Color HCFR Calibration Discussion (Post your calibration files here) - Page 102

I don't know if rec. 709 applies to computers in the sense of high definition. Be that as it may, unless sRBG is assumed to be the same as rec. 709 for computers in HCFR, there is a bug.

EDIT: It appears that the color space for sRGB is indeed the same as rec. 709.

EDIT2: "sRGB uses the ITU-R BT.709-5 primaries, the same as are used in studio monitors and HDTV,[1] and a transfer function (gamma curve) typical of CRTs." -- Wikipedia.

Larry

Is there a way to set custom white points in HCFR. I see a few preset options, but I want to set it @ a custom point like 6900k but don't see a way to do that.

Thanks.

I'm at work and don't have my Color HCFR calibration files, but here's my issue. I have a Mitsubishi 73734 DLP rear projection display being fed HDMI from an OPPO BDP-83 bluray player. My greyscale and gamma are good. My dE for red, blue, majenta, and cyan are all < 3. My dE for blue and yellow are at 8. I can't get the blue to the CIE reference pt because it's undersaturated. I can't get yellow to reference because it's oversaturated. The Mitsubishi has PerfectColor and PerfectTint contols which control color brightness and hue, but there are no saturation controls. I've adjusted service menu settings primarily to get greyscale optimized. Looking back at cid67's calibration, he managed to hit all the CIE ref pts, and he has a similar display model without saturation control. I noticed he had adjusted his main Tint and Color controls,but I've left mine at their native settings. I messed around a little bit with these controls, but it didn't seem to help my blue and yellow issues. So my question is: Is this the best I can do given the limitation of my display's CMS? Or are there other tricks to try to adjust saturation of yellow and blue? By the way, the displays images are looking great. Thanks for any and all advice.

saturation controls are red SRL, Green SGL, blue SBL, etc, etc. the second letter of the abbreviation represents the first letter of the color in question. The first letter represents the first letter in saturation. The final letter represents the first letter of the color mode you are in, namely high color or low color.

Thanks cid67,

That answers my question. Your set's CMS is more robust than my set. My Mits service menu looks like this:
1. Hpos 6
2. Vpos 65533
3. Ggh 935
4. Grh 904
5. Gbh 1024
6. Ggl 1020
7. Grl 1050
8. Gbl 915
9. Cca 0
10. Xrh 0
11. Yrh 0
12. Grh 0
13. Xgh 0
14. Ygh 0
15. Ggh 0
16. Xbh 0
17. Ybh 0
18. Gbh 0
19. Xch 0
20. Ych 0
21. Gch 0
22. Xmh 0
23. Ymh 0
24. Gmh 0
25. Xyh 0
26. Yyh 0
27. Gyh 0
28. Xwh 0
29. Ywh 0
30. Gwh 0
31. Xrl 0
32. Yrl 0
33. Grl 0
34. Xgl 0
35. Ygl 0
36. Ggl 0
37. Xbl 0
38. Ybl 0
39. Gbl 0
40. Xcl 0
41. Ycl 0
42. Gcl 0
43. Xml 0
44. Yml 0
45. Gml 0
46. Xyl 0
47. Yyl 0
48. Gyl 0
49. Xwl 0
50. Ywl 0
51. Gwl 0
52. Bmg 0
53. Bmr 0
54. Bmb 0
55. Ofg 0
56. Ofr 0
57. Ofb 0
58. Cmg 100
59. Cmr 100
60. Cmb 100
61. Idl 54
62. Dbk 1

and 10 through 48 are disabled. So, I don't have the discrete saturation contols in the service menu. I'm actually very happy with how the set looks now. I previously had adjusted it by eye using PerfectColor and PerfectTint, but the colors are much more accurate using the x-rite Display2 and HCFR software. Also, my greyscale was way out of whack before making changes in the service menu (3 thru 8, and 52- 60 give some control over gamma and greyscale). I think I've done all I can given the limitation of my sets CMS. Thanks for your PM cid67.

Have you tried turning on CCA to see if that enables the CMS (10-48)?

I would like to bump this message and ditto the question. I have also seen a gradual decrease in Y over time using AVS HD 709 with a PS3. I was using an eye-one display LT. I have not tried a different disk yet but will be giving that a try. Any other input on this one would be appreciated.

Are the window sizes the same between discs? I believe the gradually dropping Y reading is due to temp drift that occurs when the screen gets hotter the longer a bright pattern is on-screen. A smaller window size may reduce this effect, perhaps.

