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Hitachi 51/57/65F59A CRT RPTV Tweaks Thread - Page 149

post #4441 of 4604
2/2/11 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post
Nice surprise Lee seeing you on this side of the forums!

I'm not talking about, grayscale that is with in norm regarding deltas, although due to blue not tracking correctly 100 IRE is suffering.

Like I mentioned earlier, I don't think that this is a must do adjustment, but the tv will have some down time and that is my only time other than late nights to play with it, plus it wouldn't be fun if I just watch movies and TV!?!
Blue is tracking, it is just running out of steam. That's why you sometimes have to bring the other two down to bring blue up.

Just saying that messing with the trim pots is the last thing you should do. Also, you didn't answer my question on your meter status.

Time for Mr. Bob to make a visit to your TV!

BTW, I still use a RPTV, it just happens to use LEDs and a light engine instead of CRTs!
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post #4442 of 4604
2/2/11 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Bailey View Post
Blue is tracking, it is just running out of steam. That's why you sometimes have to bring the other two down to bring blue up.

Just saying that messing with the trim pots is the last thing you should do. Also, you didn't answer my question on your meter status.

Time for Mr. Bob to make a visit to your TV!

BTW, I still use a RPTV, it just happens to use LEDs and a light engine instead of CRTs!
I have two meters; A Spyder2 and an Eye-1. Believe it or not I prefer the Spyder, and although they are two or so years old, the Spyder conserves its fidelity, while I can't say the same for the Eye-1, that one for sure need a recalibration itself.

Bob paid my set a visit a year ago and I can say that it was a great experience, I hope it was a good experience for him too. You can check the results through my signature link regarding the overscan reduction (shimming) if you are curious about it.

If I can bring the colors to more or less the same level before calibration I don't see the drawback. I understand that the grayscale and temperature will be completely lost, but that is OK... I can bring them back where they need to be... that is the whole idea, and I'm aware that it won't be a quick job... but that's OK too, I'll spend the time... all this stuff is my kind of fun.



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post #4443 of 4604
2/2/11 at 9:05am
Leo,

You are one of the world's greatest hosts! Darn right I had a great time visiting with you and your family last year! Avatar in IMAX 3D was one of the high points!



The most difference I see is in the high IRE areas, whereas the Screen trimpots primarily affect the low IRE areas. Getting the plots to match up together on the low end by retrimming the screen pots will get you more parity among them on the lower IREs, but will do virtually nothing on the high end of the IREs, where your chief differences are showing up.

b
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post #4444 of 4604
2/10/11 at 4:54pm
I have begun to notice a very disturbing issue with my set. The color seems to come and go. It looks like a red saturation that blooms and then subsides. Im not even sure if that is accurate. All I know is its noticable. As the set heats up it seems to do it less. An example was Ghosthunters last night. In the black and white Night Vision shots I could see red bloom and then back off. I even thought it happened with blue too. Its real quick but its there.

UPDATE: After watching more it appears to be an effect more closely resembling temperature setting changes. Im no expert but I would think this has something to do with electrical flow within the circuitry. Any help?
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post #4445 of 4604
2/16/11 at 8:35am
Sounds like a cold solder joint somewhere. Where? No idea. Techs check this sort of thing with freeze spray and tapping on boards with something NON conductive while the set is running, which I do NOT recommend for owners to do. Have a qualified service tech do things like that.

b
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post #4446 of 4604
2/17/11 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Sounds like a cold solder joint somewhere. Where? No idea. Techs check this sort of thing with freeze spray and tapping on boards with something NON conductive while the set is running, which I do NOT recommend for owners to do. Have a qualified service tech do things like that.

b

Yea I imagined it would be something over my head. I will continue to monitor. Hopefully a solution can be had at a price that makes sense. This would surely be the reason my wife will use to get a thinner set into our lives.
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post #4447 of 4604
2/20/11 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang68 View Post

Yea I imagined it would be something over my head. I will continue to monitor. Hopefully a solution can be had at a price that makes sense. This would surely be the reason my wife will use to get a thinner set into our lives.

