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The X-Meridian 7.1 Thread - Page 69

post #2041 of 2138
So the X-Meridian returns in a 2nd generation guise http://www.guru3d.com/article/auzent...71-2g-preview/
post #2042 of 2138
So, have any of these new OpAmps caught the heart of the members here? I was wanting to try something new.

Currently I have the 4562's and they just plain rock the house with good crisp clean music.
post #2043 of 2138
so there are still people using these, huh? i had thought that with the advent of the hi-def format cards, these would have gone by the wayside... good to hear these cards are still being used!

in fact, i still have mine lying around if anyone is interested... it would be nice to sell it to someone who will use it rather than have it sit in its box gathering dust.

just send me a pm...
post #2044 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyB View Post

So, have any of these new OpAmps caught the heart of the members here? I was wanting to try something new.

Currently I have the 4562's and they just plain rock the house with good crisp clean music.

Hi Anthony Just for your information, my audio playback system is 2.1, utilizing the X-M with 2 separate opamps, one for bass (subwoofer) AD8066 and the other being the (front channels) OPA637's. Hope this helpful.


Rock music is my vice. Rock bands consist of bass guitar players and percussionists with kick drums. The impact of bass in rock music sets the timing or pace for the music. Bass also gives the music depth and dimensionality.

The Analog Devices AD8066/65 opamp really do "KICK and SHAKE"



So what do the ADs bring us more than the LM4562's for bass.

The AD's are more weighty, authoritative, controlled with more grip being tighter, faster with more attack or rythmic pace as well more definitive and articulate. Extension , dynamics or slam factor are equivalent to the LM'S but the bass notes are by far more clearly heard on the ADs. The LM is muddy and overly exaggerated. Bass notes or tones are not nearly as distinctive.

My system includes a powerful subwoofer with extension down to 21 hz. My music listening tastes are generally new hard rock including artists like Seether, Theory of a Deadman etc. As well I listen to Pop,Dance and R&B being J.Timberlake, Rihanna and others.

About the Burr Brown OPA637AU vs LM4562s

I find that the OPA637s excel in clarity, smoothness, being more refined in the vocal and upper frequency range of the scale. As well, the presentation is much more musical bringing warmer fluid harmonic textures not to mention better separation of the instruments. Bass seems to be more limited between the 30-75 hz(after numerous hours of usage) and not as controlled, defined or extended. Upper range details are not as detailed as the LMs But the 637s is far more smooth and silkier.In comparison the LM4562s are much harsher, thinner and as said before more metallic in the upper range. Bass is much more extended, more grip and definitive than the 637s. Overall the LMs presentation is somewhat sterile but more dynamic or punchy. The OPA637s are somewhat laidback.

I could easily live with the OPA637s but I do miss the bass extension, definition and dynamics, rythmic pace, attack or slam factor. Between these opamps I would pick the Burr Brown OPA637s. So that's where the AD8065/66s come into play. Now I have the best of both worlds.

There will always be trade offs between opamps. No opamp is perfect. Its just finding the one that can cover the most bases in your sonic requirements for your own musical tastes.
post #2045 of 2138
Where did you get the Burr Browns?
post #2046 of 2138
post #2047 of 2138
What is Burr Brown?
I can get those TI chips at digikey. I thoght burr's were a brand.

Those are all suface mount chips on that site..

VERY EXPENSIVE .. $29 per chip
post #2048 of 2138
OMG !! If you are serious about this opamp, please do the research. Good luck.
post #2049 of 2138
are you hung over? That was pretty damn rude.

These OpAmps only come in a surface mount
post #2050 of 2138
I'm 'still' using one ...

http://www.avforums.com/forums/sound...ter-today.html
post #2051 of 2138
Are those the bursons with the dip8 header?

n/m I took a very close look at your pic and can see what you did.

What model are those opamps?
post #2052 of 2138
The X-Meridan 2g are on sale now....http://www.auzentech.com/site/index.php...

