Hitachi 51/57/65F59A CRT RPTV Tweaks Thread - Page 143

Originally Posted by lordcloud

I also turned StatG2 from 3 to 0 and lowered my contrast by 4 to compensate. I noticed no major change in picture quality, negative or positive, but im keeping it off if I don't need it on.

Originally Posted by lordcloud

After looking a bit harder(the scene in TFE where the first priest is holding the vial of poison), it seems like StatG2 is keeping whites from blooming, so its back to 3 for now.

Originally Posted by VivatHD

Been fat dumb and happy awhile, but noticed pic on my 51F59 needed freshening up so I cleaned the optics, using the trusty Sprayway canned aerosol glass cleaner (amonia free) numerous fluffy paper towels, and a brand new lens cleaning cloth obtained from my local optician (designed for cleaning plastic eyeglass lenses w/o scratching). I hit it with Sprayway and wait 12 seconds, then blot with the paper towels, repeat, then more sprayway and gently wipe. Once dry I fog them with breath (forms fine layer of pure condensate water vapor) and gently wipe with the lens cloth. Works like a charm.

But, after firing it back and cleaning up the convergence... it isn't holding. I had it dialed in uber tight for ther movie "Blood Diamond" the other night in HD on cable, looked like a million bucks I tell you. Next day I fire it up and it became apparent after warm-up that the prior night's tune did not hold. Sure enough, pulling up the 117 pt user grid revealed blue and red had moved apart both in the verticle and the horizontal... but mainly the verticle. Dont want to go through this dance again, not really. Prior to the lens cleaning it had been holding rock solid for a loooong time.

I fear there is nothing I can do if the convergence keeping letting go so quickly. I'm not tech enough to solder in new convergence IC's or anything like that. As you all know there is nothing more frustrating that seeing what these TV's can do (after a tight convergence tune-in) and then having it slip from your grasp and the pq drift back into mediocrity so quickly.

Originally Posted by lordcloud

After having a few days to really evaluate the changes, as well as compare my set to a $40,000 plus, Runco 3 chip dlp(that is amazing by the way), I implore all of you to give my idea a try. Set everything from
YCGA down to DGAREA to 0, STATG1 to 7, STATG2 to 3, and everything from WPS to BSTRP to 0, and see if you're seeing richer, deeper, and more varied colors. Along with more dynamic range evrywhere. Contrast being tamed and extraneous processing being turned off, has had such an incredible impact on my picture. I really am wondering if this level of improvement is universal. I would honestly love some feedback from anyone that tries it.

Originally Posted by Mr Bob

Your optics cleaning was done in an excellent fashion. But there's no way JUST doing an optics cleaning can have a deleterious effect on your convergence. Did you do it in User, or in DCAM? If in User, maybe you need to do a DCAM version and maybe it will hold from then on. Did you do the deeper optics? If so you need to make sure each lens got back on just the way it came off - not traded with another color, not turned 90 or 180 degrees from where it started.

Have your grid lines been set for average light level or are they still at factory settings, which are way too hot and thick for fine convergence work?

That said, those ICs do eventually wear out and need replacement, just like - as I have said many times - a car's thermostat. They may have reached that point, and it may be coincidental that it was just after your optics cleaning op.

Have a buddy who is great with a soldering iron do it. Do a trade with him if you can't afford to have a tech do it. Then wait the requisite 100 hours of drift period before expecting them to lock your convergence properly from then on.

No way you should lose the incredible pic you're used to just because you cleaned the optics. I have cleaned the optics on countless sets, and would have seen a pattern about this by now.

I have not.

Keep your set alive. Don't allow this hiccup to get in the way. You have every right to that.


Mr Bob

Originally Posted by lordcloud

Set everything from YCGA down to DGAREA to 0, STATG1 to 7, STATG2 to 3, and everything from WPS to BSTRP to 0, and see if you're seeing richer, deeper, and more varied colors. Along with more dynamic range evrywhere. Contrast being tamed and extraneous processing being turned off, has had such an incredible impact on my picture. I really am wondering if this level of improvement is universal. I would honestly love some feedback from anyone that tries it.

Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast

As I suspected (having done the original research when I got my meter), changing STATG1 greatly affects the gamma. I made the changes you suggest, and gamma went from 2.17 to 1.79. I kept the other changes and returned STATG1 to 0 and gamma was 2.21.
It looked very nice, but I was still not happy with my blue (new gun), so I futzed with it again and redid everything. I'm using your settings except with STATG1 at 0. Gamma's at 2.35 and not as flat as it was, but my contrast ratio is phenomenal, and I don't see any artifacts of any kind.
I suggest you change STATG1 back to 0 and alter brightness/contrast as needed.
Michael

Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast

As I suspected (having done the original research when I got my meter), changing STATG1 greatly affects the gamma.

