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Format Battle: Content Scorecard - Page 4

post #91 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

As long as he doesn't leave out the PS3, or claim that the Samsung is $999, I would fully support Amir launching a "price scorecard" thread.

Hear hear! No rational person should shy away from discussing objective numbers. Or admitting they're wrong, or whatever. Reason above all, please.

Phat
post #92 of 207
I am sure a lot of folks remember this - maybe some don't:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_So...ection_scandal

Things like this are why I will never, ever give in to the Sony PoS machine or take anything they say as the truth. Just about wants me to skip their movie releases altogether no matter what format they are in or on.

At one time I really wanted to be format neutral but when I am reminded of this sort of thing I just cannot do it.
post #93 of 207
Warner, Disney Again Tops In Market Share

Market share for 2006:
1. Warner 18.4%
2. BVHE 16.1%
3. Fox 15%
4. Sony 13.2%
5. Universal 12.4%
6. Paramount 12.2%
7. Lionsgate 5.2%
8. Genius 1.4%

Top 10 DVD Sellers
Through Dec. 31

1. Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, Buena Vista, 14.4 million units [announced on BD - May 07]
2. Cars, Buena Vista, 13.5 million units [announced on BD - 2007]
3. The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe, Buena Vista, 11.4 million units
4. Harry Potter and The Goblet of Fire, Warner, 10.1 million units [announced on BD and HD DVD - 2007]
5. Wedding Crashers, New Line, 8.4 million units
6. King Kong, Universal Studios, 7.6 million units [released on HD DVD]
7. Over the Hedge, DreamWorks/Paramount, 7.4 million units
8. Ice Age: The Meltdown, 20th Century Fox, 7.3 million units [released on BD]
9. Walk the Line, 20th Century Fox, 7.1 million units
10. The Little Mermaid: Platinum Edition, Buena Vista, 6.4 million units
post #94 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by efranzen View Post

A good example of this is The Shawshank Redemption. It is #2 on the Top 250 list yet it only made 28 million at the box office. It cost 25 million to make. So by that metric alone, the movie was a major flop.

There's an old saying: "The exception that proves the rule."

Generally movies that perform well at theatres also do well on DVD. Movies that tank at the theatre tend to also sink without trace on DVD (studios are less inclined to provide ad revenue, for a start). There's no reason to suspect this will alter with regards to High Definition sales.
post #95 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

Warner, Disney Again Tops In Market Share

Market share for 2006:....

Nice work Grubert. Though the link ain't working for me.
post #96 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talkstr8t View Post

How quickly you forget he's the clown who predicted HD DVD devices could outsell Blu-ray devices by 20:1 by the end of the year. Oh, and also the guy who lists Microsoft and Toshiba as major clients.

You assume that I had even knew what you falsely state I did. Typical Sony arrogance.
Who is allowed to press Blu-ray discs? Who is allowed to encode the discs? Do discs have to be approved by Sony? Can Sony revoke a manufactures ability to produce Blu-ray discs? Who owns the current disc manufacturing facilities? Is it just Sony and Disney? Is Blu-ray just another Sony proprietary format?

Does the new Sony Blu-ray player read CD or SACD discs (which Sony developed)? Since Sony has a proven track record of abandoning its own proprietary formats why should I assume anything different this time? Do you want me to list these Sony proprietary failed formats? Is SACD sound quality superior to PCM? (waiting for no answer)

Has Sony improved their quality control for all of their products throughout the world? Are they expected to recover financially from the largest recalls ever in the history of consumer electronics? Do you expect consumers to spent $600 for a console with not much to play on? The PS2 reliability was simply terrible - no wonder the PS3 sits on store shelfs unsold. Its too risky!

Is there fighting between Sony divisions? Is this why the quality of many Blu-ray discs is substandard? Why should anyone pay extra for poor mastering quality when the SD version is just as good? (Many consumers cannot tell the difference). Is it true some Blu-ray discs actually look worse than the SD versions?
Am I a lifelong Sony customer a clown too? Or could it be that Sony's day of reckoning is coming as you guys have pissed too many customers off with your past antics?
post #97 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

You assume that I had even knew what you falsely state I did. Typical Sony arrogance.
Who is allowed to press Blu-ray discs? Who is allowed to encode the discs? Do discs have to be approved by Sony? Can Sony revoke a manufactures ability to produce Blu-ray discs? Who owns the current disc manufacturing facilities? Is it just Sony and Disney? Is Blu-ray just another Sony proprietary format?

