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Is there any way to save high def content from Motorola DCT6412?

post #1 of 30
1/21/07 at 7:55am
Thread Starter 
Due to the box not working with HDMI I'm going to return it at the end of the month. I've recorded some tennis matches in high def that I'd like to take with me. I read on their website you can save it to a tape, but I don't have a tape player and I'd rather save it on DVD or a hard drive. Are there any 3rd party programs that might work?
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post #2 of 30
1/21/07 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiebrock View Post

Due to the box not working with HDMI I'm going to return it at the end of the month. I've recorded some tennis matches in high def that I'd like to take with me. I read on their website you can save it to a tape, but I don't have a tape player and I'd rather save it on DVD or a hard drive. Are there any 3rd party programs that might work?

You could output from your STB to a DVD recorder. Just make sure you set your STB to output 480i only. You will be able to archive the content you have stored on you STB in this manner. Understand that you will capture the content in 480i but from a high def source it still looks OK.

Options specific to your STB can be found here..http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=464986
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post #3 of 30
1/21/07 at 1:51pm
i think his subject said "high def"
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post #4 of 30
1/21/07 at 1:54pm
If your firewire port is active on the back of your box, you can output it to a PC with some degree of difficulty. I have done it, although it's not fun. There is a thread on AVS about it...let me see if I can find it (please hold)...

Here it is...good luck:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695

Mark
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post #5 of 30
1/21/07 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post

i think his subject said "high def"

It was my way of "reading between the lines", if you will
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post #6 of 30
1/21/07 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky_Mark896 View Post

If your firewire port is active on the back of your box, you can output it to a PC with some degree of difficulty. I have done it, although it's not fun. There is a thread on AVS about it...let me see if I can find it (please hold)...

Here it is...good luck:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695

Mark

Thanks, I'll give that a try.
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post #7 of 30
1/21/07 at 5:31pm
JUst get a DVHS machine...easy as pie. When your viewing 1080i on your favorite screen...who cares if it originates on tape.
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post #8 of 30
1/21/07 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star56 View Post

JUst get a DVHS machine...easy as pie. When your viewing 1080i on your favorite screen...who cares if it originates on tape.

I would love one but they are kinda pricey...yes?
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post #9 of 30
1/21/07 at 8:10pm
One thing to note, re: archiving via Firewire to an XP box...if the channel it was recorded on was "protected" (ie set to "copy once"), then you will not be able to get the high-def content out, and 480i to DVD or DVHS are the only options. Depending on the cable-co and the channel, whether or not it's protected content is a crap-shoot.

Rgds,

jwehman
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post #10 of 30
1/21/07 at 9:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSDO View Post

I would love one but they are kinda pricey...yes?

Depending on what you want...not really. Older JVC machines can be had for around $150-200 on Ebay. The newest JVC unit (5C) can be had for around $400-500 online. Mits units can be had for $140 (but they do not have Mpeg2 decoders).

Archiving HD is a bit of a challenge...but worth it. You end up with tons of great stuff that will never see the light of day on an optical format.
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post #11 of 30
1/22/07 at 9:05am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Star56 View Post

JUst get a DVHS machine...easy as pie. When your viewing 1080i on your favorite screen...who cares if it originates on tape.

I'm sorry for being so ignorant, but what is a DVHS machine? Is that a type of tape that will let you save 1080i video?

I don't understand why its so difficult to archive HD content. Wouldn't HD and blu-ray want people to do this so they'd buy more discs and burners?

It kind of ruins the whole HD experience when you can't record and save your favorite shows and sports in HD. Why do they downconvert content to 480i? If you spend a small fortune on an HD TV and home theater why is it so difficult to save and watch HD tv for it?

I'm starting to think it might be easier to get a really good 1080p upconvert (or is it upscale?) machine than it is to have true HD content. I know it won't look as good, but it seems to be a heck of a lot easier.

All I want to do is save some really good tennis matches in high def.
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post #12 of 30
1/22/07 at 9:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiebrock View Post

I'm sorry for being so ignorant, but what is a DVHS machine? Is that a type of tape that will let you save 1080i video?

D-VHS = Digital VHS.

Yes, it is essentially a high-definition VCR.

Quote:


I don't understand why its so difficult to archive HD content. Wouldn't HD and blu-ray want people to do this so they'd buy more discs and burners?

Archiving is different from time shifting, and not covered under the ruling on fair use. Ignoring the legalities of archiving, content providers do not want their programs distributed over the Internet.

Quote:


It kind of ruins the whole HD experience when you can't record and save your favorite shows and sports in HD. Why do they downconvert content to 480i? If you spend a small fortune on an HD TV and home theater why is it so difficult to save and watch HD tv for it?

Why do you even need to archive? What is wrong with your DVR?

