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The Official 3D Thread - Page 2

post #31 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandL View Post

I have a Sanyo PLV-Z4 projector and I'm wondering if the Sensio 3-D system will work with it.

Thanks,

Roland

I don't think so. The Sensio system requires 480i display device ... which are becoming extinct.
post #32 of 2161
The converter box can be retrofitted onto existing projectors for a little more than $1,000, Santoro said. That's a fraction of the cost of competing products such as the ZScreen monitor, which retails starting at $1,895. IBM's hardware is compatible with current VESA three-pin stereo interfaces.

http://news.com.com/IBM+demos+low-co....html?tag=item

I believe this is what Samsung is using.
post #33 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

The converter box can be retrofitted onto existing projectors for a little more than $1,000, Santoro said. That's a fraction of the cost of competing products such as the ZScreen monitor, which retails starting at $1,895. IBM's hardware is compatible with current VESA three-pin stereo interfaces.

http://news.com.com/IBM+demos+low-co....html?tag=item

I believe this is what Samsung is using.


120Hz DLP projector with one Z-screen (developed and patented by Lenny Lipton) is for passive stereo
and used glasses with circular polarisation.
Samsung not using Z-screen and to see in 3D you need active shutter glasses. But this good solution also and need less expensive lightweight plastic googles with circular polarisation.

The main fault of polarized 3-D systems for movies is more than 50% loss of screen brightness.
post #34 of 2161
Not sure if you guys are aware, but some existing DLP projectors are 3D ready. You may actually already own a 3D ready projector. In order to view 3d with a single projector you would need a decent computer and stereo 3d shutter glasses. You could set up the system for well under $1000 today. The cheapest compatible projector is the InFocus X1a at around $500 (though its not HD). For 720P you have the Panasonic PT-AE 700 E, but it runs for about $2000. With a single projector it would be displayed page-flipped (each eye would get one full image every other frame) using active stereo glasses. The hardware unit would be needed to sync the glasses to the image.

Here is a real basic list of the type of components you'd need:
http://amazon.com/gp/richpub/syltgui...1V7E8M0W9OTHD/

Heres a detailed forum post on available 3d ready projectors:
http://www.stereo3d.com/discus/messa...tml?1186363556

The main issue isn't the hardware (as usual), its the software. There is a total lack of decent 3d movies available right now. Many of them are classics, which is not a bad thing, but won't be anywhere near HD quality. As far as I know, Bugs3D on HD DVD is the only HD disc available. You can also get some IMAX 3D films on SD DVD and upscale them, but the selection is still rather limiting. But I am sure this will be the next big thing just after HDTV. The quality on 1080P is so good that the only thing they really have left is to go to 3d. Yes, I know about deep color and all that, but regular people will not notice. Anybody is going to notice when the image is popping out at you like a hologram. I really hope this technology gets marketed right when the time comes. You guys do know Lucus is working on remastering the Star Wars series in 3D right now? I think they should hit theaters in 2009. Knowing Lucus he will hold out on these forever, so don't be surprised if we are all sporting 72" 3D HDTVs in 2016 when he finally decides to release SW3D on a disc.
post #35 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybereality View Post

Not sure if you guys are aware, but some existing DLP projectors are 3D ready. You may actually already own a 3D ready projector. In order to view 3d with a single projector you would need a decent computer and stereo 3d shutter glasses. You could set up the system for well under $1000 today. The cheapest compatible projector is the InFocus X1a at around $500 (though its not HD).

DLP projector not good at 85Hz for 3D. At least need 120Hz as had Infocus/DepthQ SVGA DLP projector.
Christie, Barco cinema DLP pojector able to display at 144Hz.

Quote:


For 720P you have the Panasonic PT-AE 700 E, but it runs for about $2000. With a single projector it would be displayed page-flipped (each eye would get one full image every other frame) using active stereo glasses. The hardware unit would be needed to sync the glasses to the image.

How to set Panasonic PT-AE 700 E to display in pageflipped mode 120Hz ?
post #36 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

DLP projector not good at 85Hz for 3D. At least need 120Hz as had Infocus/DepthQ SVGA DLP projector.
Christie, Barco cinema DLP pojector able to display at 144Hz.