Does anyone have one installed??
Does the driver allow for room correction in Vista or Win 7??
post #2053 of 2138
Mine should be arriving any day now, sitting with FedEx at the moment..
post #2054 of 2138
What's the chance that drivers for the new X-Meridan 2g will work with the original X-Meridan? Same chip? Should work right? Perhaps an edit of the ini file?
post #2055 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neeto View Post

What's the chance that drivers for the new X-Meridan 2g will work with the original X-Meridan? Same chip? Should work right? Perhaps an edit of the ini file?

+1

I also have the original card somewhere and still remember the terrible cmedia drivers ;-)
post #2056 of 2138
The New 2G driver are out anyone like to try????
http://www.auzensupport.com/site/dow...hp#xmeridian2g
post #2057 of 2138
Bump for anyone interested
post #2058 of 2138
Hi,

I can confirm that the new second gen drivers can be made to work with the first gen cards.
You can't use the standard install as it only works for 2nd gen cards.
But you can install driver directly.

Basic steps are

1. Use the Device Manager to uninstall any existing driver for the Merdian and make sure you tick the "Delete the driver software for this device."
2. In the Device Manger choose Action->Scan for hardware changes.
3. Download 2nd gen drivers from Auzen web site for X-Merdian 7.1 & unzip
4. In Device manager, you should have an "Other devices->"Multimedia Audio Controller"
5. Right mouse click on it, select "Update Driver Software..."
6. Select "Browse my computer for driver software"
7. Browse to the unzipped "Drivers" -> appropriate sub directory i.e XP, Vista, W7 -> SoftwareDriver
8. Tick "Include subfolders"
9. Wait
10. All done - now adjust settings Vista & via Control Pannel

Neeto
post #2059 of 2138
THX Neeto...

Does this driver have room correction??
post #2060 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bignickfly View Post

THX Neeto...

Does this driver have room correction??

Not really

There is only basic db adjustment in the control pannel for "Oxygen HD Adio Configuration"
i.e. "Main Settings" click on the little speaker button in the "Output Device" sub-pannel. Then you can adjust the db per speaker.

But there is no Windows 7 / Vista native room correction enabled.
i.e. Playback devices->Speakers->Properties does not show any additional tabs where the room correction and other fancy stuff can be.

However, there is a proceedure to enable the use of room correction from other audio cards as documented here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post10321557

I'm looking into this at the moment.
I'll post once I get it working.

Neeto
post #2061 of 2138
Ok it looks like I've got the standard Microsoft APO enhancments including Room Correction working

Note I'm using Windows 7 64 bit.

Here is what I did:

1) Start cmd.exe as an administrator and execute these instructions:
cd %windir%\\system32
regsvr32 WMALFXGFXDSP.DLL

If WMALFXGFXDSP.DLL is properly registered, you'll have several regvalues in these keys:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Classes\\AudioEngine\\AudioPro cessingObjects\\{62DC1A93-AE24-464C-A43E-452F824C4250}

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Classes\\AudioEngine\\AudioPro cessingObjects\\{637C490D-EEE3-4C0A-973F-371958802DA2}

2) Regedit
With the registry editor, browse to this regkey:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVer sion \\MMDevices\\Audio\\Render

3) Look at each \\{GUID}\\Properties regkey for string value HDAUDIO and that has \\{GUID}\\FxProperties with "Microsoft Audio Home Theater Effects"
there should be at the least the following keys
{d04e05a6-594b-4fb6-a80d-01af5eed7d1d},1
{d04e05a6-594b-4fb6-a80d-01af5eed7d1d},2
{d04e05a6-594b-4fb6-a80d-01af5eed7d1d},3
{d04e05a6-594b-4fb6-a80d-01af5eed7d1d},0

4) Right click on FxProperts and export to MicrosoftAudioEnhancement.reg

5) In regedit, look at each \\{GUID}\\Properties regkey for string values that describe the speaker output for your sound card. For the X-Meridian it should have strings like "Auzen X-Meridian 7.1" and "Speaker".
Not sure if the digital outputs works as I don't use that, but does work for the analog connections.

6) Right-click on the {GUID} regkey and select rename.
This will highlight the entire GUID string.
Hit Ctrl-C to copy the string to your clipboard buffer.
Hit Escape to cancel the rename operation.

