Samsung 81 Series anticipation thread - Page 3  

I hope Costco will sell these when they become available.

x2! As an owner of a banding D62u purchased at Costco I'm hoping to compare this set w/the new Sharp D92U's

SONY AND SAMSUNG HAVE A JOINT VENTURE IN LCD,THEY ARE MADE AT THE SAMSUNG PLANT FOR BOTH COMPANYS AND USE THE SAME LCD SCREEN,only some internal components are different for each other

Your IAP (ignorance*arrogance product) is through the roof! Ever heard of S-LCD, the Sony, Samsung joint venture that makes LCD panels for both companies?

Phat

From the brightness, size, power consumption and current efficiency of LEDs, we can start estimating the number of LEDs. Anybody want to break out their calculator?

Absolutely correct - many that have never studied the partnership and it's history make false assumptions on this "Joint" partnership assuming that Sony is somehow helping Samsung. They both benefit mutually but it was Sony that sought the relationship with Samsung so as to make money again as Sony was losing huge amounts of money and Samsung was at the the opposite extreme making huge profits and ready manufacturing capacity that Sony lacked on a World Market. As Americans we often see with ltd vision and Sony is not the Dominant player in the world market and they are not number one in Asia as they usually can dominate in the US - I believe Sharp will sell over 7 million LCD TV's this year and goals of over 10 million within the next two years. Sony gave up that market during it's infancy and are catching up and trying to find more capacity as they are now succeeding very well in LCD despite the trash talk that proliferates on this forum.

I like both Sony and Samsung but too many folks make assumptions that Samsung is the weak partner when in fact Samsung profit margins dwarfs Sony "PROFITS" in fact they were reported huge losses = No obvious profit.

Samsung is one of the quickest innovators in CE products and having to compete in LCD with Samsung forces them to rotate product lines faster as Sony's history has been sloooow and few new releases compared to Samsung and others - they are now forced into the leapfrog CE process to continue profits as they originally sat on the sidelines watching Sharp commit everything to LCD and become one of the dominant players in LCD world market. Nothing like competition and we are the beneficiaries.

They've both benefitted and yes they share in over 5,000 patents which excludes DNie for Samsung and I think it's the DRC that Sony excludes. Samsung has improved dramatically with their plasma and lcd's since the "S" series and I'd expect the "T" to leapfrog yet again and I wouldn't expect anything less (other than price with Sony). There are rumors and a lawsuit pending from Pioneer Plasma that suspects there could be some piracy of their PDP technology by Samsung - don't know if there's truth but their PDP's did dramatically improve from the "R" to the "S" - at least they are setting the bar high and in the right place if they hijacked a little PDP enhancement tech - I know I'd choose Pioneer and Fujitsu if I were to hijack.

My interest is the Samsung 70" LCD (and the 65" D93 Sharp) which it appears they are letting Sony steal the show with theirs temporarily and very little press on it since last summer but I know I sure the hell cannot even consider the Sony without having won a Lotto. I do notice the 57" Samsung LCD is gradually dropping to near half it's MSRP of $10K July 2006 and I suspect it'll become half what it was just as they've done with it's 63" PDP has become a half it's original MSRP IMO and research.

Samsung, it seems, positions the 70 incher for professional apps, Sony is moving with it into consumer market. Sony justifies exorbitant price
by packing every imaginable technology into it, especially LED BL and HDMI 1.3.

Sharp 65" incher will be so much cheaper than Sony that there is no PQ difference which would justify buying Sony.

On the other hand, if Samsung will bring to the market 70 incher in the same price range as Sharp and without the technology overhead of Sony, that would be interesting battle.

On paper, Sharp panel has much better CR (3000:1 vs. 1300:1) and it has backlight lamps with 5 wavelengths. That may favor it against Samsung at might be the reason why Samsung-Sony do not want to go into direct competition with Sharp in this range. At least now, story will be different when their 8 Gen manu lines will start moving later this year

We should be talking about the local dimmed LED sets. The Sony-Samsung alliance really isnt realivent to this except when asking what panel theylle be using, which obviously will be an S-PVA. XBR Clouding really isnt realivent either.


Comparing ratios given by companies in specs really isnt relivent since they udge numbers. Also dynamic vs non dynamic ratios.

Its funny - people were obsessed with the Sharp D92U line to the point that they were pulling there hair out in anticipation. Now that they seem to be somewhat less than stellar, one would think people would move on to the next real exciting possibility - the 81 Series. I, for one, have told the wife I will not be purchasing a LCD until June/July because I want to see the 81 Series, 65 Series, and also the Toshiba\\JVC options.

Tim

If this does use some of the Brightside patents, we could be in for an expensive set.

