDand it was visable to watch on my sd tv. Maybe it downconverted it or what ever itdoes but it played on the tv. Yes the LCD IS HDTV and its 1080i and 720p. Its an HD video cause it was an HD broadcast which I usually watch. I will bet thehouse on it. The video shown was in HD and the lcd IS HD. Nothing fishy here. Take it for what it worth. I AM TRYING TO MAKE A TRUE COMPARISON HERE SO WHY WOULD I CHOSE ANYTHING DIFFERENT?

They both were taken with the same camera as well so no matter what cam you use its still going to show the top picture as being better! The reason why I took those pictures was to prove how bad lcds can be and how bad mine is. I wasnt trying to favor one over the other in ANY which way. I treated them as best I can and as equaly as can be. Which is why i took the pics and showed them here. To have you judge for yourself. The LCD I am using is gateway FPD2185W. If you think the representation of colors and such are bad, just wait until I get a video camera to show you the video on this. DVDs are good on the SD TV but OK on the hdtv. Gaming on this LCD makes games look shimmery along with videos. I took my viewsonic which is extremely used and it still plays fear better than this LCD.

Someone here pointed out that he had this same LCD and called me on the subject that I was some kind of liar and didnt know what i was talking about. While I dont know much about video, I have a good eye for these things. I can point out dead pixels/stuck pixels from a mile away along with anyother flaws. I may not know what these flaws are called and I suck at explaining it but I know what I see and itaint pretty! So what i did was try and prove of what I was talking about. The grainy look of images and such on the screen,the lack of color depth in the videos. You think thats bad, when I watch some content on this LCD,I get rainbow like effect with people in motion on some of the shows I watch on it (IN HD).

I just wanted all of you to be the judge as well. I really dislike it when I get reviews that specify how great things are when in fact they arent. So what I did wasgive a review of my own. We all havedifferent taste, I get that. One persons like is another dislike. However the facts are shown here, true as they may be. While im new here anddont havemuch basis, I do intendon becoming a constant around these forums fora while. Im not here to cause any issues orto post things of lies and leavenever to be seen again. Take my words (and images) for what they are and for whats its worth.
post #18 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

The first statement leads me to believe the content is not real HD but SD upconverted to HD format. This would certainly have an impact on how good it looks on an HD display. I tend to believe that this comparison is biased toward proving the point that the sd crt looks better than the lcd hd. What was the source and how was it connected to the two sets?


hd dvr cable box connected via component to the hdtv and RCA cable to the sd tv. It was an hd broadcast which I get bars on the top of the sd tv cause thats just what it does on HD signals on the sd tv. The same with the HDTV cause it has to be changed in theoptions to stretch it out, fit to screen etc..... But the content is HD, I promise you that. While I am biased, that doesnt change the fact that one picture is better than the other. What else do I need to do!
post #19 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerrulez View Post

..........SDTVs dont play HD content? Well they do cause the show there is in HDand it was visable to watch on my sd tv. Maybe it downconverted it or what ever it does but it played on the tv. Yes the LCD IS HDTV and its 1080i and 720p. Its an HD video cause it was an HD broadcast which I usually watch. I will bet thehouse on it. The video shown was in HD and the lcd IS HD. Nothing fishy here. Take it for what it worth. I AM TRYING TO MAKE A TRUE COMPARISON HERE SO WHY WOULD I CHOSE ANYTHING DIFFERENT?.

Explain this "HD video" you used as a source. How did you record and playback the HD broadcast? An HD DVR, DVHS, DVD recorder, VHS tape? How was this video input to the HD set? RF, composite, s-video, component, DVI, HDMI?

You stated in your first post that both tvs had bars on the top and the sides. If this was the case, then I don't see how the HD set was receiving a true (not upconverted SD) HD source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homerrulez View Post

......... The reason why I took those pictures was to prove how bad lcds can be and how bad mine is. I wasnt trying to favor one over the other in ANY which way. I treated them as best I can and as equaly as can be. Which is why i took the pics and showed them here. To have you judge for yourself. .............

As I said, a biased test. The comparison is very difficult without a clear understanding of the conditions. You state that you were comparing HD on an HD set to HD on an SD set. I believe you were comparing SD on an HD set to SD on an SD set. Completely different comparison, IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homerrulez View Post

......... While I dont know much about video .............