7) Right mouse click on MicrosoftAudioEnhancement.reg select edit.
Paste your card's GUID over the one in the MicrosoftAudioEnhancement.reg file.
You will be replacing the part in the quotes.
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SOFTWARE\\Microsoft\\Windows\\CurrentVer sion\\MMDevices\\Audio\\Render\\"{f5f04cc4-1de9-40ca-a466-8eb0590bae17}"\\FxProperties]

8) With the registry editor, right-click on your card's GUID regkey and select permissions.
Click the advanced button and go to the Owner tab.
Highlight the Administrators group and click Apply.
This will change the owner of this regkey to the administrators group.
Click OK.
On the permissions dialog box, highlight the administrators group and check Allow for Full Control.
Click Apply, then OK.
This will allow you to add the MicrosoftAudioEnhancements.reg file to your card's GUID regkey.
Double-click the reg file to add the FxProperties regkey to your card's GUID regkey.

7) Restart.
You should now have the Enhancements tab on the properties dialog box for the speaker output for your card.
On the Enhancements tab you should have:

Bass Management
Virtual Surround
Room Correction
Loudness Equalization


My MicrosoftAudioEnhancement.reg is attached

Good luck,

Neeto

 

MicrosoftAudioEnhancements.reg.txt 1.18359375k . file
post #2062 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownToTheBone View Post
It would have been very interesting if you'd had just the clock mod done first then reported any changes.

That's the one thing I've not done to my X-M. That and fit the Vishay Bulk Foils instead of those surface mounts resistors and polystyrene instead of those caps.

But you are badly not getting the benefit of those Bursons, or any op-amps, with all those DC blocking electrolytic caps in the signal path.

I used two single TO99 canned LME49710HA op-amps carefully grafted into the sockets, much similar to those Burson fitments, except the chips +ve supply leads need soldering to each other, as do the -ve. The TO99 Dual is MUCH better than the plastic chip 4562 dual, and the two single TO99's are MUCH better than the TO99 dual. After they were fully run in, we still thought they were maybe a tiny bit thin but pretty good. We tried a few other top op-amps and all paled in comparison. Didn't try the AD847, our previous favourite, as I never got around to making a little PCB to fit them into the socket, I didn't want to use the Brown Dog adapters as they use copper tracks. I don't like the sound of copper tracks, foggy and dull, so try and avoid them by hard wiring component to component.

Also, you might benefit greatly by soldering a 0.33uF cap with a 0.022uF polystyrene across it, to the underside of the board across the ± pins of the socket. That's 4 and 8. I used the LCR FSCEX Polystyrene as they are multi layer.

Removing the DC blocking caps is not so easy even for someone good at soldering. Great care and patience is needed to not damage the tracks. Links have to soldered in place of the caps. A few people did this on a thread somewhere that I read last year. I measured the DC offset before I did it to make sure it was low enough.

Another great big improvement is to remove all the caps each side of the regulators and replace them with much much better ones, specifically, Nichicon Polymer 820uF @ 16V and 820uF @ 6.3V. Also some 100uF @ 16V for each op-amp, Burson in your case, ± to the socket. We tried Black Gate NX first, and after months of running in and testing we preferred the Nichicon polymers. Less muddle, cleaner, faster, better dynamics, a fair bit thinner bass than the BG's but better bass.

Also, (I used a bank of three) 820uF at 6.3v across the DAC supply to ground plane is a great improvement; cleaner, more and better better bass. (Fitted at the DAC chip) This will be a problem with the Bursons there. But you might be better with all these mods and change the Bursons to TO99 op-amps. You'd have to try it and see.

I first fitted back diodes across the four regulators to allow those meaty caps to discharge on switch off. Just in case.

Also, there is an electrolytic cap coupling the DAC analogue earth to the ground plane. Replace it with the 10uF Nichicon Polymer with a 0.022uF polystyrene across it; cleaner sound and better dynamics.

I keep saying 'THE' DAC as I only did the first DAC as it's so far only for stereo use.

