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Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread - Page 147  

post #4381 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

Seeing yourself looking at you whilst watching your Samsung because it reflects you on a dark screen....well that is the kind of image that ruins the viewing experience and the suspension of disbief that a good movie needs.
A TV should not be a mirror of your living room.....the 81 series are mirrors

I see a marketing opportunity. They can sell it as: The flat panel TV preferred by 9 out of 10 Narcissists!.
post #4382 of 4495
Sorry if this has been asked and answered in the previous 147 pages:

Does the 71 and 81 series support 1 to 1 pixel mapping?
post #4383 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjgkelly View Post

I was in a CC that had a 46" 71 and XBR4 right next to each other, and the salesperson there thought the 71 looked better... to each his own. I personally thought they looked about the same, although I did think the glossy screen added some "pop" to certain content compared to the XBR4. They were both most likely in showroom mode, so who knows how they would compare if they were properly calibrated, and I don't really care because I'm banking on the 81 Series.

The glossy screen may be an issue for some, but I've ruled out the XBR4 because, as far as I'm concerned, that glass frame was oudated a week after Sony introduced it in the XBR2/3 series last year, and there is no way I'd be able to tolerate it for month, let alone another 5+ years.

On another subject, I've just spent about an hour catching up on the last several pages of comments posted since yesterday. I was hoping that because there were a significant number of additional comments that there was some worthwhile information on availablity and/or quality of the 81 Series sets from owners.

However, as usual, most of the information didn't have anything to do with availablity or quality; instead it had to do with people like "tombaker" continuing to whine about the glossy screen and "greenland" questioning specs that were obviously incorrect, and preying on the paranoia of people that don't know any better.

I have done my best to ignore and not get involved in the pointless and inane comments about matte vs gloss and the disinformation discussions associated with specs, but I've got to ask the question... are you people who constantly complain about the glossy screen really too stupid to understand that you can whine, bitch and moan all you want, and it's not going to change anything, and for those of you that damn well know the actual specs, are you just trying to bait those that know better into a completely ridiculous argument?

Save everybody involved in this forum time and aggravation, and get a life or hobby that doesn't involve expressig pointless observations or ridiculous conjecture. Preciate it... and you can bait me all you want, but I will not waste my time responding.

and whats your point.....that you don't want to participate in a forum talking about AV stuff? Great....but why bother to tell us....why not just run along. Try speaking for yourself next time, as clearly you don't speak for anyone besides yourself and you are certainly not a representive of readers of this thread, your self election does not count. Anyone who puts out such dribble, then says they can not defend it and will not defend it, basically knows they are shoveling BS.

Reflections into the viewing image are a matter of quality.... the image is what you see. A good Canon SLR camera lense will have in a built in glare shield, not because the optics are creating a defect but because the environment ils likely too. Samsung has put out a series of TV that effects the quality of the image by its reflections. You choose to either not understand that or not care, but somehow I think its more of an important issue that you give it credit, we can debate it....its debateable....oh wait you just want to read things you agree with....never mind.

mrjgkelly....I am glad you have decided not to post again, it your choice, but heck, how will I live without the brilliant insight you added.
1. You are irrated.....yes I care! we all care.
2. You want to share if you think the XBR case if fashionable....gosh
3. You like to read posts and somehow haved not figured out how to either look as 60 messages at a time ( you can do that) or actually skip a post.

taking your toy and going home? awwww too bad
mrjgkelly buh-bye
post #4384 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjgkelly View Post

I was in a CC that had a 46" 71 and XBR4 right next to each other, and the salesperson there thought the 71 looked better... to each his own. I personally thought they looked about the same, although I did think the glossy screen added some "pop" to certain content compared to the XBR4. They were both most likely in showroom mode, so who knows how they would compare if they were properly calibrated, and I don't really care because I'm banking on the 81 Series.

The glossy screen may be an issue for some, but I've ruled out the XBR4 because, as far as I'm concerned, that glass frame was oudated a week after Sony introduced it in the XBR2/3 series last year, and there is no way I'd be able to tolerate it for month, let alone another 5+ years.

On another subject, I've just spent about an hour catching up on the last several pages of comments posted since yesterday. I was hoping that because there were a significant number of additional comments that there was some worthwhile information on availablity and/or quality of the 81 Series sets from owners.

However, as usual, most of the information didn't have anything to do with availablity or quality; instead it had to do with people like "tombaker" continuing to whine about the glossy screen and "greenland" questioning specs that were obviously incorrect, and preying on the paranoia of people that don't know any better.