...
Michael

Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast

As I suspected (having done the original research when I got my meter), changing STATG1 greatly affects the gamma. I made the changes you suggest, and gamma went from 2.17 to 1.79. I kept the other changes and returned STATG1 to 0 and gamma was 2.21.
It looked very nice, but I was still not happy with my blue (new gun), so I futzed with it again and redid everything. I'm using your settings except with STATG1 at 0. Gamma's at 2.35 and not as flat as it was, but my contrast ratio is phenomenal, and I don't see any artifacts of any kind.
I suggest you change STATG1 back to 0 and alter brightness/contrast as needed.
Michael

Originally Posted by VivatHD

Thx Bob,
I had reconverged using the drift resistant method I used with success way back when:

1. Dial in tight 117 pt user convergence, save (select "done")
2. go into DCAM, touch up if needed, save to ROM
3. Initialize Magic Focus
4. Exit DCAM
5. Put remote back into normal mode via TV+0+1 while remote pointed away from TV (so TV doesn't shut off)
6. Go back into user 177 pt, no changed but save again.

Sounds a little OCD but it worked well last time. But then again, it may well be that last time I simply had hit the "sweet spot" for the convergence IC's and they were happy with the tune and not stressed by it and thus held it. Perhaps this time I somehow missed the sweet spot as far as the re-alignment went and the saved convergence put more stress on the ICs. Perhaps.

Since the other night's post, I spent some time re-doing it (lastnight) and so far it seems to have held.

If however an entire color shifts, then I'm going to use DCAM to move the entire color instead of point by point. After the lens cleaning, both red and blue seemed to have shifted uniformly but not having had my head into this for a long time I *forgot* about the DCAM function where you can move an entire color, the entire grid of that color... and did a point by point instead. Doh!

Originally Posted by Mr Bob

Never leave the Magic Focus as your last entry. It always mulches up an otherwise great convergence.

Originally Posted by lordcloud

Finally got the picture to look good with StatG1 and StatG2 at 0. Took a lot of meddling with brightness and contrast. I (surprisingly)actually liked what they did to the picture since it was relatively subtle and not easy to spot, but I'm happier without having to use them.

Originally Posted by Mr Bob

...in getting myself Level II certified, which I finally am.

Originally Posted by Mr Bob

No, Bob just has the one, which he has yet to actually use in a calibration. I have used it to master the use of it, have taken down copious readings to get to D65 nirvana, and have had several sessions with ISF's Bob Fucci, in getting myself Level II certified, which I finally am.

But have not used it in a calibration yet. Still love my optical comparator. Do have 2 of those...

b

Originally Posted by VivatHD

Actually, the 2nd time I re-did it in DCAM, I skipped Magic Focus Initialize step and just exited DCAM right after the ROM save. It seems to be holding, so far. So there might be something about running it through the MF Initialize after saving to ROM that unsettles the convergence IC's, who knows.

I don't use MF anyhow, and I don't want anyone hitting the MF button and borking all the convergence work I've done so leaving it disabled works for me. If for some reason I ever need it enabled I can always go into DCAM and Initialize it.

Originally Posted by -Fluffy65-

Hey everyone. I've never posted in this thread before, and quite frankly I'm rather stunned that people are still messing with these sets. After the "fun" I had with mine, I figured that very few people were still using the 59As.

I bought my 57F59A new on January 1st, 2007. I got a good deal at the time, and always had the mentality going in that this was/is a low-mid level set at best, and not fully trusting the "new" microdisplays at that time, I figured I'd use it for a few years and then it'd make it's way to my garage or rec-room as a secondary "meh" TV set. I ended up replacing it with a 58" Panasonic plasma last October, and have not really touched it since.

Here's a question or two: did they ever fix the HDMI picture shift, and are your sets still slightly goofy on alignment? I was just having a conversation about my Hitachi today, and am slightly torn between keeping this set, or selling it. The question for me is about, what it's worth to sell, and what it's worth to keep it. If some of the issues that constantly annoyed me have simple fixes, that will add more weight to my "keep it" option.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you guys give me.

Ross

Originally Posted by Mr Bob

These Hitachis are definitely not "meh" sets! You have no idea what you've been missing all these years. Start with getting your optics cleaned, and deep cleaned also if necessary.

Yes they have cured the HDMI issues. Search out data - posts and threads - from jwebb. He personally spearheaded a movement to correct all that stuff in their HDMI circuits. They listened, and now offer a free on location upgrade to your sets, to get rid of all that former insanity.