Another improvement we did here in the UK is to connect a supplementary earth wire to the 'pute chassis. A big improvement in some cases, small in others. All the earth's in the 'pute are direct connected to the chassis as well as the PSU. Including the mobo and sound card. However, the PSU might not be so well connected even though it measures about nil between chassis and IEC chassis plug earth pin. So nil is, by fair assumption, what it's supposed to be. So with star earthing not used, it made sense to better earth the sound card direct to the mains earth by earthing the chassis, anyway, theory aside, it worked well.

Also, a thick mains cable with a Marinco or Wattgate IEC should improve the sound. It made a HUGE improvement to ours. Power, dynamics, slam, clarity, image, focus, you name it, all improved. Though we are all running a 'Super Spur'.

We spent many hours testing the thick cables (10mm2 T&E) with Economy and Shurter IEC 320's, then the Marinco / Wattgate IEC's screwed on and then soldered on. One friend even tried the range of plating; Gold, Silver, cheaper copies and original Wattgate. We found that the Marinco / Wattgate gate more and better bass and treble and transient response and soldered on they gave a lot more and better treble. That pal said the plated ones all sounded different and he preferred the non original silver. He was not soldering on though.

Photos show:

Back diodes on:
±8V regulators for analogue stage (Op-Amps).
+5v regulator for digital supply (DSP and DAC digital).
+5v regulator for DAC analogue supply.
overview showing removed original electrolytic caps pre and post Op-Amp for front speakers and two new Nichicon polymer caps for after the 5v regulators.
Three 0.1uF under the board across the Op-Amp ± pins, later changed to one 0.33uF cap of the same type; Arcotronics R46 series.

Note this was the first stage of modifying. A lot more changed after that which I haven't photographed but basically it's replacement of more capacitors. I've been wanting to add the Vishays but there just isn't quite room. So I'm thinking of making a new board so I can mount them and then also separately mount the single Op-Amps and delete the copper output tracks, a load of superfluous solder joints, delete the components and replace with better ones. That would also facilitate me adding a LME49600 headphone driver to each channel. Or maybe take the DAC dual differential output all the way to balanced output with balanced headphone driving.

See posts below this one for further photos.
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post #2063 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownToTheBone View Post
What clock mod is that?

Thanks.

PS, they've made what could be a mistake with that. They've taken the +12V supply from the sound cards +12v analogue supply, so unless their on board regulation completely stops clock pulse noise from passing back to the supply, which it probably doesn't, there will be clock noise injected into the supply to the Op-Amps and DACS.

Although it means not using their own extra regulation, better might have been to take it from the existing digital +5v supply which is connected to a different ground plane to the analogue in order to try and keep the analogue less noisy.
post #2064 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by erl View Post
so there are still people using these, huh? i had thought that with the advent of the hi-def format cards, these would have gone by the wayside... good to hear these cards are still being used!

in fact, i still have mine lying around if anyone is interested... it would be nice to sell it to someone who will use it rather than have it sit in its box gathering dust.

just send me a pm...
definitely still being used

you need like a $3000 receiver to get the same quality you can for like $120-200 from these cards

granted the no 24bits hollywood thing for bluray stinks (and is utterly absurd)
post #2065 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by morfeeus View Post
Hi Anthony Just for your information, my audio playback system is 2.1, utilizing the X-M with 2 separate opamps, one for bass (subwoofer) AD8066 and the other being the (front channels) OPA637's. Hope this helpful.


Rock music is my vice. Rock bands consist of bass guitar players and percussionists with kick drums. The impact of bass in rock music sets the timing or pace for the music. Bass also gives the music depth and dimensionality.

The Analog Devices AD8066/65 opamp really do "KICK and SHAKE"



So what do the ADs bring us more than the LM4562's for bass.

The AD's are more weighty, authoritative, controlled with more grip being tighter, faster with more attack or rythmic pace as well more definitive and articulate. Extension , dynamics or slam factor are equivalent to the LM'S but the bass notes are by far more clearly heard on the ADs. The LM is muddy and overly exaggerated. Bass notes or tones are not nearly as distinctive.