I have done my best to ignore and not get involved in the pointless and inane comments about matte vs gloss and the disinformation discussions associated with specs, but I've got to ask the question... are you people who constantly complain about the glossy screen really too stupid to understand that you can whine, bitch and moan all you want, and it's not going to change anything, and for those of you that damn well know the actual specs, are you just trying to bait those that know better into a completely ridiculous argument?

Save everybody involved in this forum time and aggravation, and get a life or hobby that doesn't involve expressig pointless observations or ridiculous conjecture. Preciate it... and you can bait me all you want, but I will not waste my time responding.

Hey, I'm not nearly as informed as some on here. But I don't believe the 71 was zoomed. I wasn't meaning to down the 71 ...it had super contrast...almost too dark for my liking. I have been shopping and reading this forum and played the dickins trying to make a decision. Absent the 120 Motion blur feature which I've not seen on anything other than the Toshiba LX177, here are my impressions so far:

Sammy 65 series is excellent as is the Sony XBR4.However, I too am not wild about the glass bezel thing myself. Not wild about it but could live with it if I had to. Just from what I saw at hhgregg, the Sammy 71 was a good looking set but no WOW factor. Unfortunately, hhgregg insists on displaying an off air regular signal on all their sets. I told them i would love to see something sports related on the XBR4 where I could judge the 120 Motion feature. I've only seen a demo tape on the Toshiba LX177 involving the 120 Motion feature. It looked very good but the picture on the LX 177 was not nearly as sharp as the other front running sets.

I am really banking on the Sammy 81 being my WOW set. I REALLY want this set badly if it is head and shoulders above the others...price be damned. I have seen the LED on the projection set and was not at all impressed but I hold out great hope for the 81. In closing, I did notice the Sammy 65 series was right next to the XBR4 and you could clearly see the row of lights in the glossy picture screen of the Sammy 65 while on the XBR4, while the lights could be seen, they were very dull and about 1/4 as noticeable. Doesn't matter one way or the other to me because I have a dark room for viewing.
Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth. This is only my opinion based on what I saw.
post #4385 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

I see a marketing opportunity. They can sell it as: The flat panel TV preferred by 9 out of 10 Narcissists!.

LOL hahahaa.....nice connection.

Hopefully Samsung reps are reading here....and they can see they are excluding a market by their design choices. If it becomes clear they are excluding potential buyers like myself....they can change the product mix. Any good marketing team will closely follow early adopters...which is what this forum and thread represents.
post #4386 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

I see a marketing opportunity. They can sell it as: The flat panel TV preferred by 9 out of 10 Narcissists!.

I figured it'd be a better shaving mirror for me in a fully lit room. My mirror is pretty old... great PQ at night is a side feature.
post #4387 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

LOL hahahaa.....nice connection.

Hopefully Samsung reps are reading here....and they can see they are excluding a market by their design choices. If it becomes clear they are excluding potential buyers like myself....they can change the product mix. Any good marketing team will closely follow early adopters...which is what this forum and thread represents.

The amazing thing is: the one thing that the LCDemons used to beat the Plasmaniacs over the head with was the fact that Plasma was terrible to watch under regular daylight condition because of glare and reflections. Now that this panel may have some of the same issues, many of the self same LCDemons are going; let us not mention that. Let us just pretend that it does not exist.
post #4388 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

The amazing thing is: the one thing that the LCDemons used to beat the Plasmaniacs over the head with was the fact that Plasma was terrible to watch under regular daylight condition because of glare and reflections. Now that this panel may have some of the same issues, many of the self same LCDemons are going; let us not mention that. Let us just pretend that it does not exist.

Because some of us stay silent having not reviewed the panel in person doesn't mean we're withholding criticism or find it acceptable personally. I go out of my way to point out the disadvanatges of plasma primarily in the LCD threads with the hope new members may consider those factors instead of following the fan base and herd mentality. I'm not in denial of the quality of many great plasma's in the right viewing conditions especially the Kuro or this 81/71 series but the reality is if one's environment doesn't suit it then it can become a disatisfactory viewing experience and financial loss.

If someone is transitioning from a CRT/PDP to this 81 then it may not be a concern. I also feel Samsung could have gone both ways but instead they seem to be handing that territory over to Sony.

Not a fan of the reflective panel and I hate it even on the laptops I've purchased for my network. However, having said that I have no intent on beating that horse to death when the Owners threads gets going - that's not the place for it - the owners should know what they've purchased and to have members coming in 20 times and tainting the threads with bashing the same points doesn't generate anything productive for the owners.