Yeah, you are right about that. Anything less than 100Hz will cause ghosting and flicker which will lessen the quality of the stereo image (and also probably give you a headache after a while). I was merely letting people know that there are low-cost solutions that exist today for this type of technology.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

How to set Panasonic PT-AE 700 E to display in pageflipped mode 120Hz ?

I don't own that model, I'm just going on what I have read. My guess is that you could connect it via VGA to a dual-head video card on a good PC, have that VGA cable running through a sync box and connect a pair of active lcd shutter glasses. Then use a program like Stereoscopic Player (http://www.3dtv.at) to de-interlace a field-sequential 3d video and display it as page-flipped.
post #37 of 2161
post #38 of 2161
post #39 of 2161
DDD Corporation present "TriDef 3D Experience" package of software.

The TriDef 3D Experience is a comprehensive package of software to support a wide range of stereoscopic 3D display systems, including Samsung's DLP(R) 3-D HDTVs.
Features

* Play a wide range of 2D and 3D movies and photos, including open format files (.avi, .mpg, .jpg, etc).
* Explore Google Earth in 3D.
* Play 3D games.
* Enable third party applications to work on 3D Displays.
* Watch your current 2D DVDs in 3D.

The TriDef Experience includes DDD's unique 2D-to-3D conversion software enabling existing 2D photos, movies and DVDs to be enjoyed in dynamic 3D.

http://www.tridef.com/download/TriDe...ience-3.0.html
post #40 of 2161
There is a very pro-3d article by BusinessWeek:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...+entertainment

Based on this quote, it appears Dreamworks will be releasing *only* 3d movies starting 2009:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessWeek View Post

Later this year, Paramount will release a 3D version of director Robert Zemeckis' big-budget fantasy film Beowulf in several theaters, including Imax, which already shows many films in 3D. Next year, New Line Cinema releases its remake of Journey to the Center of the Earth entirely in 3D. Disney, which until now had made a limited number of its animated films in 3D, signed Zemeckis to make future animated films for them purely in 3D. "Until now it was a chicken-and-egg thing," says Richard Cook, chairman of Walt Disney Studios. "There just weren't enough screens for us to make films just for 3D."

There's an element of self-interest in Katzenberg's campaign. The 3D technology is best suited for special-effects and animated films like those produced by his company. DreamWorks has said it plans to release only 3D movies to theaters, starting in 2009 with an animated horror movie, Monsters vs. Aliens, as well as the latest in its Shrek franchise.

This is going to be huge. With Beowulf coming out in a few months, and big 3d blockbusters in 09, I really feel like 3d is going to be the next big thing. I seriously hope some of these flicks will be released on HDM in stereo 3d. That would really drive the point home that HDM is next generation technology.
post #41 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybereality View Post

There is a very pro-3d article by BusinessWeek:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...+entertainment

Based on this quote, it appears Dreamworks will be releasing *only* 3d movies starting 2009:


This is going to be huge. With Beowulf coming out in a few months, and big 3d blockbusters in 09, I really feel like 3d is going to be the next big thing. I seriously hope some of these flicks will be released on HDM in stereo 3d. That would really drive the point home that HDM is next generation technology.

Approx 1000 Digital Cinemas in the USA. They have to be outfitted with a 2nd PJ for the 3D to work. IMAX 3D already uses 2 PJ's.

Supposed to be over 5000 DC's by the time Cameron's Avatar (3D) comes out.

So far- home 3D only works with a DLP based RPTV or a expensive modification to a DLP FPTV.

Very limited market. Mits did show a 2D to 3D BD player but again - limited use.