Does the new Sony Blu-ray player read CD or SACD discs (which Sony developed)? Since Sony has a proven track record of abandoning its own proprietary formats why should I assume anything different this time? Do you want me to list these Sony proprietary failed formats? Is SACD sound quality superior to PCM? (waiting for no answer)

Has Sony improved their quality control for all of their products throughout the world? Are they expected to recover financially from the largest recalls ever in the history of consumer electronics? Do you expect consumers to spent $600 for a console with not much to play on? The PS2 reliability was simply terrible - no wonder the PS3 sits on store shelfs unsold. Its too risky!

Is there fighting between Sony divisions? Is this why the quality of many Blu-ray discs is substandard? Why should anyone pay extra for poor mastering quality when the SD version is just as good? (Many consumers cannot tell the difference). Is it true some Blu-ray discs actually look worse than the SD versions?
Am I a lifelong Sony customer a clown too? Or could it be that Sony's day of reckoning is coming as you guys have pissed too many customers off with your past antics?

This sort ot psychosis is deeply troubling. Glad I decided not to share any details about where I live after reading this sort of post.
post #98 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac Hunt View Post

Nice work Grubert. Though the link ain't working for me.

Sorry. Fixed.
post #99 of 207
Thanks
post #100 of 207
post deleted. saw someone mentioned mgm
post #101 of 207
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate View Post

Typical Sony arrogance.

I've never claimed to work for Sony, nor has it generally been assumed I do. Nonetheless, I'll respond to a few of your questions as a BD Insider. Follow-ups should go to the general Format Battle thread or the Insider's thread; I am unlikely to post follow-ups to these questions here, since this thread isn't the suitable place.
Quote:


Who is allowed to press Blu-ray discs?

Anyone who procurs the necessary equipment and properly licenses mandatory protection technologies (i.e. AACS).
Quote:


Who is allowed to encode the discs?

Anyone.
Quote:


Do discs have to be approved by Sony?

Nope.
Quote:


Can Sony revoke a manufactures ability to produce Blu-ray discs?

Nope.
Quote:


Who owns the current disc manufacturing facilities? Is it just Sony and Disney?

Disney doesn't own such facilities. I saw a list recently but don't recall where; it had 5-6 names, as I recall, including Sony, Matsushita, Cinram, and a couple of others.
Quote:


Is Blu-ray just another Sony proprietary format?

Nope, it is specified by the BDA, which consists of all major CE vendors except for Toshiba. It is supported by far more companies than HD DVD. Both Blu-ray and HD DVD are comparable in terms of licensing policies; if one is proprietary, both are.
Quote:


Does the new Sony Blu-ray player read CD or SACD discs (which Sony developed)?

The PS3 does. The BDP-S1 does not.
Quote:


Is SACD sound quality superior to PCM? (waiting for no answer)

This would seem to be a purely subjective question. I haven't compared the two formats in a suitably-equipped listening environment to have a personal opinion on this.
Quote:


Are they expected to recover financially from the largest recalls ever in the history of consumer electronics?

I don't know whether your statement is correct. I believe Sony was marginally profitable last year in spite of financial pressures from recalls and PS3 development.
Quote:


Do you expect consumers to spent $600 for a console with not much to play on?

There are over a dozen PS3 games, 8000 PS3 games, x000 PS games, 160 Blu-ray titles, and hundreds of thousands of CD's and DVD's. Yes, I expect consumers to spend $500-600 for this console, and the record-setting pace of 1M unit threshold suggests I am correct.
Quote:


Is this why the quality of many Blu-ray discs is substandard?

Current opinion tends toward initial masters being substandard, not the encoding job. Those who have viewed TFE master and Blu-ray disc side by side consider the encoding (of a very poor master) to be excellent.
post #102 of 207
Where's the problem? Why this topic?