Oh, come on, bang around in there. What could possibly happen?

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post #4448 of 4604
2/20/11 at 7:38am
Just make sure you're grounded, and if you can roll the tv outside just in case you spark and catch fire you don't burn the house down... and advice for your wife... for her to make sure that your life insurance is paid up and up to date.
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post #4449 of 4604
2/20/11 at 8:58am
Um, guys let's not make sure you're grounded! Let's make sure your instruments for poking are grounded! YOU being grounded would NOT be good!



b
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post #4450 of 4604
2/20/11 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Um, guys let's not make sure you're grounded! Let's make sure your instruments for poking are grounded! YOU being grounded would NOT be good!



b

Im going to take a look but in reality it most likely wont be obvious enough for me to find. I guess I will have to price some techs. I hate to do that because I have my doubts from my past experience of finding one. It really wont matter anyway because I need to find a logical price point where fixing it as opposed to replacing it makes sense. Its going to break my heart if there isnt an easy fix.
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post #4451 of 4604
3/4/11 at 12:12pm
I'm so glad I decided to try the DCAM convergence. It's so much easier to do.


My 51F59A got some new companions. MartinLogan Source and Encore TF. Next up is some subs... (then cable management LOL)

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post #4452 of 4604
3/4/11 at 3:44pm
That's some serious audio artillery there!

b
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post #4453 of 4604
3/5/11 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

I'm so glad I decided to try the DCAM convergence. It's so much easier to do.


My 51F59A got some new companions. MartinLogan Source and Encore TF. Next up is some subs... (then cable management LOL)

nice!
where do i get a center channel holder like that???
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post #4454 of 4604
3/5/11 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prodeje79 View Post

nice!
where do i get a center channel holder like that???

http://www.amazon.com/OmniMount-CCH1...9354318&sr=8-1

Same one I got but you can't use the stock mount holes. The whole thing is mesh and I use the far back holes to mount the legs.
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post #4455 of 4604
3/7/11 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by |Tch0rT| View Post

I'm so glad I decided to try the DCAM convergence. It's so much easier to do.


My 51F59A got some new companions. MartinLogan Source and Encore TF. Next up is some subs... (then cable management LOL)

Nice sound for a nice video...
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post #4456 of 4604
3/16/11 at 8:50am
So has ANYONE used my meter? Does it miss me?
Michael
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post #4457 of 4604
3/16/11 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

So has ANYONE used my meter? Does it miss me?
Michael

Comm'n guys!!!

Get to work with the meter and post your data. Here is the data from the schemufladge mod. Well worth it too.

Just by realigning the red and blue the sets gets a more define, concentrated point of focus, to call it something. Here is the proof; this measurement is with the guns realigned and everything refocused, electro and mechanical, and of course re covergenced, but not calibrated for color or grayscale.

Note that the FTL reading is at 45 or so which is an increase of 10 FTL, that is a lot!



The graph and data for color before adjustments.



Once everything is in place...Grayscale





The color measurements and graph CIE graph.





The Gamma graph... it is at 2.4 but it looks very good and as you see it is very flat.



Finally, it is worth mentioning to glance at the contrast ratio. It has been mentioned before that is so because the SpyderII does not measure well at the lower end... I don't know men, but I get consistent readings... so if wrong at least is consistently wrong... but I doubt it... CRT king of dynamic range.
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post #4458 of 4604
3/16/11 at 9:56am


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post #4459 of 4604
3/16/11 at 2:53pm
Nice job, Leo. Thinking of going on tour?
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post #4460 of 4604
3/17/11 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Nice job, Leo. Thinking of going on tour?