It would be nice to see, after 50 years, real 3D come to the home . . . but on this one - "I am from Missouri - Show Me!"
post #42 of 2161
One DLP projector and shutter glasses, synced to the PJ shows 120hz(fps) and the glasses supplies 60hz(fps) to each eye.
No need for 2 PJ's.
This is how Meet the Robinsons was shown in 3D worldwide.
I belive this is what James Cameron is going to use for the two films Avatar and Battle Angel 3D versions.

http://www.dlp.com/hdtv/3-d_dlp_hdtv.aspx

http://www.dlp.com/downloads/DLP%203...Technology.pdf
post #43 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolscan View Post

One DLP projector and shutter glasses, synced to the PJ shows 120hz(fps) and the glasses supplies 60hz(fps) to each eye.
No need for 2 PJ's.
This is how Meet the Robinsons was shown in 3D worldwide.
I belive this is what James Cameron is going to use for the two films Avatar and Battle Angel 3D versions.

http://www.dlp.com/hdtv/3-d_dlp_hdtv.aspx

http://www.dlp.com/downloads/DLP&#37...Technology.pdf

Not sure. He has experience shooting in 3D using 2 cameras - T2 The Ride and Ghosts of Titanic

It's not your grandpa's 3-D as technology expandsBy Carolyn Giardina The Hollywood Reporter Aug 31, 2007

You've got your popcorn and a drink, your main squeeze is by your side, and you're settling in to watch the latest hit movie. You slap on your 3-D glasses and fixate on the big screen.

You're in your living room.

Sound odd? It might not be that far off. Paramount expects about 1,000 3-D-ready digital cinema screens to be installed in North America theaters in time for the Nov. 16 release of "Beowulf."

While the digital cinema movement has prompted a rebirth of interest in stereoscopic 3-D in movie theaters, the dialogue is quickly expanding to home entertainment.

"We will have 3-D in the home, definitely," said Chris Cookson, president of Warner Bros. Technical Operations and chief technology officer for the Warner Bros. Entertainment group of companies. "All the things that we need have been invented. It's just a matter of someone committing to bring it to market. The question we all have is: Does it become a fad or part of the mainstream?"

Buzz Hays, senior producer 3-D stereoscopic feature films at Sony Pictures Imageworks, believes that with today's more advanced digital projection methods, special glasses and production techniques, the perception of 3-D as a gimmick is beginning to change. "It was a different time," he said of the 3-D fad in the 1950s. "It seemed to be more about the technology (than content). Now I think we are past that."


On the theatrical side, such leading filmmakers as James Cameron and Robert Zemeckis are serious about developing quality theatrical 3-D content, contributing to a new level of confidence in the market. Paramount Pictures expects about 1,000 3-D-ready digital cinema screens to be installed in North America theaters in time for the studio's Nov. 16 release of Zemeckis' "Beowulf."

With all this, some stakeholders predict that the introduction of 3-D home entertainment is imminent. "We can and have started to migrate many of these (3-D) technologies into consumer products for shooting, editing, broadcasting and displaying 3-D content in the home," 3ality principal Sandy Climan said.

So what will home viewers need in their living rooms? A 3-D-ready display (some of which are already on the market), special glasses and modified playback means (coming soon).

Several set manufacturers have unveiled 3-D-ready displays. Texas Instruments' DLP technology was developed to be 3-D-ready, and that capability is built in to many DLP displays. Said TI's DLP brand and marketing manager Doug Darrow: "We're basically giving the consumer the option to future-proof their TV purchase."

Many of Samsung's 2007 DLP HDTV sets are 3-D ready, and next month the company plans to release a package that includes new Tri-Def 3-D Experience software from DDD, LCD shutter glasses and other accessories to enable 3-D from a PC platform. Samsung and DDD, a 3-D software and content company, said the package means that such popular PC games as "The Sims" and "Dome" can be played in stereoscopic 3-D. In addition, DDD CEO Chris Yewdall said that features played through the system also could be viewed in the format.

Others believe that video games will be the first 3-D application to penetrate the home entertainment market.

As for features, industry leaders report that both Blu-ray Disc and competing HD DVD could accommodate the content, and some suggest standard DVD could as well. Numerous studios are examining this opportunity to create another market for its 3-D-produced content.

This is not a completely new idea. Robert Rodriguez's "Spy Kids 3-D" was released in a DVD package with glasses for 3-D viewing in the home.

Further out is the development of auto-stereo methods -- stereo imagery that is viewable without the use of special glasses. "The problem (with auto-stereo) is marrying the technology with 3-D content production," Real D CEO Michael Lewis said, explaining that the production requirements would be different. "I think realistically it's three to five years away."