When I went to E3 in 2004, they had the Brightside 37 LCD set(not sure if it was 720p or 1080i/p at the time). Talking to the representative, they told me that the set cost $50,000 dollars and by next year it will be $25,000 (2005) and would likely be halve per year. which means the same tv would cost about 12,500 in 2006 and this year it would be ~5,750. They also told me that they would be licensing this technology to many other big brands and that the prices would vary depending on what the big names charged, so it is hard to predict the prices right now.

THe Brightside used over 1,000 LED bulbs that is able to turn completely off and on, and also 50%. The ability to turn the LED lighting completely off is what gives it its super high contrast ratio. But it also used as much power as 2 fullsize fridges which is very impractical (over 1000 watts/ 14amps).

It looks like most of these LEDs sets nowadays are able to do it in 200watts and less. Not sure if that is because of the refinement in technology or if theyre using less number of LEDs.

Has anyone actually seen any concrete information for when these are actually going to be released? Besides for the exhibit at CES, they don't really seem to exist even on paper...

I'm hoping to get a 57" set this summer... and so far I'm eying this, the Toshiba LX177 and the LG LY3D.

See posts below - I was completely off on the total number of LEDs...

Power consumption for :

40" samsung with LBLU 120W (2160 leds)
40" samsung with LBLU & dynamic dimming less than 120W

maximum consumption is same, so dynamic dimming should use the same number of leds.

Follow the link in post #55 of this thread. It's clearly mentioned in the display feature list in the photo.
This number may be a little misleading if they are using 3 leds (one each of red/green/blue) to generate each discrete backlight point. i.e. it would be equivalent to 2160/3 white leds.

Greetings,

Having spent the last 6 months on the D92 anticipation thread, I've started looking at alternatives since the very early reports of D92's contain banding, like their D62 brethren. Major disappointment. Pictures of the 81 series look very good, specs sound far-out, so I'll be checking in this thread on a regular basis.

JB

PS--Can someone quickly give a comparison to the 81's vs Toshiba X177?

Not quite sure why you say that, as I for one an here exactly for that reason....the 92U's in a word sux!

Perhaps they are taking it hard (and hard to let go) as those TV's are available now, and IF they were OK, lots of people could be watching a decent set right now. Its a shame the 81's are not due till summer

Same. The Sharp 92s look like they may be another flawed product like the 62s were, and between the 62, Sony XBR2, and Samsung 95D I bought in my last round of "in-home trials," the Samsung was definitely the favorite, hampered only by overscan and lack of PQ control on some of the inputs. If they can get 1:1 in there and then just throw in some "expected" overall improvements, this may be the one.

I just meant that the Sharp thread has been a really long thread for sometime, well before the D92s were even released. People just seem slow to eagerly await and discuss the 81 series - perhaps its because they are so far out right now. I was surprised that this thread sat at 2 pages for as long as it did, but now we seem to have the discussion going

JohnsonBrewer - see 2007 CES Toshiba Info from CNET for early specs from CES 2007...

I assumed so since they listed the power consumption for the set with dimming as <120 Watts depending on contents. Since the non-dimmed set was 120 Watts, I make the inference that the dimmed set has the same number of leds but will use less power when the contents allow dimming of some of the leds.

Samsung was showing off LED backlit monitors with 100,000:1 CR http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=6008

Only up to 40" and 1366x768 but did have local dimming of LEDs.

This paper gives some insight possibly, I found a pointer to it over in the
LCD TVs: Technology Advancements Thread

http://www2.dupont.com/Displays/en_U...IDLEDPaper.pdf

At any rate one of its statements is:

"LED devices for backlighting can be roughly divided into two
categories: standard flux and high flux. Standard flux LEDs are
available in a variety of standard leaded and surface mount
configurations with power dissipations on the order of 60 -100mW.
These devices can be used in a large quantity to generate outputs
in excess of several hundred lumens. "

2160 leds x 60mW = ~129 Watts, which is certainly in the ballpark. If there has been any improvement in LED efficiency since the paper came out in Jan 2006 then 120 Watts certainly seems reasonable/possible for a 2160 LED backlight TV.

I just hope they announce a price by march. When the 65f series comes out in a couple months, I know im gonna be so tempted to buy. If they announce the 81 to be $1000+ more then the 65f, then ill just skip the 81 and the wait. But if the price is competitively different (around $500), then I will hold out for the 81.

Well, if we go by what they did last year, they announced their new TV's in late May i.e. the 96 series. It seems reasonable to assume they may do something similar this year. Of course, perhaps one of the other manufacturers set to offer LED backlit LCD TV's may announce earlier and force their hand. At any rate these forthcoming LED backlit TV's look like they will potentially have several advantages including lower power consumption, Higher contrast ratios and deeper blacks. Naturally, they will also have some new set of problems for us to all complain about;-)

The article says Samsung were showing off monitors. You got my hopes up for a Sharp LED monitor