It's simple:
Kiddies go out and buy BD to play those crap movies, like X-MEN, Casino Royale (in that MPEG4/AVC crap codec) or Pirates of the carribean etc.
Blu-Ray = for lovers of 0815-movies ¦ HD DVD = for lovers of great content

It's still the quality of the releases and the selected movies which counts for me. HD DVD still has the BETTER movies. Even if there are less movies. But that will change.

Why always show those sales ranks, title counts and that ****?! No way that BD has the chance to get the great movies - I'm sorry. Universal is the true king.

Universal alone is more important to me than Fox, Disney and Columbia together.

Quote:


I've already voted with my wallet. I'd rather have access to the exclusive content on HD-DVD than the exclusive content of all the combined BD exclusive studios.

That's it!
post #103 of 207
Let's stop the backbiting and stick to the topic.
post #104 of 207
^^^
Does anyone remember what the topic was?
post #105 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by UxiSXRD View Post

Plenty of biased posters make good threads and I don't see that Insider status changes that. Even on the 1st page, I see threads from Kosty and Nataraj that I check at least semi-regularly, even though they're both obvious HD-DVD partisans. I would like to see a thread or two started by Amir, though.

Gee thanks. I think.

There was this other thread started by bferr1 that did have a lot of lists of top grossing movies and lists from the American Film Institute and some other lists of all movies that ever grossed over 1 million dollars in the USA.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=715977

Your comments and lists are welcome over there as well.


Quote:


even though they're both obvious HD-DVD partisans

BTW, I consider myself a HD and Home Theater fanatic first and HD DVD supporter second. Right now HD DVD has won my support but Blu-ray also has that potential. IMHO it just hasn't got there yet, and I can't see a player that I want to buy yet, so I am taking Talkstr8ts advice and waiting on purchasing a Blu-ray player. I'm open to Blu-ray and since I think it will survive with Sony's support for a long time, I want it to be the best it can be. But I want at least one HD format to survive and right now IMHO HD DVD is making that happen and Blu-ray is just talking about it. YMMV.
post #106 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcrx View Post

I am sure a lot of folks remember this - maybe some don't:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_So...ection_scandal

Things like this are why I will never, ever give in to the Sony PoS machine or take anything they say as the truth. Just about wants me to skip their movie releases altogether no matter what format they are in or on.

At one time I really wanted to be format neutral but when I am reminded of this sort of thing I just cannot do it.

Things like the whole anti-trust illegal business practices and SCO funding that MS has been doing along with the Windows Genuine Advantage debacle don't exactly make me ooze confidence in any MS product either.

Let's fact it, neither of these companies are "model citizens"
post #107 of 207
Its ironic that the elitest attitude of the HD DVD proponents that deride Blu-ray content in the way that AmigoHD did actually made my decision for me. I like X-men. I like Spider-man. I like popcorn movies. Do I like movies like Schindler's List? Of course, but I like my blockbuster's too. Which would I rather see in HD? The eye candy. Insulting our content choice isn't going to make the undecided consumer jump to a side.

Doubly ironic is that Sony's arrogance pushed me to game on the 360 and Wii nearly exclusively.

*Sigh*
post #108 of 207
Thread Starter 
Top selling DVD's:

For week ending January 14th, 2007 (Rentrak)
Code:
From studios supporting Blu-ray: 19 of 20 (95%) (+10% from last week)
              Blu-ray exclusive: 15 of 20 (75%) (+15%)
From studios supporting HD DVD:   5 of 20 (25%) (-15%)
              HD DVD exclusive:   1 of 20  (5%) (-10%)
Top grossing movies:

For week ending January 18th, 2007 (Variety)
Code:
From studios supporting Blu-ray: 16 of 20 (80%) (-7% from last week)
              Blu-ray exclusive: 10 of 20 (50%) (+3%)
From studios supporting HD DVD:   9 of 20 (45%) (-8%)
              HD DVD exclusive:   3 of 20 (15%) (+2%)
From non-declared studios:        1 of 20  (5%) (+5%)
- Talk

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
post #109 of 207
This seems to currently be the closest thing we have to a breakdown of studio performance regarding optical disc sales. BD won't exactly parallel DVD of course, though it should follow a similar trend. Nice work Talk.
post #110 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac Hunt View Post

This seems to currently be the closest thing we have to a breakdown of studio performance regarding optical disc sales. BD won't exactly parallel DVD of course, though it should follow a similar trend. Nice work Talk.