hahaha
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post #4461 of 4604
3/28/11 at 9:21am
Lastbutnotleast/Michael:
Thanks for encouraging me to take another stab at grayscale on the other RPCRT thread. I went after it this weekend and I got much closer with my Hit 65f59. I started where you suggested and found that I was way off on my RGB cut settings. I adjusted the green and blue screen trimpots as gently as one would grapple a skeeter's tweeter. I know. An ugly thought. Anyway, I got the grayscale dramatically closer. It's still not 100% there. I need to do a little refocusing touch up this week and tweak the green screen pot just a wee bit more. I still get a very slight green discoloration on a few of the DVE essential images like the gray pixelation ones (that should all be gray) But the grayscale, brightness and contrast images look almost steel gray now. So I'm much closer. I'm Just a little timid about tweaking that green screen pot any more. Afraid I'll screw all the hard work up. And I'm 60% sure that's where the problem really is. Because those screen pots were what the ham fisted service tech mangled when he changed the Tint/image shift board.

I will dive back in this week and get it as good as I can. Then I'll share the results.

Again, thanks for the support and encouragement. All the best.

John
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post #4462 of 4604
3/28/11 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I will dive back in this week and get it as good as I can. Then I'll share the results.

Glad to hear of your success. Looking forward to seeing your results.

This was the last set of readings I took:

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post #4463 of 4604
3/29/11 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Glad to hear of your success. Looking forward to seeing your results.

This was the last set of readings I took:

]

I can see it now....

meter withdrawals!!!

Nice results Michael.
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post #4464 of 4604
3/29/11 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

Comm'n guys!!!

Get to work with the meter and post your data. Here is the data from the schemufladge mod. Well worth it too.

Just by realigning the red and blue the sets gets a more define, concentrated point of focus, to call it something. Here is the proof; this measurement is with the guns realigned and everything refocused, electro and mechanical, and of course re covergenced, but not calibrated for color or grayscale.

Note that the FTL reading is at 45 or so which is an increase of 10 FTL, that is a lot!

That high a light level probably explains why the blue nosedives just a little bit in the highest light levels. If you crank the overall FL light level down just a bit, that might flatten it out at the high IRE's.

That would apply to your graph too, Michael.

Quote:


Finally, it is worth mentioning to glance at the contrast ratio. It has been mentioned before that is so because the SpyderII does not measure well at the lower end... I don't know men, but I get consistent readings... so if wrong at least is consistently wrong... but I doubt it... CRT king of dynamic range.

126,132:1!

No sh**, Sherlock! This is very similar to the results of Cliff's G90 triple-stack producing a ratio of 525,000:1, using 3 projectors on one screen. The fixed pixel CRT naysayers can only dream!



b
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post #4465 of 4604
3/29/11 at 8:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Lastbutnotleast/Michael:
Thanks for encouraging me to take another stab at grayscale on the other RPCRT thread. I went after it this weekend and I got much closer with my Hit 65f59. I started where you suggested and found that I was way off on my RGB cut settings. I adjusted the green and blue screen trimpots as gently as one would grapple a skeeter's tweeter. I know. An ugly thought. Anyway, I got the grayscale dramatically closer. It's still not 100% there. I need to do a little refocusing touch up this week and tweak the green screen pot just a wee bit more. I still get a very slight green discoloration on a few of the DVE essential images like the gray pixelation ones (that should all be gray) But the grayscale, brightness and contrast images look almost steel gray now. So I'm much closer. I'm Just a little timid about tweaking that green screen pot any more. Afraid I'll screw all the hard work up. And I'm 60% sure that's where the problem really is. Because those screen pots were what the ham fisted service tech mangled when he changed the Tint/image shift board.

I will dive back in this week and get it as good as I can. Then I'll share the results.

Again, thanks for the support and encouragement. All the best.

John

Ideally, the trimpots should be tweaked only after the Cutoffs have been centerpointed in the service menu.