If you need a DVR with more capacity, you can buy the Tivo Series3 with a 1 Terabyte hard drive -- for 120-150 hours of high-definition storage. There's no limit to how long you can store programs on your DVR.
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post #13 of 30
1/22/07 at 4:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

D-VHS = Digital VHS.

Yes, it is essentially a high-definition VCR.

Archiving is different from time shifting, and not covered under the ruling on fair use. Ignoring the legalities of archiving, content providers do not want their programs distributed over the Internet.

Why do you even need to archive? What is wrong with your DVR?

If you need a DVR with more capacity, you can buy the Tivo Series3 with a 1 Terabyte hard drive -- for 120-150 hours of high-definition storage. There's no limit to how long you can store programs on your DVR.

Ok, I'll look into get a D-VHS.

What is the rule of fair use and why is it anyone's business whether I want to watch a tv show or tennis match now or 10 years from now? I'm not planning on distributing anything over the internet, but why do they care if you do?

I have a 750GB external HD as well as several other large capacity external hard drives. All I want to do is copy the contents from the DVR to the external drives, so that I can access them whenever I want.

I have drawers full of tapes in my house of old shows and tennis matches, and if I feel like watching the A-team or the 1992 match between Chang and Edberg I just put it in any vcr in my house and I'm ready to go.

In that sense the DVR is a step backward from the VCR, because now I can only record something until I run out of space, and then I have to get internet hacks and spend hours researching to try and figure out to get the stuff onto one of my large hard drives.

I have my house CAT 6 wired, so I'd then like to be able to watch whatever I recorded on any tv in house in high definition.

At the very least it should be easy to take whatever high def show you just recorded and transfer it to a blu-ray or HD DVD so you can label it and watch it later.

Why is it so hard to save the content you record?

I spent a lot of time and money getting HD televisons, getting the house CAT 6 wired, buying hard drives, etc.
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post #14 of 30
1/22/07 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiebrock View Post

What is the rule of fair use and why is it anyone's business whether I want to watch a tv show or tennis match now or 10 years from now? I'm not planning on distributing anything over the internet, but why do they care if you do?

Remember, copyright law grants the owner/author the exclusive rights for reproduction (copying) and distribution. Before the doctrine of fair use, you could not legally record a copy of a program for later viewing -- you had to buy a copy if you wanted to view it again.

Fair use is the legal doctrine that describes the "exception" to copyright law that permits consumers and educators to legally record content for their own personal use.

Quote:


I'm not planning on distributing anything over the internet, but why do they care if you do?

The same reason you would care if someone sold your property on ebay? Or the same person gave your belongings away for fun?

You don't have any right to distribute the works of others, be it a car, software, music, or television programming. Television programming is sold like any other content -- to the highest bidder for exclusive rights to distribute it via a certain channel or format, in a certain country, and at a certain time. Television content is sold to one channel here in the United States, to another channel in the UK, and to another channel in Japan. Each is broadcast with their own commercials (or sold by special subscription), and they don't necessarily air all at the same time. In some countries, certain content isn't broadcast at all, but rather shown in PPV format. Consider: If you were to record episode #18 of MGM's Stargate Atlantis off the UK's SkyTV next Tuesday, and upload it to the Internet, what incentive would people in the USA have to watch the same program when SciFi broadcasts it for the first time with their own commercials in July?

Taking the example of a sporting event -- major sporting events are often sold on DVD. If you upload a copy of the sporting event, you are depriving the studio of those revenues, which were probably factored into the event's expenses (ex: winnings) at some level. For example, NFL teams receive a portion of the revenue from sales of the Superbowl on DVD, and this goes toward the salary cap. If you uploaded a copy of the Superbowl to the Internet in high-def with DD5.1, what incentive would people have to buy that event on DVD or HD-DVD?
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post #15 of 30
1/22/07 at 9:07pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Remember, copyright law grants the owner/author the exclusive rights for reproduction (copying) and distribution. Before the doctrine of fair use, you could not legally record a copy of a program for later viewing -- you had to buy a copy if you wanted to view it again.

Fair use is the legal doctrine that describes the "exception" to copyright law that permits consumers and educators to legally record content for their own personal use.

The same reason you would care if someone sold your property on ebay? Or the same person gave your belongings away for fun?

You don't have any right to distribute the works of others, be it a car, software, music, or television programming. Television programming is sold like any other content -- to the highest bidder for exclusive rights to distribute it via a certain channel or format, in a certain country, and at a certain time. Television content is sold to one channel here in the United States, to another channel in the UK, and to another channel in Japan. Each is broadcast with their own commercials (or sold by special subscription), and they don't necessarily air all at the same time. In some countries, certain content isn't broadcast at all, but rather shown in PPV format. Consider: If you were to record episode #18 of MGM's Stargate Atlantis off the UK's SkyTV next Tuesday, and upload it to the Internet, what incentive would people in the USA have to watch the same program when SciFi broadcasts it for the first time with their own commercials in July?