My concern, and this is not a jab, is that you are confused about what your comparison actually represents.
post #20 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerrulez View Post

hd dvr cable box connected via component to the hdtv and RCA cable to the sd tv. It was an hd broadcast which I get bars on the top of the sd tv cause thats just what it does on HD signals on the sd tv. The same with the HDTV cause it has to be changed in theoptions to stretch it out, fit to screen etc..... But the content is HD, I promise you that. While I am biased, that doesnt change the fact that one picture is better than the other. What else do I need to do!

Sorry, it looks like we posted at the time. Except for a few exceptions, if 1080i or 720p video has to be stretched to get rid of horizontal bars and vertical pillars on a 16:9 screen then it is upconverted SD. Never was and still isn't HD after upconversion. The other possiblility is that your cable stb component output is setup for SD output.

I'm not arguing that the photograph of the HD set looks better. It doesn't. However, I believe your test was flawed.

BTW, which hd dvr are you using?
post #21 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

Sorry, it looks like we posted at the time. Except for a few exceptions, if 1080i or 720p video has to be stretched to get rid of horizontal bars and vertical pillars on a 16:9 screen then it is upconverted SD. Never was and still isn't HD after upconversion. The other possiblility is that your cable stb component output is setup for SD output.

I'm not arguing that the photograph of the HD set looks better. It doesn't. However, I believe your test was flawed.

BTW, which hd dvr are you using?

scientific atlanta 8300hd. Its a HD broadcast cause its on an HD channel and I have viewed it on other TV (HDTV plasma (at my brother inlaws house and rear projection samsung tv at a restaurant in brooklyn). They both look pretty good and def better than my sd tv. So why would the same show on the same hd broadcast (not sd upconverted) look worse on my LCD? Maybe I got a bad batch and others got a great one, who knows for certain as I have not seen it on any other lcd out there including a comparison of another fpd2185w. Just to reiterate the show broadcasts in HD so it def is HD. You know what though, take that HD picture out of this discussion and lets talk about other issues with this lcd.

The screen has unreal lighted colors compared to my viewsonic. Greens, blues, purples, blacks, reds and maybe a few i am missing look like less rich on the lcd. I get some minimal but noticable rainbowing effect on white screens and some videos including that show. Fear plays pretty bad on it with shimmering lines going up and down. Same goes for madden. Video looks a little blurry and smudgy. Images while they look sharp along with text, the colors on it can be dull. This is the best i can display the issues I get with my screen. Keep in mind while I am "BIASED" I gave this LCD a chance and bought it knowingat least enough to know they sucked from some knowledge and experience (had a15" lcd 5 or so years ago).
post #22 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by homerrulez View Post

scientific atlanta 8300hd. Its a HD broadcast cause its on an HD channel and I have viewed it on other TV (HDTV plasma (at my brother inlaws house and rear projection samsung tv at a restaurant in brooklyn). They both look pretty good and def better than my sd tv. So why would the same show on the same hd broadcast (not sd upconverted) look worse on my LCD? Maybe I got a bad batch and others got a great one, who knows for certain as I have not seen it on any other lcd out there including a comparison of another fpd2185w. Just to reiterate the show broadcasts in HD so it def is HD. You know what though, take that HD picture out of this discussion and lets talk about other issues with this lcd..........

Sorry, but I don't know how to setup your SA8300hd correctly. Just because a broadcast is on an "HD" channel DOES NOT mean it is true HD video. There is a LOT of upconverted SD on "HD" channels. AFAIK, if you are feeding a recorded, 1080i (non-upconverted) HD broadcast to a 16:9 monitor, you SHOULDN'T have bars or pillars. In addition, if you don't setup your stb to output hd resolutions(1080i or 720p) for hd channels, you don't get hd as an input to your monitor.

When you say "the same show on the same hd broadcast", are you saying that you physically took your sa8300hd and connected it via component(red,green,blue) cables to these other tvs and watched the same recording? Probably not. Therefore, the difference could very well be your stb setup. Have you checked your setup?

Sorry, this is the DirectView forum. I am not interested in discussing the shortcomings of your lcd. This thread is only appropriate here because of your initial comparison to crt quality.
post #23 of 61
top on looks better because a CRT is a better TV weither it is a SD ED or HDTV a crt still looks much better than another other type of tv

first of all the show looks like some crap from the 80's or maybe even the 70's and unless it was properly scaned into HD it was upconverted from a SD source

I think there is something wrong here try it with a real HD source like Discovery HD or INHD something like that then look at them and I bet the CRT still looks better well better colors and dark scenes but the LCD wont look as bad

also a LCD is a fixed resolution and a CRT isn't
post #24 of 61
The "HD" test content in question here is a show called 'Bright Promise'. It ran from 1969-1972 and is most definitely NOT an HDTV broadcast. That's a nice little point you tried to prove, but I seriously doubt you even have an LCD seeing as you hate them so much.