Once the grid lines have been reduced to sane, medium light levels on your User convergence, User mode can be used to fine tune your convergence to being tight as a tack.

You have a fine unit there, no need to replace it with anything. With the prices on these babies at about the same values as housing today, there's no point in trying to get any money out of it, you won't. It is much more valuable to you by keeping it and using it as your main display.



b

Originally Posted by jwebb1970

I was a "guinea pig" for one of the 1st field tests by Hitachi for the F59 HDMI fix. Having marshalled support from others here, we kept hammering away @ Hitachi until a fix happened (well...2 fixes actually, the 2nd being the repair job of swapping out one of the boards).

If/when you do set up your repair, make sure to mention either to the Hitachi rep you speak to, but more importantly the tech doing the job, to see about swapping out your set's original DCU (where the conv. circuitry is located). This way, any changes you have made to convergenece and/or DCAM patterns/overscan will carry over to the new set. This way, the worst you will have to do is touch up the convergence after the job. Otherwise, the set will revert to an uncorrected state & have to have all convergence & geometry redone from scratch.




Also, while it's flattering to hear Bob mention me spearheading this fix - I can't take all the credit. I was one of many voices crying for a fix. I think in my case - being in close proximity to Hitachi US's SoCal location - as well as responding to all email & phone msgs I would get from Hitachi engineers & customer care over the course of everything - led to my being one of, if not the 1st, F59 owner to get the fix performed. Hitachi overnighted the parts directly to me & contacted my closest authorized tech (fortunately, said tech is excellenet & actually knows CRT tech well) to meet me & the new parts @ my home the following day. Job was performed in my living room & done in less than an hour.

The DCU swap was not part of Hitachi's original plans - however, after I spoke on the phone w/ a Hitachi engineer in L.A., he stated that this would actually be the way to go, as it would cut a considerable amount of work (and TIME charged to Hitachi) out of the fix. Much faster to touch up some convergence errors that to have to redo it all from scratch. And let's face it....the DCU idea initially came to me from Mr Bob during discussions here in this very forum (he's a freaking CRT RPTV genius, I tell you!! )

BTW - for more detailed info regarding the HDMI woes & how to fix 'em - check this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...f59+hdmi+shift

Originally Posted by -Fluffy65-

Did any of you have to pay the labor charge to have your board replaced? Even if the set is out of warranty? Please let me know ASAP. As I am willing to fight with them over this. Thanks.

Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast

You are welcome to fight them, but I don't know what recourse you may have considering that the set has been out of warranty for so long and the repair was voluntary on their part.
No, I did not pay for labor.
It may pay for you to get the part and have someone you know who's handy with a soldering iron do the work for the cost of a nice dinner.
Or you can just not use the HDMI input. Do you have an image shift problem? Not everyone does/did.
These sets are capable of fabulous output. Some work is required, of course. But that's what this whole thread is about.
Good luck, and keep us posted.
Michael

Originally Posted by lordcloud

After having some more viewing time under my belt, I have come to believe that the processing I've recently turned off, is meant to compensate for singer of CRT's shortcomings. Namely, gamma and black crush. The issue with the processing is that it creates other, more objectionable (to me at least) picture quality issues. I am much happier dealing with black crush, after being able to getting a closer glimpse at what my set is capable of.

I can now see that with the previous settings engaged, I was losing a tremendous amount of detail, resolution, color, and dimensionality. The blowing out of the whites (a feature that was undetectable not having known it was there) was negatively impacting picture quality to an unacceptable degree, now that I know about it. I can see things in the picture I had no clue were there. Colors look far less overblown as well. I want to say a lot more, and I may not be as clear as I'd like to be, but writing this out on my phone isn't easy.

I'll report back later.

Originally Posted by VivatHD

What is Black Crush and why is it bad? It sounds like bad thing, I was just wondering how it is exhibited in the picture. I have StatG1 @ 6 and StatG2 @ 2, then in the regular user video menu I have Contrast @ 26 and Brightness @ 71. Really like the pq exhibited with those settings. Factory defaults were StatG1 @ 0 and StatG2 @ 3. I have user video menu Brightness is set so high mainly because SubBright in the Service Menu is for some reason set lower than the 1st 51F59 I had (1st TV replaced with this one under warranty in 2007 due to geometry problem repairman could not resolve). On the 1st one this same approx black level (brightness) was achieved at a user video Brightness setting of around 58 - 60 if I remember right... again due to that TV having had a higher number in SubBright of the Service menu.