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Hitachi 51/57/65F59A CRT RPTV Tweaks Thread - Page 146

post #4351 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang68 View Post

My convergence is always coming out a little, especially with red. I think its because I have never did a proper jig or similar technique so there's always a strain on the grid lines pulling them out of convergence. Just a guess.

If you find a solution, please share it, since I have that problem, too. I blame it on facing magnetic north.

We also get a radio station on our telephones, so we're used to weirdness like this.

Since the new chips are (hopefully) broken in, I just finished a major overhaul. Shimmed the left side of the red lens and the right side of the blue, put a strip of tape on the left edge of the red lens, flicked a speck of dust off the mirror (), focus, geometry, convergence, etc.
Running out of things to take pictures of. Might actually have to WATCH something one day.
Good luck with my i1.
Michael
post #4352 of 4822
If you change your sizing with the points rather than the more universal ways, like geometry registers and/or the H and W trimpots, the points will be being stressed at all times, and will be tugged upon and drift. The points need to stay near their centerpoints, to stay locked in place effortlessly.

Be careful of using tape for lenstriping right on the lens itself. It could bond to the plastic surface and never come off again.

If you're sure it's doing its job properly, then of course it can stay on there forever.

b
post #4353 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

If you change your sizing with the points rather than the more universal ways, like geometry registers and/or the H and W trimpots, the points will be being stressed at all times, and will be tugged upon and drift. The points need to stay near their centerpoints, to stay locked in place effortlessly.

Be careful of using tape for lenstriping right on the lens itself. It could bond to the plastic surface and never come off again.

If you're sure it's doing its job properly, then of course it can stay on there forever.

b

Last time I started over, I reset H and V to spec, then did everything from DCAM. You are saying that it is BETTER to use the H and V trimpots?

The lens is recessed enough that the tape is no where near it.

And you should know by now that "forever" around here means about a month.
post #4354 of 4822
How on earth do you set your H and W trimpots "to spec"??? There are no markings on them, and like those on the focus block, they are very sensitive to ANY turning of them. Where is spec??? Where they came out of the box? Guess you could call it that, but I doubt that any of the Hitachi techs would, or do. I would not personally call the OOB settings for those trimpots "spec". Far from it. Each of those trimpots is fully variable.

The best thing to do is to mark them very exactly OOB with a very thin Sharpie pen before changing either of them, and use these settings as your baseline. Then at least you know where you started. But there is no "spec" here to start at. Only their OOB starting points.

If I were really being plagued by drift, I would go to each point, set it to its center position hor and vert'ly, and watch in solemn bliss at how that messes everything up.

Then I would do the H and W trimpots with the right pattern - remember, those trimpots affect ALL scanrates, they are master controls - and set it up as close as possible before redoing any of the point positions themselves. I would aim for getting the centers of the edges right on the sizing, and let the corners take secondary standing. Then I would correct the corners properly, then move on to the rest of the pic.

This is obviously a dangerous set of moves, and I would not do it unless you had LOADS of time on your hands, to make the kinds of corrections that might need to be made. As a family man, Michael, I know you don't. In fact I am amazed at how much time you and Leo have been able to put into your sets, given that you are both family men!



But yes, ideally I woulda not changed any of the point positions before altering the H and W trimpots - and going from there - if I were redoing my sizing in any way, shape or form. Always change the overall, Coarse settings before changing the much more delicate Fine settings.

See you in about a month...




b
post #4355 of 4822
Well all that H & V adjustment are above my pay grade or willingness to tackled them right now. I'll just manage for now as I work on getting Michael's i1 and mess with that. As a family man its tough over here too. I have also put shim washers under my red gun to correct the left side focus issue. I think its called shemp*&^%$ something or other. Anyway never did get it perfect but it did improve greatly from the whole left side being less focused than the center and right.

was able to watch the holy grail flick, 5th Element, and it looked great. Not right on like some of the screenshots I've seen but darn good. Again the Serenity flick was incredible. So still a work in progress. Oh and sorry Lordcloud...I still use low EE. I have turned it off but find I like a little.
post #4356 of 4822
So do I, Sidney.

And it's scheimpflug...



Glad you got it mostly right, anyway.


b
post #4357 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

How on earth do you set your H and W trimpots "to spec"??? There are no markings on them, and like those on the focus block, they are very sensitive to ANY turning of them. Where is spec??? Where they came out of the box? Guess you could call it that, but I doubt that any of the Hitachi techs would, or do. I would not personally call the OOB settings for those trimpots "spec". Far from it. Each of those trimpots is fully variable.

Page 35 of the service manual. I don't make stuff like this up, honest. I can (I think) attach the pdf if you're really curious.
LL
post #4358 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang68 View Post

Well all that H & V adjustment are above my pay grade or willingness to tackled them right now. I'll just manage for now as I work on getting Michael's i1 and mess with that. As a family man its tough over here too. I have also put shim washers under my red gun to correct the left side focus issue. I think its called shemp*&^%$ something or other. Anyway never did get it perfect but it did improve greatly from the whole left side being less focused than the center and right.