As I mentioned in the other thread which obviously drew your attention to bump this agenda driven slanted information (yeah, "nice work") -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...83#post9601483

And just what is your "proof" that "BD...should follow a similar trend" to DVD releases at this point. I have noticed several DVD releases for Best Pictures ("Gandhi" 25th Anniversary & the millionth release of "The Silence of the Lambs") with no Blu-ray release even announced AFAIK.

So just tell me again, as I asked before in this thread, how is this a content scorecard for the format war since this is basically material NOT available in either format at this time (nor announced or scheduled?)
post #111 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anamorphiac View Post

As I mentioned in the other thread which obviously drew you attention to bump this agenda driven slanted information (yeah, "nice work") -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...83#post9601483

And just what is your "proof" that "BD...should follow a similar trend" to DVD releases at this point. I have noticed several DVD releases for Best Pictures ("Gandhi" 25th Anniversary & the millionth release of "The Silence of the Lambs") with no Blu-ray release even announced AFAIK.

So just tell again, as I asked before in this thread, how is this content scorecard for the format war since this is basically material NOT available in either format at this time (nor announced or scheduled?)

Silence of the Lambs BD is announced for 4/3/07.

You can even pre-order it here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...nandscathed-20

I hope you enjoyed your baseless trolling.
post #112 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anamorphiac View Post

As I mentioned in the other thread which obviously drew you attention to bump this agenda driven slanted information (yeah, "nice work") -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...83#post9601483

And just what is your "proof" that "BD...should follow a similar trend" to DVD releases at this point. I have noticed several DVD releases for Best Pictures ("Gandhi" 25th Anniversary & the millionth release of "The Silence of the Lambs") with no Blu-ray release even announced AFAIK.

So just tell again, as I asked before in this thread, how is this content scorecard for the format war since this is basically material NOT available in either format at this time (nor announced or scheduled?)

We do seem to have had an influx of new and unpleasant members recently, don't we.

This is clearly an indication of how future content on BD and HD DVD is likely to sell. If you can't see that then that's your own issue. Is it possible that consumers will decide to buy movies in different proportions when it comes to next gen. Yes. Is it likely? No. The fact that that some of these releases are not yet available or announced for HighDef formats is only relevant if you assume they are unlikely to be released.

Another interesting gauge of recent content is the box office figures, particularly for the last year, and the rolling total for each week as it passes. These will be the major sellers on DVD and almost certainly BD/HD. Catalogue titles are nice, and make up the bulk of my viewing, but they don't shift out of stores the same way new movies do. But then I'm not myopic enough to imagine my viewing habits are indicitive of the market as a whole.
post #113 of 207
Okay, sorry...I missed "The Silence of the Lambs" on 4-3...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac Hunt View Post

This is clearly an indication of how future content on BD and HD DVD is likely to sell.

But your above statement is still a terrible stretch at this stage of the game considering 1) the extremely limited penetration of HD disc in the market today AND 2) the format war itself limiting being the excuse of many to even sit out for now.

If you think that HD disc in either/any format selling like DVD and/or the box office numbers, then...well, I'll just quote you..."if you can't see that, then that's your own issue."

AND I stand by my initial statement...This thread is a misleading and slanted attempt to propagandize Blu-ray under the guise of "content" that for the majority of the items shown is NOT content at all...at least presently...and until it actually becomes content, it should not be called content (remember the title to this thread?)
post #114 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeLV View Post

Silence of the Lambs BD is announced for 4/3/07.

You can even pre-order it here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...nandscathed-20

I hope you enjoyed your baseless trolling.

As I posted above...sorry...I missed that one...but that doesn't change the fact there are DVD releases like "Gandhi" that have not even been mentioned for Blu-ray....so my point still is as posted previously and taking away one item in a list does not make a point "baseless." So now you can finish trolling as you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac Hunt View Post

We do seem to have had an influx of new and unpleasant members recently, don't we.

