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Color HCFR Calibration Discussion (Post your calibration files here) - Page 118

post #3511 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Have a question on calibration my plasma. I normally watch the TV with some ambient light. However, when I am doing my calibration, should I still have the ambient light on, or should I make my room completely dark? Thanks.

Hello there, when calibrating. Calibrate in the conditions you normally view in. If most of the time you are viewing in ambient light then calibrate with ambient light.
post #3512 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Have a question on calibration my plasma. I normally watch the TV with some ambient light. However, when I am doing my calibration, should I still have the ambient light on, or should I make my room completely dark? Thanks.

If you're using a meter, a completely dark room is best to avoid any stray light finding it's way to the meter. However, you should set contrast higher than you would in a dark room (closer to 35-40fL than 30fL) and gamma should also be a little brighter (closer to 2.2 than 2.3-2.4). When setting brightness with a test pattern and your eyes, have the ambient light on.
post #3513 of 3872
Thanks all. I am expecting my meter (display LT) this week, and I have downloaded the HCFR software and read the "grayscale for Dummy" and most of the threads here in AVS. The ambient light is the LED from IKEA and it is fixed behind my plasma.
post #3514 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by thewizardhunter View Post

Hello there, when calibrating. Calibrate in the conditions you normally view in. If most of the time you are viewing in ambient light then calibrate with ambient light.

I have a slightly different answer. It really only matters when you set the white level (contrast and you need to get this high enough Vs your ambient light) and black level (brightness). For the rest of the measurements, the probe is flush against the screen and the LT has a rubber gasket around it to keep outside light out. You also need to select a gamma that is indicative of your viewing conditions, although I prefer 2.2 for both dark room viewing and 2.2 for a room with ambient light. I believe the experts would say that for a dark room you could go higher.

Outside light should not affect the readings for gray scale, gamma and gamut readings unless your meter is not flush with the screen.

Where the viewing environment is important for calibrating is with front projectors, as you are taking readings off of a reflective surface (screen).
post #3515 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knd View Post

Outside light should not affect the readings for gray scale, gamma and gamut readings unless your meter is not flush with the screen.

Of course it's a different story if it were a RPTV (with a mirror...) I've seen issues even with a direct view CRT ... when in doubt darken the room ... and make sure there's no stray light bouncing into the meter from your laptop screen.
post #3516 of 3872
Thanks all. This is good to know, because aside from my plasma, I also had a front PJ that I need to calibrate. That one I know I will have to make sure my room is as dark as possible (which in any case, is my viewing condition anyway). Can't wait to get the LT and start calibrating and wonder how far off I am right now. I did do the simple pluge diagram and contrast setting, and use the color filter from DVE blu-ray already... will probably post some files if I get into trouble. Thanks all again.
post #3517 of 3872
Hi there!

Is there anyone here know where can i buy a HCFR colorimeter (assembled). I lived in Singapore, buying all the parts and assembling the pcb could be difficult to me.

Anyone here can help me?

Appreciated.

Jhunix
post #3518 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged View Post

Of course it's a different story if it were a RPTV (with a mirror...) I've seen issues even with a direct view CRT ... when in doubt darken the room ... and make sure there's no stray light bouncing into the meter from your laptop screen.

Good point on the RPTV's, thanks.
post #3519 of 3872
anyone did a calibration of a pioneer 4280hd connected to a PCHT?
I wondering what mode, resolution to use before the calibration.

any help would be appreciated.

thanks
post #3520 of 3872
Hi. I need some help understanding the GammaY values.
From the "Grayscale for Dummies" I was told to set the brightness so that the Y@10IRE = 0.0065 x Y@100IRE, which I had also seen some reference in this forum that this is indeed the correct values.
However, this does not seem to match for the GammaY values shown for my grayscale. I am using Gamma reference 2.22.
In my case, my Y@100IRE ~100, so I set my 10IRE at around 0.6 (lowest I can get is 0.9 though) However, the gammaY shown say it should be 1.408. So, I am wondering which one I should set to? Thanks
post #3521 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Hi. I need some help understanding the GammaY values.
From the "Grayscale for Dummies" I was told to set the brightness so that the Y@10IRE = 0.0065 x Y@100IRE, which I had also seen some reference in this forum that this is indeed the correct values.
However, this does not seem to match for the GammaY values shown for my grayscale. I am using Gamma reference 2.22.
In my case, my Y@100IRE ~100, so I set my 10IRE at around 0.6 (lowest I can get is 0.9 though) However, the gammaY shown say it should be 1.408. So, I am wondering which one I should set to? Thanks