Real D offers a digital 3D theatrical projection system that uses circular polarized glasses that are certainly much sleeker than the cardboard ones of yesteryear that resided uncomfortably on your ears.

Broadcasting in 3-D, most seem to agree, also is further out because the content needs to be created in the format, though the industry already has seen the potential through successful demonstrations of live 3-D event coverage to digital cinema environments. The 2007 NBA All-Star Game screenings in March is a high-profile example.

Meanwhile, a call for 3-D home entertainment technical delivery standards has started, perhaps the biggest indicator that Hollywood is getting serious about this subject. The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers, for instance, is beginning to explore this topic.

"I believe that probably within the next several months we'll create a work statement," said Warner Bros. Technical Operations vp technology Wendy Aylsworth, who chairs the SMPTE DC28 digital cinema standards committee. "I think we'll see activity start up on that."

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/...7bc2278a578f00
post #44 of 2161
For those of you interested in how the 3D technology works in the DLP rear projection units TI has information about it up on the DLP site:

www.dlp.com/3d

Also, the format is getting some support from the open source community with projects such as OSG (http://www.openscenegraph.org/) supporting the technology.
post #45 of 2161
post #46 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricko View Post

I think that if it could be possible to "Convert" a regular 2D movie to a 3D with a processor, 3D could be the next big thing.

Virtual reality interactive movies... now THAT's what I'm waiting for....

Have you heard of next generation video games buddy? Google Bioshock, Half Life 2 and Drake's Uncharted.
post #47 of 2161
George Lucas
Peter Jackson
James Cameron
Rick McCallum
Randal Kleiser
Dennis Muren

Love 3d-Movies http://www.in-three.com/default.asp?contentID=581
post #48 of 2161
3D with Red Digital 4K Cameras


(PHOTO: Max Penner seen adjusting the Red 4K 3D Paracam. Photo Copyright Steve Gibby)

A quantum leap in 3D content production and stereographic post-production from a tapeless workflow, resulted in a successful 3D test shoot and screening on Saturday, September 1st . Producers Steve Gibby and Kenneth Corben of GibCor, teamed up with their 3D production partners Max Penner and Tim Thomas at Paradise FX to produce one of the first stereo 3D shoots originating with RED 4K cameras.

GibCor provided RED camera #8 and their associate, Billy Summers, provided RED camera #13. Both were literally “out of the box” from the first 25 RED cameras released on August 31st. The team shot a 4K 3D dual camera test, and captured REDCODE RAW to two RED 8 GB compact flash cards.

The production alliance between GibCor and Paradise FX has been in development on their RED 4K 3D projects since February in anticipation of the cameras’ release this year. “The results of this first RED 4K 3D shoot will enable us to bring great stories, shot in stereo 3D, to audiences like never before,” said producer Steve Gibby. The RED 4K cameras were fitted with a pair of RED compact zooms (18-50mm) and mounted to the Paracam. The Paracam is a 3D camera system that employs a beam splitter and has digital control of the inter-axial and convergent positioning of each of the RED ONE cameras. By Noon the team was viewing 3D content, originating from a tapeless 4K workflow.

The 4K 3D post workflow was seamless thanks to ASSIMILATE’s SCRATCH® Digital Intermediate Process Solution and technical support from Lucas Wilson of ASSIMILATE™. The 4K REDCODE RAW (.r3d) files were imported from CF cards into a beta version of REDCINE running on an Intel based Mac system. The left and right eye files were de-bayered from 4K RAW to 2K files then imported to SCRATCH as .dpx files. SCRATCH allowed for “plug and play” into Paradise’s dual projection system for quick stereo 3D playback. After the screening, veteran 3D stereographer Max Penner said, “To take 2 cameras that have never been tested out of the box, then shoot and project 3D all in one day, is almost unheard of. All done with no umbilical cables, tape decks or digitizing. This changes everything!”