And if the show isn't Bright Promise, then it's a very old episode of General Hospital. Those are the only 2 shows created by Frank & Doris Hursley(thank you imdb.com).

The AVS forum is the wrong place to try and pull this juvenile crap, even though CRT's are better.
post #25 of 61
oh, and by the way, you should be more careful when forging your "evidence". I can still see the freakin blue bar on the bottom of the "LCD screen". What did you do? Just lower the contrast/color and raise the brightness on your Viewsonic?
post #26 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugiot View Post

The "HD" test content in question here is a show called 'Bright Promise'. It ran from 1969-1972 and is most definitely NOT an HDTV broadcast. That's a nice little point you tried to prove, but I seriously doubt you even have an LCD seeing as you hate them so much.

And if the show isn't Bright Promise, then it's a very old episode of General Hospital. Those are the only 2 shows created by Frank & Doris Hursley(thank you imdb.com).

The AVS forum is the wrong place to try and pull this juvenile crap, even though CRT's are better.


its not bright promise and it was recorded by the studio in end of 06. But I "Promise you that your ill manered research didnt go to waist. You after all learned a useless factoid that has nothing to do with this thread! Also the person in the picture wasnt even born in 69 or in 72.
post #27 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii View Post

Sorry, but I don't know how to setup your SA8300hd correctly. Just because a broadcast is on an "HD" channel DOES NOT mean it is true HD video. There is a LOT of upconverted SD on "HD" channels. AFAIK, if you are feeding a recorded, 1080i (non-upconverted) HD broadcast to a 16:9 monitor, you SHOULDN'T have bars or pillars. In addition, if you don't setup your stb to output hd resolutions(1080i or 720p) for hd channels, you don't get hd as an input to your monitor.

When you say "the same show on the same hd broadcast", are you saying that you physically took your sa8300hd and connected it via component(red,green,blue) cables to these other tvs and watched the same recording? Probably not. Therefore, the difference could very well be your stb setup. Have you checked your setup?

Sorry, this is the DirectView forum. I am not interested in discussing the shortcomings of your lcd. This thread is only appropriate here because of your initial comparison to crt quality.

you might be right about it being my cable box since the original one i had went bonkers and this was a replacement, possibly a refurb. However even if it is the box which im thinking now it could be or maybe the settings are the issue here. When I find the manual for it, I will recheck the settings or when IO opens I will call them for some assistance. Anyways while the computer is pluged in to the gateway via dvi I still experience similar issues witht eh video. Grainy look, slight smudgy/blury look and the gaming on this monitor compared to my viewsonic is night and day. No shimmer issues with the viewsonic or ghosting effect. And the colors are richer and dont have that light tint look (looks faded).
post #28 of 61
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugiot View Post

oh, and by the way, you should be more careful when forging your "evidence". I can still see the freakin blue bar on the bottom of the "LCD screen". What did you do? Just lower the contrast/color and raise the brightness on your Viewsonic?

both are colaborated to the best of its ability. I even stated that both had the bars in it so I wasnt hiding it. The reason why its zoomed in is cause its too blury from a far. The pictures were not edited and the contrast and brightness on both the SD tv and the HDTV are at its best optimal colaborated settings. You think I havent tried colaborating this monitor so I can live with spending the money i did on it? And bTW i do have the LCD monitor. I after all gave this lcd a chance. It would be my second time i went out and bought an lcd. Once 5 plus years ago (aprox.) and one a months or so back. The only reason why i would say I am biased is cause of experience of both crts and lcds. Clearly I have learned from owning both that LCDs are weaker in many more ways than the crt is. I have come to dislike LCDs and im not running from it. That doesnt mean that my views were made out of bias however. They werent cause I made sure i treated this lcd like ti was a treasure. What freakin idiot would go out of thier way to knock a $500+ LCD unless they have reason to? I exhausted many efforts to make this lcd look as best as it can be. Im not going to spend my money on something for the simple point of just knocking it around. Thats just plain stupid! Believe what you want but just cause you belive it, doesnt make it TRUE!

edit: The viewsonic was used to compare it being conected to the pc. The comparson via HDTV and SDTV is from an SD TV, not viewsonic!
post #29 of 61
Thread Starter 
pictures added!
post #30 of 61
What's "colaborated"?
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