If you go in and find that the green cutoff register value is rather high in its settings right now, then don't even touch your green trimpot again until you have lowered your green cutoff value appropriately. This may just do it, and you may not have to touch the green Screen trimpot again at all.

If your cutoff values are not too awfully far from their centerpoints and your grays are nice and neutral - the color of clouds on an overcast day - then chances are your trimpots are fine and you should stick to changing only your cutoff values.

Relative to your Drive values, of course, since they are all interactive with each other and constantly affect each other, with each change of any of them...

Remember, the grayscale is like a hanging mobile - tug on one part of it and all the parts of it instantly get into the act!




b
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post #4466 of 4604
3/30/11 at 11:32am
Thanks Bob:
I will try what you suggest with my Eye 1. Like I said. Can't wait to get you out to beantown to do it right. It will happen.

Addition:
When I null everything back to SM factory preset levels they are;
White Level High-RD=3F, GD=3F, RGB cutoff=7F, SUB Bright=7F

I have not fooled with the white level adjustments for MEdium or Standard. The Service Manual recommended
adjusting from only the "High" setting. Should I also adjust the others? My instinct is to only fool with one setting (High). And let you do the rest when you do the full calibration/cleaning.

Should the user menu adjustment values in the regaular menu be reset before hand also? Or should they be set at a lower value before adjusting the screen pots. They UM Defaults are;
Contrast=100, Brightness=50, Color=50, Sharpness=50, Tint=50 (midpoint), Temperature=High, Black Enhancement=Medium, Edge Enhancement=High.

When I have adjusted in the past I have started from the UM defaults. But I never really like the results. And have to do drastic surgery in the SM settings. What do you suggest? I want to keep this real simple until I can get you out here to get'er done professionally.

Thanks,
John
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post #4467 of 4604
3/30/11 at 1:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

I have not fooled with the white level adjustments for MEdium or Standard. The Service Manual recommended
adjusting from only the "High" setting. Should I also adjust the others? My instinct is to only fool with one setting (High). And let you do the rest when you do the full calibration/cleaning.

"HIGH" is the "master," it affects the other two. "MED" and "STD" are independent of each other, but affected by "HIGH." I presume you watch on "STD," in which case you should probably return "HIGH" registers to default and adjust "STD."
And if you get it close, he'll have more time for other stuff!
Michael
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post #4468 of 4604
3/30/11 at 1:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Remember, the grayscale is like a hanging mobile - tug on one part of it and all the parts of it instantly get into the act!

There's an outtake for the book if I've ever seen one.
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post #4469 of 4604
3/30/11 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

"HIGH" is the "master," it affects the other two. "MED" and "STD" are independent of each other, but affected by "HIGH." I presume you watch on "STD," in which case you should probably return "HIGH" registers to default and adjust "STD."
And if you get it close, he'll have more time for other stuff!
Michael

Thanks Michael. This is actually fun now. I'm not as intimidated by the process as I was at first. You guys have been an enormous help, with all of the terrific posts. I have all of the key ones in a self made reference guide, along with my "Calibration for Dummies" and Hitachi SM.

I actually had been watching on High. But I'll switch over to Standard after making the adjustments to see if I like it better. Standard always seemed off too much in the green area to me. But that probably had everything to do with the green screen pot setting being off with the default registers. I hope to have this area close before Bob comes out, so his time can be better spent tweaking and dialing in perfection. Unless that is part of his normal process. Which would mean I'm just chasing my own tail.
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post #4470 of 4604
3/30/11 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrelbelly View Post

Which would mean I'm just chasing my own tail.

Nope, you're just having fun. And he can "fix" it later!
My understanding is that the color temperatures are set at the factory, with "HIGH" being K10,000. You want "STD" at K6500. Since the program I was using didn't go to K10,000 (and I'm not sure how to change it, anyway), I left it there.
There was a time when I made the changes to both "STD" and "MED." Unfortunately, I don't remember if there was any difference, but my educated guess is that there wasn't.
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