In anticipation of the continued global rollout of stereoscopic 3D enabled theaters and growing content demand, Paradise FX and GibCor are in negotiations with several major studios regarding this technology and it’s implementation in the motion picture industry. This is the first of a succession of stereo 3D tests with the RED ONE camera. Ongoing tests will help to define a workflow to apply to future 3D productions in both Large Format Film and Digital Theatrical Releases. The RED ONE camera has a small 3D form factor with a high resolution at a decent price, making it highly promising for future 3D films.

www.cut4.tv
www.kennethcorben.com
post #49 of 2161
Philips demos 3D VOD at IBC
8 September 2007 23:55 by Dela

Along with eventIS, Philips has successfully completed testing of 3D video-on-demand (VoD) using eventIS metadata systems and Philips 3D displays. This proves that the new 3D video format, based on 2D-plus-depth, can easily be integrated into existing media distribution and management systems such as video-on-demand via cable, satellite, Internet or terrestrial broadcasting.

3D-TV could become the next big thing in television, showing the world as it really is and making content richer, more immersive, and more exciting for the viewer. Recent developments in 3D screens has scraped the need for special glasses to view the content. Earlier this year Deutsche Telekom and Philips demonstrated interactive 3D applications like movies, home shopping and online games.

In the IBC demo, eventIS make use of a library that consists of 3D animated, stereoscopic and 2D-to-3D converted videos. eventIS metadata management systems are used by major European VoD operators. They automate the complete VoD flow from subscriber requests, to video assets management and monetization.

"Easy distribution of any 3D content over existing infrastructures will be a key success factor for 3D-TV," says Jos Swillens, CEO of Philips 3D Solutions. "The 3D format known as 2D-plus-depth is now standardized in MPEG, and offers the flexibility to deliver a high-quality 3D viewing experience with minimal bandwidth requirements."

"Experiencing TV content at its most immersive and realistic is not a distant prospect, but is already a reality through 3D VoD," says Erwin van Dommelen, CEO at eventIS. "The combination of exciting 3D content and 3D displays is the new way to experience high-impact digital TV content on demand

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/11039.cfm
post #50 of 2161
my dad just ordered the led samsung 61 inch tv that does 3D, that was after the fan gave out on the hp 58 inch and the bulb poped from over heating.

going to see about the 3D stuff for xmas for him
post #51 of 2161
post #52 of 2161
post #53 of 2161
I've always believed frame sequential (or page-flipping, whatever you want to call it) 3-D was the way forward for true stereoscopic imagery on TV. While Digital 3-D has recently solved many of the inherent problems with dual-strip presentations in theaters, home viewers have been stuck with anaglyph and quasi-dimensional formats like Pulfrich 3-D and ChromaDepth. The new DLP 3-D formats are a massive step in the right direction.

One thing bothers me, though (and I'm sure there's a pretty obvious explanation): The theatrical Digital 3-D version increases the frame-rate per second in increments of 24, so as to retain the cinematic running time of 24fps. For example, at 144fps, each left-right frame is repeated three times in succession (L1 L1 L1, R1 R1 R1, L2 L2 L2, R2 R2 R2, and so on), requiring six images for every left-right frame (144 divided by 6 = 24).

However, DLP HD technology increases the frame-rate by increments of 30, which is the old NTSC standard (30fps). Each left-right image is transmitted twice in succession (four images for every left-right frame), which appears to be good enough for TV/video. But given that this is an HD format, not dependent on the NTSC/PAL standard, why not replicate the images in film-friendly increments of 24fps (theatrical Digital 3-D can run at 96 or 144fps)? And if it has something to do with maintaining the NTSC signal for non-HD broadcasts, what does this mean for PAL countries? Will these sets be configured at 100Hz or 150Hz (probably the former)?

These may seem like obvious questions, but I think at this stage, they're certainly worth asking.
post #54 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Shaw View Post

I've always believed frame sequential (or page-flipping, whatever you want to call it) 3-D was the way forward for true stereoscopic imagery on TV. While Digital 3-D has recently solved many of the inherent problems with dual-strip presentations in theaters, home viewers have been stuck with anaglyph and quasi-dimensional formats like Pulfrich 3-D and ChromaDepth. The new DLP 3-D formats are a massive step in the right direction.

One thing bothers me, though (and I'm sure there's a pretty obvious explanation): The theatrical Digital 3-D version increases the frame-rate per second in increments of 24, so as to retain the cinematic running time of 24fps. For example, at 144fps, each left-right frame is repeated three times in succession (L1 L1 L1, R1 R1 R1, L2 L2 L2, R2 R2 R2, and so on), requiring six images for every left-right frame (144 divided by 6 = 24).