From the horse's mouth, as it were:
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/exper...eimpfluge.html
post #4359 of 4822
Yeah, from back when I thought there was supposed to be an "e" on the end of the word!



b
post #4360 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Page 35 of the service manual. I don't make stuff like this up, honest. I can (I think) attach the pdf if you're really curious.

Ya got me, Michael.



So there is actually a spec - when uncorrected, 1.365 meters wide, .710 meters tall, inner dimensions only. (They should mention that that would be the green only, as uncorrected, the red and blue would be significantly stretched sideways in opposing directions, opposite of each other.)

Which of course will deliver their standard factory-designated overscan.

This spec is attained by using the H and W pots, which was my original point. Reducing that overscan is attained the same way, using the same pots.

A secondary "reduced overscan" spec could be obtained by reverse engineering this data from a well-reduced set. There would be one for sm-only overscan redux. There would also be one for shim mod redux. Neither of these would be the same as factory on the measurements, since the actual measurement on the screen of the endpoints would be in play for obtaining the spec. But for the shim mod type, the settings on the trimpots could very well wind up staying exactly at original factory position.

Of course this would only apply for uncorrected state, and if you have corrected your points markedly, could increase your workload immeasurably.


I was not aware that you could very simply temporarily make all geometry/convergence corrections go away for the duration of attaining the spec in question, then bringing them back when done. I've known how to do it on a Mit for some time, now I know how to do it on a Hit.

Just one more piece of ammo for my calibration arsenal. from you guys here on the Hit threads. And you especially, Michael!

Thanks!



b
post #4361 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Ya got me, Michael.



So there is actually a spec - when uncorrected, 1.365 meters wide, .710 meters tall, inner dimensions only. (They should mention that that would be the green only, as uncorrected, the red and blue would be significantly stretched sideways in opposing directions, opposite of each other.)

Which of course will deliver their standard factory-designated overscan.

This spec is attained by using the H and W pots, which was my original point. Reducing that overscan is attained the same way, using the same pots.

A secondary "reduced overscan" spec could be obtained by reverse engineering this data from a well-reduced set. There would be one for sm-only overscan redux. There would also be one for shim mod redux. Neither of these would be the same as factory on the measurements, since the actual measurement on the screen of the endpoints would be in play for obtaining the spec. But for the shim mod type, the settings on the trimpots could very well wind up staying exactly at original factory position.

Of course this would only apply for uncorrected state, and if you have corrected your points markedly, could increase your workload immeasurably.


I was not aware that you could very simply temporarily make all geometry/convergence corrections go away for the duration of attaining the spec in question, then bringing them back when done. I've known how to do it on a Mit for some time, now I know how to do it on a Hit.

Just one more piece of ammo for my calibration arsenal. from you guys here on the Hit threads. And you especially, Michael!

Thanks!



b

I've seen the service manuals for two different RPCRT, One of course being the Hitachi and the other for the Mitsubishi, and I can categorically say that the Hitachi is a more clear read for a non electronics technical trained person.

Also the Hitachi manual clearly denotes step by step what needs to be checked before the tv is ready for use, and it touches on all aspects that we discuss in detail and more... Cut off alignment, DCU phase data setting, horizontal positioning, raster tilt, beam alignment, raster positioning, beam form adjustment, vertical size adjustment, horizontal size adjustment, lens focus, static focus, digital convergence, blue defocusing, white balance, sub brightness adjustment, horizontal position adjustment, scanning area check, top and bottom panel distortion check and side panel distortion check.

Have a headache yet? and that is just related to the actual tv not to mention picture quality... grayscale and color decoding.

post #4362 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Just one more piece of ammo for my calibration arsenal. from you guys here on the Hit threads. And you especially, Michael!

Wow. Imagine what he could do with the WHOLE manual.
post #4363 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

I've seen the service manuals for two different RPCRT, One of course being the Hitachi and the other for the Mitsubishi, and I can categorically say that the Hitachi is a more clear read for a non electronics technical trained person.

Which is one reason we non-techs have been able to do so much with it.
And yes, it's often a headache.
But WELL worthwhile.
post #4364 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang68 View Post

I watched FireFly/Serenity movie on SYFY the other day. Man the pic was amazing. Seen it be before but the focusing of the blue improved the PQ. Getting closer. Still have a focus issue somewhat with blue but I'm not sure if I can get it better.

Also know, and have known, grayscale is off a little. That will soon get fixed with a little help from my friends.( MIchael, Lordcloud)

My convergence is always coming out a little, especially with red. I think its because I have never did a proper jig or similar technique so there's always a strain on the grid lines pulling them out of convergence. Just a guess.

