or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Hitachi 51/57/65F59A CRT RPTV Tweaks Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Hitachi 51/57/65F59A CRT RPTV Tweaks Thread - Page 155

post #4621 of 4822
While I agree with Mustang about pretty much everything he said, I cannot emphasize enough the importance of the cleaning of the inner/deeper optics, the ones you have to remove the lens barrels for. Yes it only needs to be done every few years whereas the tops of the lenses and mirror - the regular optics - need to be done every year. But if it's time for the deeper to get done, it cannot be left out of the cleaning process. Nothing short of a completely crystal clear light path is acceptable for telescopes, microscopes, binoculars and big screen projection TVs, be they CRT, DLP, LCOS or SXRD. Even front projectors usually need this servicing done every few years, no matter what tech you're looking at. I once needed to clean the optical path on a Runco CRT projector used at Harbin Hot Springs up in Clear Lake. The dust had caked on it so much that the bottom portion of the lenses were totally embedded with dust that looked like it had been scooped onto it, an inch up from the bottom. No light could even get through it in those areas.

A crystal clear light path is absolutely essential on any projection format. And even if you don't have a very dusty environment like Harbin does, the 30,000 volts used by CRT and the much lower but still high voltage used by lamps in bulb-driven projection systems guarantees the need for deeper optics cleaning on a regular basis. Some of the Runco DLPs use a directed forced-air/filtered system to make sure the air pressure is always going outward and not drawing in particulates, like a fan alone will do. But that was on a machine where just the lens alone cost $18,000! I know. That's what I was told when I asked, because they had just removed it and handed it to me! It was 1.5' long and about 10" thick, and freakin' HEAVY!

eek.gif

b
Edited by Mr Bob - 7/17/13 at 10:49am
post #4622 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

I think there are sufficient reasons to look into new displays. I'm not talking about led/lcd flat panels. I'm talking about high end lcos and dlp projection.
Crt may be the best Hd tech ever made, but a 1080i rear projection set in my opinion isn't the best of what crt has to offer, definitely not without a lot of work anyways.

There are many pros and cons of each display tech, one of the greatest pros of crt's currently is the minimal cost for a good picture. Eventually, at least for me, it'll be time to move on to a more energy efficient, much larger image.

The set is 10 years old now and it's definitely time to clean all of the lenses. So 4 screws around each lens casing yes?

Yea thats it. Those four screws. Remembering of course that the other screws down there are not to be touched. Mine were colored purple so I knew that those were not the ones I needed to be messing with. I believe those are to the coolant? Its been a long time and I can't remember. I did that inner lense about a year and a half ago so for now mine is fine. Use a magnetized screw driver. I remember that it was very hard not to drop one and if you do down they go into works. I dont think I found a way to cover the holes where the screws could go but if you can then do it. Good Luck. Oh yea I did look into lcos and was impressed.
post #4623 of 4822
Only one inner lens per tube? That doesn't sound to bad at all.
Why do some of these sets use so many lenses?
post #4624 of 4822
To get away from prismatic aberration, which would happen out at the edges with just 1 lens. All fine lenses are multiple lenses, no matter what the application - telescopes, microscopes, binoculars... The best ones are internally coated to suppress internal reflections, but we have no such luck on our medium priced sets.

There are typically 28 optical surfaces in a CRT RPTV - one mirror, 3 lens barrels with 4 lenses each inside, plus the CRT coolant covers. To keep your set looking brand new at all times, all of them need to stay crystal clear, which is impossible without external intervention when HV is involved.

10 of these surfaces typically get dirty over the years due to the 30KV inherent in CRT use, causing all airborne particulates, no matter how small, to be statically attracted to those optical surfaces. They are literally sucked out of the air and onto those surfaces, every minute the set is powered up.

What usually needs to be cleaned on Hitachis is the mirror, the tops and bottoms of all 3 lens barrels, and the 3 coolant covers of the guns themselves. The internal lens surfaces of the barrels will have individual particulates on them, but what needs to be remedied is the blanketing of the surface, not individual particles. Everything in there is out of focus at that part of the light path, so individual particulates don't impede the performance of the lenses.

To see which surfaces are really dirty, shine a powerful flashlight onto the surface in question from a very steep angle, in the dark.

If you have strong high light content video on and you elect to draw a happy face in those lens tops to really get it, be sure and lick your finger first! Those are plastic surfaces and being highly vulnerable and easily scratched by dust (permanent damage), they need to be handled very carefully.