The eye-one display LT and spyder 2/3 are not temp compensated and that's why care must be taken with Plasmas.

The CMS settings listed in my post above are not my settings, I copied them from another post from someone that has the same set as mine, just to demonstrate the options in my set's CMS. My CCA=1, or on.

My latest calibration at about 2,100 hrs. No red push this time, see .xls file.

 

Color_PZ80U_10-13-09.zip 1.0595703125k . file

 

Gamut, Saturation, Brightness, dE Chart.zip 390.283203125k . file

Yah, I had a wd-65732 that didn't have a operative CMS aether. Sorry about your luck.

Looks nice.
Not really related, but...
In HCFR, I'm able to enter your new calculated targets in a new window, and use that window as a reference to display on the CIE chart... it then adds lines to the measures tab to show dE calculated vs that new reference... BUT... it doesn't add a line for dL to that new reference... anyone know how to get that? Or does it need to be a suggestion for next rev?

Here are my pre/post ISF calibration for a Samsung LN52B750.

 

(HDMI)pre.pdf 399.787109375k . file

 

(HDMI)post.pdf 392.9609375k . file

Why are the color dE's so high? Was the CMS used? Something doesn't seem right...

Its not terrible, but not the best either. I calibrated one of these displays for a friend of mine and got better results.

I'm pretty shocked by the high dE's since I read the CNET review for the B750 and they never complained about the color gamut nor the color decoding. From the post cal report, it appears the color decoding is quite off. Maybe 'Movie' mode was not used?

Its definitely movie mode, or the gamma curve would have been even worse. The dE for blue is certainly higher and I'm guessing this calibrator left the CMS alone.

My set (5020) has dE' of 18 for green and red. dE of 11 isn't as bad as you would think.

Is this CIELUV, CIELAB, or CIE94? I'm guessing it's definitely not CIE94.

cie94

Did another calibration last night (was losing confidence in my Eye-one LT) I warmed everything up for an hour before starting including the LT. I dialed the greyscale in pretty flat using my Lumagen, but the gamma is still only at an average of 2.0. I didn't put up my 'Tent' and other room treatments, so my room is quite light. Will this effect gamma due to the reflections coming back to the screen (I know I should have setup to my usual viewing environment, but it was meant to be a quick check and I got carried away ).

Attached my nineth attempt with some considerable 'cuts' in Luma at IRE points 40 to 70 (in the HDQ), HD350 gamma set to Custom 1 default values 2.2. I can't get the HFCR file to load so just a jpg of the luminance curve for now.

I am trying to calibrate a Sony KDS-60A2000 SXRD RPTV. I am uncertain as to which Gamma Calculation to be using. The options I see in HCFR are:

1. Display Gamma
2. Display Gamma with Black Compensation
3. Camera Gamma (Standard Offset)
4. Camera Gamma, Manual Offset
5. Optimized (regression)

Your feedback would be appreciated. If you can explain the differences that would be helpful too. Thanks!

from what I can tell the major issue is luminance. Dialing in the luminance for the primary and secondary colors should help delta e dramatically. It also looks like DE 76 was used. a color management system should be calibrated using DE 94. This will make a difference. Unfortunately most sets don't have a full color management system so its entirely possible that there simply wasn't a proper control to effect change in luminance although based on the pre calibration I would say there is a color management system on this set.

Here are the settings on the TV. Let me know what you guys think. I don't know to much about all this. Thanks!

 

Samsung LN52B750 TV Settings.pdf 191.17578125k . file

Gamma just relates how the measured Y values change across the grayscale, and display gamma is how gamma is usually discussed. The compensation option starts from the measured Y for black, rather than zero. If black measures zero then #1 and #2 are identical, but your TV will probably measure with some light output at black. Anyway the default #2 probably makes sense for most situations, including your TV.

Hello,

Is there a way to see the DeltaE for primaries and secondaries, when in free measure mode?

Thank you.

Pitou!

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post17331022

Note: haven't tried secondaries yet, it may or may not work.

It works fine for primaries and secondaries.

Thanks very much.

In your experience, was it able to detect the difference between 75% color and 100% color windows/fields? I believe it can, but I ran primary color measures with 75% color before using the continuous measures.

Excellent question! Just did a quick test with a 100% window Red, Green, Blue, Yellow and Magenta and it went fine.

But like you suggested for the 75% windows, I also believe it can.

Will post more results as I do some more tests.

Pitou!