Hmm.. I found out that if I change in the "Advance--> Preferences --> Gamma calculations", and if I just use "Display Gamma" (vs "Display Gamma with black compensation") then I get the equation to match. Now, what is the display gamma with black compensation means, and when should I use it?
post #3522 of 3872
I strongly believe you should always set brightness using a pluge pattern. If your gamma is perfect and your meter is perfect and a few other conditions are just right, the "correct" black setting that you already determined by using a pluge pattern may *also* happen to obey the mathematical relationship that you are quoting. But I think it's unwise to *assume* perfect conditions form the outset and mindlessly dial in a brightness level based on theoretical computations without looking at the screen.

Get your room set up the way you normally watch the display and look at a pattern that shows below black, black, and just above black. Put the meter away and look at the screen with your eyes. Get very close to it if necessary. Set brightness so the first two are indistinguishable and the third barely distinguishable.

Simple as that.

If the computation above gives some other number than a perfect .0065, well, start looking for other causes. But your brightness is correct.
post #3523 of 3872
Thanks all. I just finished calibration my LG CF181D, and my DeltaE improve from an average of 12-14 to less than 2 from 20-100IRE! And I have almost a flat Gamma@2.4, and 6500K.
Color is still quite a bit off, and LG181D does not have a good CMS (only 1 dimension for the Luminence...), so i can only get that to +/-2-3% within range.

At the beginning, I thought I will need to spend $1k on the Duo and calibration tool to get to good grayscale/gamma/color.. Now, with the i1 Display LT and HCFR, I almost nail the grayscale and gamma... This really save me a lot of $$$, as I am not sure I want to spend that money for just the color.. I am actually not too far off, DeltaE still within 10...

Again, thanks all for your effort and the postings that are very educating and addictive!
post #3524 of 3872
Hi,

I have performed the calibrations using Spyder3TV/HCFR on 2 profile settings:
- one is using the Picture Mode "Cinema 1" for watching movies - which exhibits stronger colours that I like to see from films,
- the other one using the Picture Mode "Colour 1" - which has a colour gamut closer to REC709 thus projecting more natural colours and is more suitable for video-type material such as blu-ray concerts & HDTV broadcast (actually I did another calibration for my HDTV set top box separately - files not attached here).

The 2 calibration files are attached below. I know there is plenty room for improvements. Welcome for any suggestions.

By the way, I have hesitation to go into the CMS for further tweaking the colours. I know AE4000 has a good CMS for fine tuning the colours, but I think it's just too time consuming for me to further spend hours and hours on learning the CMS and do the adjustments. I prefer to spend the time to enjoy the projector with my wife and kids. Of course, if there is some tricks that I can do it quick and making improvement to the colours, that is more than welcome.

 

PT-AE4000.zip 2.5859375k . file
post #3525 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by dominickwok View Post

Hi,

I have performed the calibrations using Spyder3TV/HCFR on 2 profile settings:
- one is using the Picture Mode "Cinema 1" for watching movies - which exhibits stronger colours that I like to see from films,
- the other one using the Picture Mode "Colour 1" - which has a colour gamut closer to REC709 thus projecting more natural colours and is more suitable for video-type material such as blu-ray concerts & HDTV broadcast (actually I did another calibration for my HDTV set top box separately - files not attached here).

The 2 calibration files are attached below. I know there is plenty room for improvements. Welcome for any suggestions.

By the way, I have hesitation to go into the CMS for further tweaking the colours. I know AE4000 has a good CMS for fine tuning the colours, but I think it's just too time consuming for me to further spend hours and hours on learning the CMS and do the adjustments. I prefer to spend the time to enjoy the projector with my wife and kids. Of course, if there is some tricks that I can do it quick and making improvement to the colours, that is more than welcome.