Issac, you and George can review my posts if you wish...they are normally not like this thread. But I do take issue and will speak out when many try to make a "content" argument out of "no content." Make your "more studio support" argument all you want...but just because that quits getting the response desired, don't make up "more content" arguments when we are clearly not talking "content" but just talking "hey guess what might/could happen...or maybe not." Which again brings the title of this thread (and many of the so called claims) into the incorrect and misleading category. Yes, with that I take issue.
post #115 of 207
Ghandi has been mentioned for BD, last year. As we know, "mentioned" doesn't necessarily mean a whole lot without a release date (for either format).

Anyway, I think the numbers speak for themselves, and it is clear where we will be in a year or so, at least for people who don't have a big chip on their shoulder about certain companies.
post #116 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by moore View Post

Anyway, I think the numbers speak for themselves, and it is clear where we will be in a year or so, at least for people who don't have a big chip on their shoulder about certain companies.

Guess I missed the surrender flag, too...
post #117 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anamorphiac View Post

If you think that HD disc in either/any format selling like DVD and/or the box office numbers, then...well, I'll just quote you..."if you can't see that, then that's your own issue."

This isn't about total volume, which is almost certainly going to sit very favourably in DVD's corner for many years yet. It's a question of proportionality, with DVD being a foreshadowing of HighDef sales, simply in a higher scale. This is just one more measure which can be used to estimate how sales of the competing formats are currently going, and more importantly how they are likely to sit (relative to each other) in the near future.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anamorphiac View Post

Issac, you and George can review my posts if you wish...they are normally not like this thread.

Yeah, sorry 'bout that. My disapointment with a new member in another thread probably spilled over into this one.
post #118 of 207
Thread Starter 
Top selling DVD's:

For week ending January 21st, 2007 (Rentrak)
Code:
From studios supporting Blu-ray: 19 of 20 (95%) (+0% from last week)
              Blu-ray exclusive: 13 of 20 (65%) (-10%)
From studios supporting HD DVD:   7 of 20 (35%) (+10%)
              HD DVD exclusive:   1 of 20  (5%) (+0%)
Top grossing movies:

For week ending January 25th, 2007 (Variety)
Code:
From studios supporting Blu-ray: 16 of 20 (80%) (+0% from last week)
              Blu-ray exclusive:  9 of 20 (45%) (-5%)
From studios supporting HD DVD:  11 of 20 (55%) (+10%)
              HD DVD exclusive:   4 of 20 (20%) (+5%)

Focus Features ("The Hitcher") considered Universal (HD-DVD)
Picturehouse ("Pan's Labyrinth") considered Warner Brothers (neutral)
- Talk

Blu-ray Insider
Speaking solely for myself, not the BDA
post #119 of 207
Nice to see some incontrovertible facts.

I think the key market motivator will be the exclusives. DVDs: 13/1 in favour of Blu-ray; Top-grossing Movies: 9/4 in favour of Blu-Ray.

All other things being equal (e.g. hardware, availability, marketing, etc. -- discussed to death elsewhere) these WILL translate into increased BD sales. If you don't believe that, I think that you must believe that "denial" is a river in Egypt
post #120 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Issac Hunt View Post

We do seem to have had an influx of new and unpleasant members recently, don't we.

This is clearly an indication of how future content on BD and HD DVD is likely to sell. If you can't see that then that's your own issue. Is it possible that consumers will decide to buy movies in different proportions when it comes to next gen. Yes. Is it likely? No. The fact that that some of these releases are not yet available or announced for HighDef formats is only relevant if you assume they are unlikely to be released.

I think I'll have to back Anamorphiac on this one.

I think his point is entirely valid. Most of the discussion here seems centered around trying to prove that BR is better based on titles that don't even exist on the format yet, when - to me, and I think MOST logical people - a "scorecard" should be based on what is actually out in either format, for a proper comparison.

All of this nonsense that "there are way more SD DVDs selling by this company or that company" are just background noise. It's like saying you should buy "X" car from "Y" company because they also make these "wicked" fighter jets. I never bought into those ads... ho hum.

Stating a format is superior because of all the DVDs they sell, when they haven't even announced most of them for the format is just plain silly. It fails to consider that by that time they actually *announce* any of these titles, that they will likely already be publishing in *both* HD formats.

Just my two cents - don't take it personally folks...
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