Speculation threads sure but the owners thread should not become the dumping ground for non-owners to crap on the owners sharing experiences of their panel or prospective owners. JMO as it taints the hell out of an owners thread. It's pretty bold on their part, though I'd also prefer a matte panel - they will now control the reflective LCD market (whatever that may be) and pull some PDP's buyers along the way.

Reflections aside - hopefully these can survive the honeymoon unscathed - not many panels do.
post #4389 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

I figured it'd be a better shaving mirror for me in a fully lit room. My mirror is pretty old... great PQ at night is a side feature.

No you'll still use your plasma for this because plasmas still are better at reflection than this TV.

I compared them today and your correct (from another post) the 71 series PQ beats all plasmas with the exception of Pioneer and couldn't compare them because CC doesn't carry them.

I did compare reflections with the gloss to plasma reflections and plasma still holds the crown. And I wonder about that coating some are using. Just dulls it. I love the Sammy 71's but I believe like some here I want the matte like I have now. Thats the big advantage that LCD's have. And it was noted today that the LED's LCD's will have matte screens next year.

And I noticed today that viewing angles differ from manufacture to another.
post #4390 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Because some of us stay silent having not reviewed the panel in person doesn't mean we're withholding criticism or find it acceptable personally. I go out of my way to point out the disadvanatges of plasma primarily in the LCD threads with the hope new members may consider those factors instead of following the fan base and herd mentality. I'm not in denial of the quality of many great plasma's in the right viewing conditions especially the Kuro or this 81/71 series but the reality is if one's environment doesn't suit it then it can become a disatisfactory viewing experience and financial loss.

If someone is transitioning from a CRT/PDP to this 81 then it may not be a concern. I also feel Samsung could have gone both ways but instead they seem to be handing that territory over to Sony.

Not a fan of the reflective panel and I hate it even on the laptops I've purchased for my network. However, having said that I have no intent on beating that horse to death when the Owners threads gets going - that's not the place for it - the owners should know what they've purchased and to have members coming in 20 times and tainting the threads with bashing the same points doesn't generate anything productive for the owners.

Speculation threads sure but the owners thread should not become the dumping ground for non-owners to crap on the owners sharing experiences of their panel or prospective owners. JMO as it taints the hell out of an owners thread. It's pretty bold on their part, though I'd also prefer a matte panel - they will now control the reflective LCD market (whatever that may be) and pull some PDP's buyers along the way.

Reflections aside - hopefully these can survive the honeymoon unscathed - not many panels do.

You can check out Samsungs reflective screens w/o seeing the 81 series. 65 and 71 have the same screen I believe.
post #4391 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

No you'll still use your plasma for this because plasmas still are better at reflection than this TV.

I compared them today and your correct (from another post) the 71 series PQ beats all plasmas with the exception of Pioneer and couldn't compare them because CC doesn't carry them.

I did compare reflections with the gloss to plasma reflections and plasma still holds the crown. And I wonder about that coating some are using. Just dulls it. I love the Sammy 71's but I believe like some here I want the matte like I have now. Thats the big advantage that LCD's have. And it was noted today that the LED's LCD's will have matte screens next year.

And I noticed today that viewing angles differ from manufacture to another.

I disagree. The gloss from Samsungs TVs seem way more reflective to me than even my older Pioneer Plasma (which was pretty reflective too). C-net states the same thing in their review of the 65 series. Granted, I am one who doesn't mind a bit of gloss because I have a room where I can control lighting. But I don't agree at all w/ Samsungs glossy screens not being as glare-happy as plasmas, they are just as glareful if not more so. Panasonics 77 series w/ the matte design and Pioneers new anti-glare perform much better in this regard and it will be noticeable to alot of people. Of course matte LCD is still a killer of glare.

I really don't know why any videophile would let daylight be a factor. The best time to critically view is in a darkened situation. Whether your screen is matte or not, light will screw up your image regardless. If you can't control your lighting... then you'll always have to live with second best. Direct light messes up images. PERIOD.
post #4392 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

I disagree. The gloss from Samsungs TVs seem way more reflective to me than even my older Pioneer Plasma (which was pretty reflective too). C-net states the same thing in their review of the 65 series. Granted, I am one who doesn't mind a bit of gloss because I have a room where I can control lighting. But I don't agree at all w/ Samsungs glossy screens not being as glare-happy as plasmas, they are just as glareful if not more so. Panasonics 77 series w/ the matte design and Pioneers new anti-glare perform much better in this regard and it will be noticeable to alot of people. Of course matte LCD is still a killer of glare.