Nice! For color, I think you can do a quick change to the "Lightness" to get at least that in sync. You have quite a large Luminance delta, and those are usually quite easy to fix. I also found that it kind of have a much bigger effect as saturation/hue, especially if you are like 20% off.
post #3526 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Nice! For color, I think you can do a quick change to the "Lightness" to get at least that in sync. You have quite a large Luminance delta, and those are usually quite easy to fix. I also found that it kind of have a much bigger effect as saturation/hue, especially if you are like 20% off.

Thanks for your advice.

You may wonder why I turned on the Dynamic Iris before I did the calibration. It seems violate the first rule of thumb. In fact I started with turning it Off. After balancing the grayscale, the gamma is very low (1.85???). I tried to fix it by adjusting the 9-point gamma values (large adjustments, of course), and then re-do the grayscale calibration (iteratively for 2 rounds, I think). All the graphs are plotted nicely; but when I put up a grayscale ramp, the ramp (surprisingly) exhibits a irregular colour shift of red. Don't know why.

But when I turned on the Dynamic Iris and re-do the whole calibration (only need to apply a small amount of adjustment to the 9-point gamma, because the before-gamma is already 2.08), the result is acceptable without noticeable colour shift in displaying the grayscale ramp. Strange!
post #3527 of 3872
I also did my calibration with dynamic IRIS On... To me, I think as long as you let it "sit" for a while before I click the "OK" button to start measure, that should be fine.

My question to this forum though is, does Lamp mode play an effect in grayscale/gamma? Currently, I did my calibration in low lamp mode, but if for some reason, I want to turn the lamp mode to HIGH, will I need another calibration? My initial thinking is "NOT", as hopefully everything just track.... but please advice.
post #3528 of 3872
I was hoping someone can help with transferring data. I just got a new computer and I am currently transferring all of my files from my old computer to the new one and installing all of the applications I had on the old computer and that includes Control Cal. I just finished installing and activiating the application however I don't know how to move all of my calibration settings from the old computer to the new one. I had the set professionally calibrated and those settings must be stored somewhere on my old computer.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
post #3529 of 3872
Have a question on RGB values vs. Gamma graph:
On my RGB graph, my RGB is pretty flat from 20-100%, as can be reflected in the low DeltaE value.
However, when I look at the Gamma value curve, it is not as good a picture. Red is much higher at the higher IRE, and Green/Blue is much lower...
I was under the impression that as long as my DeltaE is below 3, my gamma curve should be close to perfect? Not true?
In this case, what's my problem? If i reduce my red contrast at the higher IRE, then my RGB curve will not be correct and my DeltaE will shoot up?

Also, can anyone tell me how to post the .cfc file? I know how to post a photo, but I don't see the link in uploading files??
post #3530 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Have a question on RGB values vs. Gamma graph:
On my RGB graph, my RGB is pretty flat from 20-100%, as can be reflected in the low DeltaE value.
However, when I look at the Gamma value curve, it is not as good a picture. Red is much higher at the higher IRE, and Green/Blue is much lower...
I was under the impression that as long as my DeltaE is below 3, my gamma curve should be close to perfect? Not true?
In this case, what's my problem? If i reduce my red contrast at the higher IRE, then my RGB curve will not be correct and my DeltaE will shoot up?

Also, can anyone tell me how to post the .cfc file? I know how to post a photo, but I don't see the link in uploading files??

To post the .chc you'll need to put it inside a .zip and post that.

I had the same concerns, although the individual primaries weren't "much" higher or lower. I might have more to say after you've posted your .chc.
post #3531 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowland.johnson View Post
To post the .chc you'll need to put it inside a .zip and post that.

I had the same concerns, although the individual primaries weren't "much" higher or lower. I might have more to say after you've posted your .chc.
Thanks! Here it goes! Hope it works.

 

lcd181-expert1-mediumG-B39.zip 4.3779296875k . file
post #3532 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by fight4yu View Post

Thanks! Here it goes! Hope it works.