However, DLP HD technology increases the frame-rate by increments of 30, which is the old NTSC standard (30fps). Each left-right image is transmitted twice in succession (four images for every left-right frame), which appears to be good enough for TV/video. But given that this is an HD format, not dependent on the NTSC/PAL standard, why not replicate the images in film-friendly increments of 24fps (theatrical Digital 3-D can run at 96 or 144fps)? And if it has something to do with maintaining the NTSC signal for non-HD broadcasts, what does this mean for PAL countries? Will these sets be configured at 100Hz or 150Hz (probably the former)?

These may seem like obvious questions, but I think at this stage, they're certainly worth asking.

The new HDTV's are set at 120Hz. When you split that in half you come up with 60/60 for L & R eye. They will take the 24Fps and do a 3:2 pulldown to get it to 30 then double to 60. This is how both the Samsung 3D RPTV and the Mits BD 3D player will take regular 2D images and turn them into 3D.
post #55 of 2161
The new HDTV's are set at 120Hz. When you split that in half you come up with 60/60 for L & R eye. They will take the 24Fps and do a 3:2 pulldown to get it to 30 then double to 60.

From descriptions I've read elsewhere, your breakdown of this system is right on the button. But the question still remains: Why the need for 3:2 pulldown on a HD format at all? Why not simply encode in increments of 24 and have hardware/software that replicates images at 24, 48, 96 and/or 144fps? Why be 'tied down' to the 30fps NTSC standard when DLP 3-D is intended for playback on HD monitors (and, in due course, Blu-ray and HD-DVD), which isn't restricted by the current frame-rates of NTSC/PAL/SECAM?
post #56 of 2161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Shaw View Post

The new HDTV's are set at 120Hz. When you split that in half you come up with 60/60 for L & R eye. They will take the 24Fps and do a 3:2 pulldown to get it to 30 then double to 60.

From descriptions I've read elsewhere, your breakdown of this system is right on the button. But the question still remains: Why the need for 3:2 pulldown on a HD format at all? Why not simply encode in increments of 24 and have hardware/software that replicates images at 24, 48, 96 and/or 144fps? Why be 'tied down' to the 30fps NTSC standard when DLP 3-D is intended for playback on HD monitors (and, in due course, Blu-ray and HD-DVD), which isn't restricted by the current frame-rates of NTSC/PAL/SECAM?

It is to my understanding and please if I am wrong - someone correct me - BD can do dual stream 1080. HD DVD cannot.

That said you can encode a real 3D movie as two 1080x24P streams from a BD player like the Mits that was announced. It would output as two streams converted to 48hz each for a total of 96 hz. The problem are the displays - they don't do this refresh rate. Only expensive projectors can do it.

Plus there are no real 3D movies yet on the market.

With the system they are going to use, yes judder will be there, but the refresh rate will be higher - 60hz for each eye. And existing 2D content can be made to look 3D.

What I am saying is that there has to be a releationship between what is available and how much it costs. And the fact that the RPTV is the smallest segment of the sales of HDTV's.
post #57 of 2161
they should just up the refresh rate to 240hz 2 120hz signals = problem solved
post #58 of 2161
Mitsubishi Offers Sneak Peek at 3D HDTV

http://www.tvpredictions.com/mitsu3d092507.htm
post #59 of 2161
Thought I would bump this thread also because we are only 2 days away from 3D's rebirth . . . BEOWULF . . . which will be playing in 700 D-Cinemas across the country along with about 100 IMAX theaters.

Will 3D finally become successful?
post #60 of 2161
you are not taking about the tech of 3D but the artistic direction. bad 3D movies would use it for objects that are thrown at you, so then you would not see them return.

full 3D objects can move back and forth and side to side, it all depends on how the director sets the field of view. expand the 3D field of view and it will look like it has lots of depth, this is good for closeups and medium shots only. the reason is you only see in stereo if an object is fairly close to you.

all distant shots should use a compact 3D field or it will look like what you see when you look through binoculars. that is a very unrealistic 3D field of view, but has been used just for a WOW factor.
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