I really don't know why any videophile would let daylight be a factor. The best time to critically view is in a darkened situation. Whether your screen is matte or not, light will screw up your image regardless. If you can't find control your lighting... then you'll always have to live with second best. Direct light messes up images. PERIOD.

You need to check this out for yourself. I like Cnet when it comes to testing equipment, but I don't listen to the human element of their reviews.

Go to BB their so well lit you can't help but see all the reflections. Where as CC is more sophisticated with their set-up. The emissive theory doesn't work for me no more. I'm leaving the CRT age for these new techs. Your still stuck in the CRT world.
post #4393 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnybrulez View Post

You can check out Samsungs reflective screens w/o seeing the 81 series. 65 and 71 have the same screen I believe.

And if he can get the store to set them up opposite each other, he can check out the 71 just by looking at it's reflection in the 81. Of course he might have to first chase off all those chicks that will be using them to fix their makeup.
post #4394 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

You obviously have not seen the reflective properties of the 65 and 71 and 81 series.....a standard CRT would be about 15% as reflective.
Again are going to be buying the very large 81 series for a home theater with lighting that will not make the problem worse heck the glossy give one great picture.
The problem is the choice of gloss in more situations than not….will add image noise into the picture….and this reflective image noise is more noticeable than any other type of defect with the possible exception of Blur for a sports fan.

Obviously? Why is presumptiousness such an easy thing for people to lean on?

I actually have seen the Samsungs (well, not the 81). Sure they are reflective whilst nestled about a bunch of matte screens, but after asking around many say that plasmas and other reflective screens are still less reflective or just as reflective as the old tubes, definetly not "85%" MORE reflective that's for sure.
post #4395 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldcband View Post

You need to check this out for yourself. I like Cnet when it comes to testing equipment, but I don't listen to the human element of their reviews.

Go to BB their so well lit you can't help but see all the reflections. Where as CC is more sophisticated with their set-up. The emissive theory doesn't work for me no more. I'm leaving the CRT age for these new techs. Your still stuck in the CRT world.

Best Buy is where I made my comparison... twice now. C-net is just a reference of non bias I use. Other people state the same thing. What's funny is that I am not a big 'glare' guy and I don't bitch about it. I've owned two LCDs, a DLP, and I used to own a plasma. One LCD I am still keeping and yes, matte is nice. It keeps glare away. But if I shine a light on the my Samsung 3251D, it still effects the TV image negatively. Regardless if matte lovers want to hear that or not its the truth. Me? I'd rather take matte for a daylight situation. But at the same time I know people that wouldn't mind glare and they say the reflection of the light vs. the scattering that matte does improves color rendition and contrast in the daytime.

I say, light sucks no matter what TV you got. And no manufacturer has yet figure out a way to not be affected by light. Everybody labels everyone like they got some agenda. "Stuck in the CRT world." Yet I have 3 digital displays running in my house... none of them at the moment are phosphor based.

Yes... I am totally 'stuck in a CRT world'. No sir, I'm stuck in a world of Home Theater PQ.
post #4396 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by westa6969 View Post

Because some of us stay silent having not reviewed the panel in person doesn't mean we're withholding criticism or find it acceptable personally.

Whoah! Wait a minute! You're responding to his 'LCDemon' label... do you realize what you're doing?!
(by the way, nice post. It makes complete sense, though I do admit I like the benefits of reflective panels despite their obvious faults.)
post #4397 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by spincut View Post

Obviously? Why is presumptiousness such an easy thing for people to lean on?

I actually have seen the Samsungs (well, not the 81). Sure they are reflective whilst nestled about a bunch of matte screens, but after asking around many say that plasmas and other reflective screens are still less reflective or just as reflective as the old tubes, definetly not "85%" MORE reflective that's for sure.

So did you like reflective tube sets or not. I find it hard to understand what point you are making. If reflections were not considered a good thing on much smaller tube displays, how does that translate to very large, highly reflective LCD displays are more acceptable!.
post #4398 of 4495
So... has anyone else gotten an 81 panel yet?? It seems the 'Black-hole' like blacks sucked in our only owner... never to be seen again.
post #4399 of 4495
The lamp wanted to inject itself into the plot line


are these panels as reflective as the shinny piano black casing...why yes, yes they are.


want to be in movies....step up one and all stare into the Samsung and you will be part of the movie.....its not magic.
post #4400 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

Whoah! Wait a minute! You're responding to his 'LCDemon' label... do you realize what you're doing?!
(by the way, nice post. It makes complete sense, though I do admit I like the benefits of reflective panels despite their obvious faults.)