The bottoms of the lenses, which face the coolant covers, often don't need it, tho they should be thoroughly inspected anyway with that flashlight. Probably won't find dust, but only smoke, on those, but that smoke can be pretty thick, and definitely an impediment to crystal clear viewing. When they do need it and there is a lens striping bar in there, there's often a black mark in the position of that bar, where the smoke could not get to the bottom of the lens to adhere (but adhered to the stripe instead). Once the lens has been removed, it's easy to see that black exception mark in the smokiness covering the bottom lens of the barrel, if the lens is very smoky.

The deeper optics can be tested by removing the lens - usually the green is the most telling, tho they are all 3 identically dirty - and lick your thumb and put a fresh wet mark in the top 1/2" area of the cover farthest away from you, then play really bright video material, so it will be backlit. If that thumbprint is black while the rest of the cover is gray, you have your answer. If there's really no difference, you can probably leave the coolant covers alone.

b
Edited by Mr Bob - 7/21/13 at 11:49am
post #4625 of 4822
I'll probably just clean everything. Hopefully i'll be pleasantly surprised by the static and ansi contrast (something i've found lacking on this tv, but not on my old crt direct view monitor). Crt definetly has something special about the picture, my only complaints are static contrast and phosphor lag (my crt monitor didn't have phosphor lag either).
post #4626 of 4822

Somehow this thread fell off my radar. eek.gif Sorry for the absence.

Mustang68: service manual is available here (click on "Get Manual"):

http://elektrotanya.com/hitachi_dp65g_chassis_51f59_57f59_65f59a_tv_sm.pdf/download.html

jones07: I'm not really sure I want to open up this can of worms, but I'm nearby and might actually be interested in your 65. Might just trade you my "smaller" 57, if you promise to take really good care of it.

barrelbelly: glad to be able to help, and I'm glad you're so happy with the Darblet. Highly recommended for anyone here, too, BTW (except Bob, who seems to be allergic to HDMI wink.gif).

Mik James: if there's ANYTHING out there with better contrast than your set, it needs to be cleaned and adjusted properly. You absolutely can't beat the contrast of this tech.

 

I feel better now. smile.gif

Michael

post #4627 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

I'll probably just clean everything. Hopefully i'll be pleasantly surprised by the static and ansi contrast (something i've found lacking on this tv, but not on my old crt direct view monitor). Crt definetly has something special about the picture, my only complaints are static contrast and phosphor lag (my crt monitor didn't have phosphor lag either).

Cleaning the inner lenses involves taking those lens barrels apart. I do not advise this, it's completely unnecessary and such unnecessary ops often come back and bite you on the butt. I recommend leaving the other 18 surfaces alone. Just do the 10 I have mentioned and you'll be fine. Your ANSI contrast will go back to brand new status.

b
post #4628 of 4822
So I'm only cleaning the surface of the top lens and the surface of the bottom lens in each stack.
Then the surface of the lens under which the coolant is contained.
Then the Mirror.
Sounds a lot easier than disassembling the stacks smile.gif

As far as I know the previous owner wasn't a smoker, so there shouldn't be any smoke residue in the stacks.
post #4629 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Somehow this thread fell off my radar. eek.gif  Sorry for the absence.
Mustang68: service manual is available here (click on "Get Manual"):
http://elektrotanya.com/hitachi_dp65g_chassis_51f59_57f59_65f59a_tv_sm.pdf/download.html
jones07: I'm not really sure I want to open up this can of worms, but I'm nearby and might actually be interested in your 65. Might just trade you my "smaller" 57, if you promise to take really good care of it.
barrelbelly: glad to be able to help, and I'm glad you're so happy with the Darblet. Highly recommended for anyone here, too, BTW (except Bob, who seems to be allergic to HDMI wink.gif ).
Mik James: if there's ANYTHING out there with better contrast than your set, it needs to be cleaned and adjusted properly. You absolutely can't beat the contrast of this tech.

I feel better now. smile.gif
Michael

Michael:

I did your recommended color adjustment tweaks last Friday. And redid my convergence in DCAM mode because the it kept drifting out of alignment. I was not saving my settings properly. This time it worked and maintained perfectly. Unbelievable results! I no longer even bother with Edge Enhancement. And I have turned Sharpness all the way down to 10. I don't really need it with the Darbee. I set the Darblet at HD 50 or Full Pop 40. And it just rocks! This combo is simply spellbinding (Darblet with cleaned & calibrated RPHDCRT. I have never seen anything like this. I spent Saturday just enjoying the British Open on FIOS and a few HD-DVDs on my Tosh A35 and Blu Rays on the old Panny BD35. My wife kept commenting how beautiful the picture was. Trust me...that has never happened before. Maybe she was just ecstatic that I didn't buy a big new TV...and was using a bit of reverse Psychology on me. But I think not. Both of us are really amazed and happy with the Hitachi/Darblet combo now. It beats everything I have seen on PQ. And by a pretty wide margin IMHO.
post #4630 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

So I'm only cleaning the surface of the top lens and the surface of the bottom lens in each stack.
Then the surface of the lens under which the coolant is contained.
Then the Mirror.
Sounds a lot easier than disassembling the stacks smile.gif

As far as I know the previous owner wasn't a smoker, so there shouldn't be any smoke residue in the stacks.