I asked the same question and had it explained to me that it's an artifact of the way gamma is computed. All that matters is the luminance gamma and not the primary gammas. Take a look at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post18107935 and the 10 or so posts that follow it.
post #3533 of 3872
Hello all,

I'm new to the calibration scene and would like some feedback on what I've done with my TV so far.

Specs:
Mitsubishi WD-65C9 -> Sony HT CT350 -> Sony PS3

Tools:
EyeOne Display LT Rev. C
HCFR 2.1.0

I've been following the Greyscale & Colour Calibration Guide for Dummies. I'm unsure how to adjust the CMS on this set. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

 

Color_after.zip 4.3828125k . file
post #3534 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysrhythmic View Post

Hello all,

I'm new to the calibration scene and would like some feedback on what I've done with my TV so far.

Specs:
Mitsubishi WD-65C9 -> Sony HT CT350 -> Sony PS3

Tools:
EyeOne Display LT Rev. C
HCFR 2.1.0

I've been following the Greyscale & Colour Calibration Guide for Dummies. I'm unsure how to adjust the CMS on this set. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

For Primaries, Y is more important. So, get your Y as close as possible. Right now, seems like you are seriously deficient in green, but over in Blue. When I am glancing your operational menu, I could not find the adjustment of "Y", only saturation (which usually refer to "x" adjustment)... so at least get that as close to the standard as possible. If you set does not have control on "Y" or brightness individually for each color, then that's as best as you can do, unless you go get an offboard CMS control like DUO or VideoEQ...
post #3535 of 3872
You can use the PerfectColor adjustment to remove most, but not all, of the color errors, which are primarily in the Y domain. Grayscale and gamma are fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dysrhythmic View Post

I'm new to the calibration scene and would like some feedback on what I've done with my TV so far.

Specs:
Mitsubishi WD-65C9 -> Sony HT CT350 -> Sony PS3

Tools:
EyeOne Display LT Rev. C
HCFR 2.1.0

I've been following the Greyscale & Colour Calibration Guide for Dummies. I'm unsure how to adjust the CMS on this set. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
post #3536 of 3872
Here is the updated settings. I can't figure out how to get the "Y" value of green and the "x" value of red any higher. Thanks for the help!

 

Color_ver2.zip 4.4482421875k . file
post #3537 of 3872
Not knowing anything about your display, I might propose using the "color" control to raise the Y values of all colors and then *decreasing* those that have gotten too high instead of *increasing* those that were not high enough.

Just to spell this out:

First, reset all of your CMS controls to a neutral position. Your "weakest" primary (in your case, green) should now be *even weaker*, just as it was when you first started.

Now get your meter set up and do a continuous measurement while displaying a test pattern for this "weakest" primary (again, in your case, green). Raise the "color" control of the display until the measured Y value reaches or slightly surpasses the ideal Y value.

This will probably cause the Y of all the other colors (except maybe in your case yellow) to become too high.

Now you start over with your original CMS methodology, only this time you will probably find yourself reducing Y on colors other than green instead of increasing the Y on green.

Changing the color control will probably *not* cause a large change in the xy values of the primaries on most sets, so I wouldn't necessarily use this technique to correct the location of your red primary. Just focus on green Y for now and see if this trick helps.
post #3538 of 3872
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=324

Can anyone figure out why the cyan secondary is quite undersaturated relative to the line connecting the green and blue primaries?
LL
post #3539 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=324

Can anyone figure out why the cyan secondary is quite undersaturated relative to the line connecting the green and blue primaries?

I'm not seeing the problem. Cyan could be closer, but it isn't bad. I followed your link and opened CAL-NIGHT.chc. The delatXY for Cyan is 0.013 which is better than the Green at 0.022.
post #3540 of 3872
Quote:
Originally Posted by rowland.johnson View Post

I'm not seeing the problem. Cyan could be closer, but it isn't bad. I followed your link and opened CAL-NIGHT.chc. The delatXY for Cyan is 0.013 which is better than the Green at 0.022.

What I mean is that cyan doesn't line up with blue and green (the white line connecting blue and green).
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