I received the censor last week(thanks again Michael) and haven't been able to use it yet, but I will before the week is out. It'll be on it's way to you soon.
post #4365 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang68 View Post

I watched FireFly/Serenity movie on SYFY the other day. Man the pic was amazing. Seen it be before but the focusing of the blue improved the PQ. Getting closer. Still have a focus issue somewhat with blue but I'm not sure if I can get it better.

Thanks for the reminder. First movie I bought in HD, same order as DVE.

It can ALWAYS get better.
But I'm sure it's already better than it was, and much better than most.
post #4366 of 4822
It can ALWAYS get better.
But I'm sure it's already better than it was, and much better than most.[/quote]

Yea it is about 100% better than when I bought it many Black Fridays ago. I go to the big box stores once in a while and look at the big FP's. They are nice and have some cool technology going for them. Those refresh rates are amazing. Still the PQ on our sets is hard to duplicate. Such depth and color. Mine has good detail and sharpness too. I know for razor sharp lines PQ this set may never match a FP. They just seem to do it better. Then again they cant match that cinematic look either and at least mine can come close on the things they can do well.
post #4367 of 4822
Just to get everyone motivated... to clean and calibrate their sets!!!





post #4368 of 4822
Thread Starter 
Would have liked a shot @ the body paint technician on the 1st of those shots (for the model, anyway!! Dudes are on their own...)
post #4369 of 4822
Got a new kodak 12 mp camera. Actually won it in a raffle. I also have a small tripod. So.....I will try and do some screen shots after Christmas. I said try.......
post #4370 of 4822
I have been using the Kodak Z712 IS, 7MP with 12x zoom. If yours has that nice Schneider lens like mine does, once your shooting technique has been honed and your display is totally optimized, there's no reason your shots should not come out every bit as good as mine, if not better -



b
post #4371 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

I received the censor last week(thanks again Michael) and haven't been able to use it yet, but I will before the week is out. It'll be on it's way to you soon.

Any calibration data to share? I would like to see your results as I'm sure others too.

Let us know how its going.
post #4372 of 4822
I didn't see any recent posts regarding HTPC with our sets.
I've have about everything I need except a video card.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=19671072

Any specific video cards i should avoid or steer to for our sets?
post #4373 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post


Any calibration data to share? I would like to see your results as I'm sure others too.

Let us know how its going.

I still haven't been able to use it,.since my laptop was tied up because of school, and now the charger is making it impossible to move. I'll probably end up sending it along to Mustang without having touched it, since I don't know when I can get to it, and I'm not keen on making him wait any longer. A friend of mine has one that I've used for previous calibrations, so i'm sure I can borrow his in the near future.
post #4374 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

A friend of mine has one that I've used for previous calibrations, so i'm sure I can borrow his in the near future.

It can go back to you from Mustang. That way you can pull a Leo and use two at once!
I'll want it back eventually, but I'm actually okay watching a movie or two in the meantime.
post #4375 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodeje79 View Post

I didn't see any recent posts regarding HTPC with our sets.
I've have about everything I need except a video card.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=19671072

Any specific video cards i should avoid or steer to for our sets?

Your set won't care. Any 1080i signal will be just fine.
You will have to chose how to handle the overscan, but you can try different settings and see what appeals to you most.
Probably the least of your concerns.
Good luck.
post #4376 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post


It can go back to you from Mustang. That way you can pull a Leo and use two at once!
I'll want it back eventually, but I'm actually okay watching a movie or two in the meantime.

Very good idea!

So.....doing more pq analysis. I've adjusted my contrast even further. As I've said, the contrast was too high for me, whites were too bright. So knowing the balancing act that is required when moving the sm contrast control, I lowered it by 2 and actually lowered my user contrast down from 10 to 5. Resulting in a much better picture with no blown highlights or too stark a....contrast.....between light and dark parts of the picture when there shouldn't be. Perceived resolution and sharpness are up as well.
post #4377 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

...That way you can pull a Leo and use two at once!





post #4378 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcloud View Post

Very good idea!

So.....doing more pq analysis. I've adjusted my contrast even further. As I've said, the contrast was too high for me, whites were too bright. So knowing the balancing act that is required when moving the sm contrast control, I lowered it by 2 and actually lowered my user contrast down from 10 to 5. Resulting in a much better picture with no blown highlights or too stark a....contrast.....between light and dark parts of the picture when there shouldn't be. Perceived resolution and sharpness are up as well.

What ever works for you. I can wait longer. I will be excited to get it though to see just how far, or not, I'm off on a few things. I bet I will be shocked. If it can improve my PQ even 10% then hold onto your horses. Man that would be amazing.
post #4379 of 4822
Merry Christmas one and all! May the blessing of friendship make your life richer. I know mine has been enriched with the friends I have here!
post #4380 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang68 View Post

merry christmas one and all! May the blessing of friendship make your life richer. I know mine has been enriched with the friends i have here!

+1
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