Thats what I did. I did the smudge test on the coolant lens (as good as a name as any) and had no issues. So it was top, bottom and mirror. THe mirror is a pain. Using non ammonia glass cleaner it still takes several runs to get that film and streaking off. I used good quality paper towels because frankly they worked the best out of all the fancier rag/towels I used. You really have to look at the mirror at an angle because if not it will look clean and not be. Man I gotta stop posting on this though because now I have an urge to go after the bottom lenses again and I dont even need too. Does this mean I have a problem. Any 12 step programs out there. tongue.gif

Just kidding. So damn happy to have my set again.biggrin.gif
post #4631 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

So I'm only cleaning the surface of the top lens and the surface of the bottom lens in each stack.
Then the surface of the lens under which the coolant is contained.
Then the Mirror.
Sounds a lot easier than disassembling the stacks smile.gif

As far as I know the previous owner wasn't a smoker, so there shouldn't be any smoke residue in the stacks.

Doesn't matter whether the owner smoked or not, smoke - or whatever it is that looks like smoke - gathers on the undersides of the barrels, plus gets everywhere else as well. Luckily it cannot penetrate the gaps to get into the inner compartments of the lens barrels.

Otherwise yes those are the 10 surfaces that need it.

b
post #4632 of 4822
I did the mirror and top lenses back when I first got the set. I eventually got it looking relatively pristine, even with the set turned on and the light hitting the glass.
I've got some eye glass cleaner that should do the trick, and I think I used cotton/Egyptian cotton last time. I'm not sure if cotton will leave scratches or not though.
post #4633 of 4822
I am available if you want to be sure to do all the right things. I recommend you not be a cowboy in there. These are high precision pieces of equipment, and should be maintained at professional grade level at all times.

b
post #4634 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang68 View Post

Thats what I did. I did the smudge test on the coolant lens (as good as a name as any) and had no issues. So it was top, bottom and mirror. THe mirror is a pain. Using non ammonia glass cleaner it still takes several runs to get that film and streaking off. I used good quality paper towels because frankly they worked the best out of all the fancier rag/towels I used. You really have to look at the mirror at an angle because if not it will look clean and not be. Man I gotta stop posting on this though because now I have an urge to go after the bottom lenses again and I dont even need too. Does this mean I have a problem. Any 12 step programs out there. tongue.gif

Just kidding. So damn happy to have my set again.biggrin.gif

When you tested out your bottom lenses, did you have strong, bright video content on, to backlight it adequately? That's the only way you'll see the blackness of your thumbprint against the gray of the surrounding area, and thus know it's dirty on that surface.

b
post #4635 of 4822
I believe my convergence chips just died frown.gif
Convergence suddenly drifted and a red and blue mess filled the screen.

Hopefully someone around my area will want it.
post #4636 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

I am available if you want to be sure to do all the right things. I recommend you not be a cowboy in there. These are high precision pieces of equipment, and should be maintained at professional grade level at all times.

b

Yeah, well,...

redface.gif

post #4637 of 4822
Can the mirror and back panel be removed from the tv without damaging it? I would like to try to pass it on to someone who will repair it rather than sending it to the trash, but I can't move it all in one piece. I need to get the weight down so i can move it over 2 flights of stairs.
post #4638 of 4822

The top comes off the 57 and 65. Sorry, don't remember which model you have. See service manual, link above.

You can just pull the board and send it to Bob (which is what I did).

Just remind him to send it back. biggrin.gif

(and you thought I'd let you forget that, eh?).

Michael

post #4639 of 4822
I have the 51uwx20b, i couldn't find a thread for them and i figured cleaning and lens hood would be similar so I posted in this thread instead.
I think the side boards on mine are one piece, but the slanted panel that has the mirror attached has screws on either side of the panel and it's a separate piece.
I remember making a rookie mistake when I first got the tv by trying to remove the back panel with the mirror attached. I never managed to remove that panel though. The main thing is to get the weight down so i can move it and get to a spot where someone would be willing to take it. I'm open to any and all suggestions on how to go about doing that.