Yes he did. Ha Ha. He also admitted that he was one of the LCD town criers who kept warning the LCD village about the looming dangers of Plasma reflections. He never warned the Plasmaniacs about what to beware of from LCDs. He is a true partisan, and proud to acknowledge that he is a loyal LCDemon.
post #4401 of 4495
so anyone else think that the only difference between the 71 and 81 will be led? Owning the 71 right now and looking at the service and submenus of the 71, I see led referenced all over the place. It seems like the giant leap wpould only be the backlighting. Can the led set still have a mura effect or is that a CCFL thing?
post #4402 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nambit View Post

So... has anyone else gotten an 81 panel yet?? It seems the 'Black-hole' like blacks sucked in our only owner... never to be seen again.

There was one new one reported in this afternoon. He is going to post some more information soon. Also, you will find two reports from people who saw actual store displays today. One fellow posted around seven pictures. I am just having a bit of fun with the LCDemons versus the Plasmaniacs, until the real owner feedback comes in.
post #4403 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpjunkie View Post

so anyone else think that the only difference between the 71 and 81 will be led? Owning the 71 right now and looking at the service and submenus of the 71, I see led referenced all over the place. It seems like the giant leap wpould only be the backlighting. Can the led set still have a mura effect or is that a CCFL thing?

Isn't the 81 suppose to introduce a way to prevent motion blur. If that works as advertised, that would be a significant improvement over the previous generation. I have not seen any owner reports yet on how well it actually works.

..
post #4404 of 4495
You would think some manufacturer would provide a snap off shiny bezel that conceals a flat black one. This way they could get all the sales they want off that attention getting shiny look and still give the owner a choice of bezel once the owner's taste matures with the set.
post #4405 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

The lamp wanted to inject itself into the plot line


are these panels as reflective as the shinny piano black casing...why yes, yes they are.


want to be in movies....step up one and all stare into the Samsung and you will be part of the movie.....its not magic.

Made your point about a dozen times, why dont you go hang out at the Sony thread. You've already stated your intention to not buy this set, IMHO you have nothing more to offer, so why keep harping? It is definately getting to be a bore. Much more irritating than a little glare in fact.

OH WAIT!!! dOH!! i CAN JUST PUT YOU ON iGNORE!!!!
post #4406 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by tombaker View Post

The lamp wanted to inject itself into the plot line


are these panels as reflective as the shinny piano black casing...why yes, yes they are.


want to be in movies....step up one and all stare into the Samsung and you will be part of the movie.....its not magic.

Tom,

Were those pictures taken in a home setting at night with just the lamp on?. Is it a 71 series panel. How dim does the room have to be, in order to not see intrusive reflections?.
..
post #4407 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1080z View Post

You would think some manufacturer would provide a snap off shiny bezel that conceals a flat black one. This way they could get all the sales they want off that attention getting shiny look and still give the owner a choice of bezel once the owner's taste matures with the set.

That sounds like a good idea, if it could be made to look OK, and not look like some thing was peeling off. They will still need to probably do something about the highly reflective glass.
post #4408 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

So did you like reflective tube sets or not. I find it hard to understand what point you are making. If reflections were not considered a good thing on much smaller tube displays, how does that translate to very large, highly reflective LCD displays are more acceptable!.

I dont like it, but if its got what i want and there is no equal then it's no worse than what i had one TV ago and long before, THATS my point.

And even more to the point, as much as i do vaguely recall avoiding having a large window beaming light onto my tv when i watch during the day, i remember it being second nature, i never remember reflections being something people griped about all that much, if anything i barely remember thinking about it even in possible daylight situations where it could have been an issue, i would just take care of it and draw the blinds if i was having trouble seeing what i was watching and didnt stress out about it (i never remember anything but poorly placed day or sunlight being an issue so as long as i had blinds it was never a real problem).

And in case i wasnt clear about it the situations where i did have those issues werent very often to begin with as far as i can recall.
post #4409 of 4495
Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland View Post

Tom,

Were those pictures taken in a home setting at night with just the lamp on?. Is it a 71 series panel. How dim does the room have to be, in order to not see intrusive reflections?.
..

dont ask the troll. The one with the lamp is the 65 series. The one below is the 71 that i took a picture of a CC to show how reflective it is in the store. They have the worst lighting at cc and if the wanted to sell tv's they need to make a magnolia type viewing experience in thier stores.
post #4410 of 4495
So, who's up on the firing line this weekend? Who gets deliveries?
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