Taking the example of a sporting event -- major sporting events are often sold on DVD. If you upload a copy of the sporting event, you are depriving the studio of those revenues, which were probably factored into the event's expenses (ex: winnings) at some level. For example, NFL teams receive a portion of the revenue from sales of the Superbowl on DVD, and this goes toward the salary cap. If you uploaded a copy of the Superbowl to the Internet in high-def with DD5.1, what incentive would people have to buy that event on DVD or HD-DVD?

So you are saying before the doctrine of fair use I was breaking the law by recording He-Man on tape when I was 4 years old? If I watch it now am I breaking the law because it may be released on DVD 30 years from now?

I would care if someone sold my property to someone or gave it away because I wouldn't have it anymore.

If you upload a tv show I doubt it would have much affect on tv viewership. A lot of my friends owned the star wars movies, but when it was on tv they watched it anyway. If you are sitting down watching tv when you get home from work and you see a show you like, are you really going to take the time to go and wait a day to download it on the internet?

I was under the impression that once you buy something you can what you want with it. I just gave some old books to one of my friends. Does that violate the copyright rules too?

With regard to tennis matches, they are never sold and probably will never be sold. The only way to get old matches it by either recording them yourself or trading/buying from other people. What do the copyright holders care if people are watching old matches?

More specically, I want to record content now and watch it wherever I want in my own home. I spent a small fortune on high def tvs, sound equipment, chairs, a screen, etc. Why can't I watch it when and where I want?
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post #16 of 30
1/23/07 at 12:37am
Try asking that to MPAA, RIAA, and other four-letter acronyms.
Your request makes sense to you, me, and everyone else, except them.

BTW, the situation isn't going to get better in the long run, only worse.
Soon you won't even 'own' high-def media you buy in the store, you're at mercy of the content providers to 'authorize' you to view the disk

All this, while people who are actually determined enough to mass-produce and pirate HD contents will keep doing it just the same. The only people suffering are normal users who just want to use the equipment they own.
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post #17 of 30
1/23/07 at 4:01am
Quote:


So you are saying before the doctrine of fair use I was breaking the law by recording He-Man on tape when I was 4 years old? If I watch it now am I breaking the law because it may be released on DVD 30 years from now?

Yes, because you did that in leu of buying He-man on tape.

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I was under the impression that once you buy something you can what you want with it.

Surely you don't believe that when you buy a piece of music or piece of software, you suddenly gain the right to do whatever you want with it, including making a copy for all of your friends? That's not how ownership works. You were not sold the rights to the work, you were sold one copy for your own personal use.

Quote:


I just gave some old books to one of my friends. Does that violate the copyright rules too?

No. However, if you had copied the book and gave the original to your friend, or kept the original and gave a copy to the friend, that would violate copyright law. On the other hand, if you kept the original on your bookshelf and made a copy to keep in your bathroom for reading, that would be legal under "fair use."

Quote:


More specically, I want to record content now and watch it wherever I want in my own home. I spent a small fortune on high def tvs, sound equipment, chairs, a screen, etc. Why can't I watch it when and where I want?

Watching a program on a cable channel is no different than renting a DVD or paying for a PPV program, as far as the law is concerned. You are 'paying' for the right to watch it once by sitting through the commercials. In the past, it was unlawful to record a copy for viewing later --- you had to either buy a copy from the owner, or watch it the next time it was rebroadcast with new commercial sponsors. Now thanks to fair use doctrine, it is legal to timeshift -- to record content for viewing at a later time [instead of watching it live]. Note this is different from archival -- when you archive, you are keeping a permanent copy for unlimited viewing in the future, and you do not own and you did not 'pay' for the right to do that.
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post #18 of 30
1/23/07 at 8:58pm
Thread Starter 
What a lot of people seem to be missing is that just because you record something and watch it later doesn't mean you want to spend $20+ on a tape or DVD of the show. Also, most of what I want to record and watch later are tennis matches which are not sold. Most of the shows I record are also not avaliable for purchase. If you want to go through the effort of recording, editing, and burning a show on DVD you should be able to do it. Why isn't there an easy way to save the content from a HD DVR for your own use just like you could with a VHS tape?

I don't understand this concept of someone saying that you might send it over the internet so they don't want anyone to be able to save it for themselves. Maybe they should stop selling cars because you might use it to run over someone. Kitchen knives should be illegal because you might stab someone with it. Copy machines should be outlawed because you might make a copy of something copyrighted.

I believe that if you buy a piece of work you can give it to your friends if you want and you can use it in whatever room in your house you want. If I buy some music they don't restrict my listening to only one room. I want to be able to watch whatever I record in whatever room in my house I want when I want.