I like Crt, but i'm not shipping a board across the border and back. Not when I can pick up a nice 34"-40" Sony Direct view or a front projector down the line.
Edited by Mik James - 7/23/13 at 12:21pm
post #4640 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

The top comes off the 57 and 65. Sorry, don't remember which model you have. See service manual, link above.
You can just pull the board and send it to Bob (which is what I did).
Just remind him to send it back. biggrin.gif
(and you thought I'd let you forget that, eh?).
Michael

No problem, I finish whatever work has been sent to me before I cash any checks!

Michael knows I send stuff back, he was also kind enough to lend me his only-begotten remote for his own personal home unit a couple of years ago, when I had a customer who didn't have any remote for her Hit and it needed serious convergence correction. He was stinging from someone not having returned his grayscale pod at the time, as I recall... I will always be grateful for his trust and generosity. And screenshots! His latest shots show that you should never give up! They are spectacular.

Hey, Michael! wink.gif

I would not be able to do any corrections once the board was fixed because I don't have your model of Hit here, but the repair is fairly straight forward for a tech or any serious DIYer, and you can do your own testing once it gets back to you. I seriously recommend you do not off your set. Owners fix this convergence issue all the time on their own sets, for a fraction of what it costs to buy new. So do I, no matter where you live in the country.

b
post #4641 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

 So do I, no matter where you live in the country.
 

Actually, he's not in the country.

eek.gif

biggrin.gif

post #4642 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

Can the mirror and back panel be removed from the tv without damaging it? I would like to try to pass it on to someone who will repair it rather than sending it to the trash, but I can't move it all in one piece. I need to get the weight down so i can move it over 2 flights of stairs.

Some brands make the inner compartment - the "light box" - available for removal to go down to the shop for fixing, which lightens up the load immensely as it contains the CRTs, which are the heaviest part. Mit especially. DK about Hit, but it's worth a try -

b
post #4643 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Actually, he's not in the country.
eek.gif
biggrin.gif

I would have said "the continent", but Canada does not want my work conflicting with that of their own people, so I was denied access to Canada when I was flown to Buffalo to be picked up and driven across the border to work on a very expensive Sony G90 projector, which almost nobody up there works on. Didn't matter, they would not let me in...

I know he does not want to send a board across the border, but I have serviced PS boards for Pioneer Elites from as far away as Puerto Rico. I am hoping he will change his mind...!

wink.gif

b
Edited by Mr Bob - 7/23/13 at 12:19pm
post #4644 of 4822
I'm not going anywhere near crt's and high voltage transformers at this time, and i'm not a "serious diyer".

I'll just remove the mirror and back panel. Hopefully there is someone around here who will repair it or can use the parts.
post #4645 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mik James View Post

I'm not going anywhere near crt's and high voltage transformers at this time, and i'm not a "serious diyer".

I'll just remove the mirror and back panel. Hopefully there is someone around here who will repair it or can use the parts.

Sorry to hear about the convergence. Those CRT guns in there might be worth saving. It seems Im always hearing about people looking for ones without burn in.

Yea Bob I did do the high light content when I did the Smudge Test. Man if I remember right I was on the phone with you on that one.
post #4646 of 4822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang68 View Post

Sorry to hear about the convergence. Those CRT guns in there might be worth saving. It seems Im always hearing about people looking for ones without burn in.

Well, it'll be open salvage if no one wants it in one piece. I'm not abandoning crt, just downsizing to a direct view for now.
post #4647 of 4822
I have a 34" Sony HDready direct view here that needs some work and then a new home. These things are super heavy, but the pictures they make are spectacular!

b
post #4648 of 4822
The main thing i'm worried about is convergence. I'm stuck between a Crt Direct view or a Dlp with a strong Ndf filter. I definetly want a crt with convergence adjustments in the user or service menu.

I'm also trying to find out what kind of cleaning is involved in Dlp. The light path looks to be relatively sealed off but I don't know if the issues with the foggy lenses on the Mitsubishi sets is limited to that brand.
post #4649 of 4822
Very few direct views have any convergence to control, tho their CRTs need to be fine tuned mechanically. The Sonys do, in a special service menu. The others, pretty much not. The RCAs have a computer generated strip that goes around the neck of the tube, and I am not sure what the 38" Panasonic HD DV does, but it is highly impressive in my book, even better than the Sony's.

b
post #4650 of 4822
Does it drift like it does on a rear pro? Is there normally noticeable misalignment toward the sides?
I like how you can perfectly dial it in on a rear pro but if it didn't drift in the first place I wouldn't have to worry about it.
I know on my 19" direct view monitor there we're basic menu controls for it, but it never really drifted to begin with.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Rear Projection Units
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Rear Projection Units › Hitachi 51/57/65F59A CRT RPTV Tweaks Thread