If its legal to make a copy of a book for different rooms, why can't I copy HD content for different rooms and watch at my leasiure, just like I can with a book? DVR's should have a very easy built in feature to save your shows to any hard drive in your network.

I thought the doctrine of fair use said you can record something and watch it later. Why does it matter if you keep only 3 hours of content or 3,000 hours?
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post #19 of 30
1/23/07 at 9:29pm
You're beating a dead horse.
It's not like anything is going to change. DRM + etc is here to stay.
Like I said, people who want to pirate will keep at it with minimum resistance.
People like you will end up at the short end of the stick.
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post #20 of 30
1/24/07 at 7:26pm
anyone know the tvgos number for the los angeles, ca area? I have no VBI now with
pbs(28) and kttv (11) and don't know where else to check? It was working fine on pbs until today. is there a way to search for a channel with vbi data? I have time warner cable in Bev Hills, CA with antenna and cable card

thx
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post #21 of 30
1/24/07 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

If you need a DVR with more capacity, you can buy the Tivo Series3 with a 1 Terabyte hard drive

Is the 1TB external HDD available for the T3?

If it is then is that add on external HDD "married" to that specific T3? In other words if your T3 bites the dust can that external HDD be recognized on any other unit?
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post #22 of 30
1/24/07 at 7:57pm
I'd say unlikely, the drive probably uses a custom/proprietary filesystem which is encrypted to that particular unit. Or else you could just take the drive to your friends and watch HD movies there, which would be totally against the *IAA ideas.
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post #23 of 30
1/25/07 at 9:58am
Get yourself a DVHS and archive all you want.
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post #24 of 30
1/25/07 at 10:01am
You forgot, none of the Tivo doorstops have firewire, so getting a DVHS would be rather pointless for him
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post #25 of 30
1/25/07 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLSDO View Post

Is the 1TB external HDD available for the T3?

The newly announced one terabyte drives don't ship for another 4-6 weeks yet.

Quote:
If it is then is that add on external HDD "married" to that specific T3?

Yes.
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post #26 of 30
1/25/07 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post

You're beating a dead horse.
It's not like anything is going to change. DRM + etc is here to stay...

Yes, we're probably going to be stuck with DRM in one form or another for quite some time, but I wouldn't say its detractors are beating a dead horse. At least I would hope not.

So far, DRM proponents have seemed to be concerned with protecting high definition digital content largely because it's the latest and greatest and the digital format provides for lossless duplication. They haven't seemed nearly as concerned with all the VHS tapes people had collected for years prior - at least in part because duplication wasn't lossless.

Once digital becomes all there is and pretty much anything anybody has is in digital format, the fight against lossless copying may become more difficult and costly to keep up. And what's going to happen 5 or 10 years down the road when current video formats are no longer the "latest and greatest"? The DRM people may have to be devoting more of their energies and focus on the latest generation media at the time, potentially diminishing the resolve needed to protect what will then be older HiDef format material?

There is building momentum for making content portable and for whole-house distribution (where people can move from room to room (i.e. TV to TV) without interrupted viewing of recorded or time-shifted programming. As the distribution model changes based on technical capabilities and consumer demand and where the money is, it's bound to change how content is paid for which would seem to require a new kind of DRM.

I'm not ready to give up hope just yet.
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post #27 of 30
1/30/07 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiebrock View Post


All I want to do is save some really good tennis matches in high def.

Is this screen shot sort of what you'd like to have?



Everything you request is available legally with current technology. I would suggest considering a purchase of a "pre-DRMA" satellite dish receiver that you can have modified to allow recording via firewire. This then allows you to record to hard drive or DVHS tape any HD content broadcast over the air or by satellite without ever being blocked by broadcast flags or copy protection. You can then stream video from a master hard drive via your CAT 6 cable to another computer located in another room and watch the content on your PC compatible monitor.

So long as you don't send this content over the internet, everything described above is legal.

Bob
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post #28 of 30
2/1/07 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marky_Mark896 View Post

If your firewire port is active on the back of your box, you can output it to a PC with some degree of difficulty. I have done it, although it's not fun. There is a thread on AVS about it...let me see if I can find it (please hold)...

Here it is...good luck:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695

Mark


Once you get the drivers installed, it's a piece of cake.
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post #29 of 30
2/2/07 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrabob View Post

I would suggest considering a purchase of a "pre-DRMA" satellite dish receiver that you can have modified to allow recording via firewire. Bob

What are some example of "pre-DRMA" receivers

Michael_M
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post #30 of 30
2/2/07 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by timecop View Post

You forgot, none of the Tivo doorstops have firewire, so getting a DVHS would be rather pointless for him

My post was in response to the original poster that wanted to archive from his Motorola cable dvr, not a tivo.
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