My system includes a powerful subwoofer with extension down to 21 hz. My music listening tastes are generally new hard rock including artists like Seether, Theory of a Deadman etc. As well I listen to Pop,Dance and R&B being J.Timberlake, Rihanna and others.

About the Burr Brown OPA637AU vs LM4562s

I find that the OPA637s excel in clarity, smoothness, being more refined in the vocal and upper frequency range of the scale. As well, the presentation is much more musical bringing warmer fluid harmonic textures not to mention better separation of the instruments. Bass seems to be more limited between the 30-75 hz(after numerous hours of usage) and not as controlled, defined or extended. Upper range details are not as detailed as the LMs But the 637s is far more smooth and silkier.In comparison the LM4562s are much harsher, thinner and as said before more metallic in the upper range. Bass is much more extended, more grip and definitive than the 637s. Overall the LMs presentation is somewhat sterile but more dynamic or punchy. The OPA637s are somewhat laidback.

I could easily live with the OPA637s but I do miss the bass extension, definition and dynamics, rythmic pace, attack or slam factor. Between these opamps I would pick the Burr Brown OPA637s. So that's where the AD8065/66s come into play. Now I have the best of both worlds.

There will always be trade offs between opamps. No opamp is perfect. Its just finding the one that can cover the most bases in your sonic requirements for your own musical tastes.

I forget which Burr Brown I put in, it was a few years ago, perhaps it was the OPA637. I recall they were pretty expensive per chip, far more than all the others I tried and may have come with a special mounting attachment or something. I definitely like them better than the 4562 that everyone pushes, the latter seemed a bit harsh, thin and metallic, more fatiguing to me and not as smooth. I'm sure I mentioned it early in this huge thread but too lazy to search for it.

I have to look into your AD for the bass trick (although is the sub tied to the center channel? I have a 5.1 setup. perhaps it would still be worth it though, not sure)
post #2066 of 2138
Are you sure it was the 637 and not the 627?

The data sheet for the 637 explicitly states that there must be no capacitive feedback at any frequency, or maybe that was just no feedback, I forget right now. With this sound card there is FB of a 100pf and a 6k8+11k.

Maybe that could explain why it's sounded wrong?

Or maybe it just does does sound wrong. I have two pairs of 627. Tried them in a few places and never like them at all. Very odd sound. I've seen it written that to make them work you need to fit the 0.1uF to 0.5uF across the ± pins, add the 50uF to 100uF from supply pins to earth, and maybe the 'bias into class A' mod. I never tried that with this chip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

the 4562 seemed a bit harsh, thin and metallic, more fatiguing to me and not as smooth.

It is for the first two weeks of continual use. Then by the third week it's gets a lot better. But like I said earlier, nowhere near as good as the TO99 version which is nowhere near as good as two single TO99 versions.
post #2067 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

I forget which Burr Brown I put in, it was a few years ago, perhaps it was the OPA637. I recall they were pretty expensive per chip, far more than all the others I tried and may have come with a special mounting attachment or something. I definitely like them better than the 4562 that everyone pushes, the latter seemed a bit harsh, thin and metallic, more fatiguing to me and not as smooth. I'm sure I mentioned it early in this huge thread but too lazy to search for it.

I have to look into your AD for the bass trick (although is the sub tied to the center channel? I have a 5.1 setup. perhaps it would still be worth it though, not sure)

Its been a while...... give me a little time and I'll spell it out for ya. It can happen in your 5.1 system. Meaning you can utilize the center/sub channels on the same adapter,with both, if you require a Burr Brown OPA637AU (being a single channel)for the center channel and an AD8065 ( btw 8066 is dual channel, 8065 is single channel) I am using the dual channel , but for your purposes its the single that is required)for the sub channel on the same adapter. ANYONE can correct me if I'm wrong.

The dual channel adapter has two surfaces for mounting each single channel opamp chip, being above for one chip and below the other. This is the uncertainty that I have no knowledge of determining which channel above or below is sub or center, to help you if you decide this method.
post #2068 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian AS View Post

Are you sure it was the 637 and not the 627?

The data sheet for the 637 explicitly states that there must be no capacitive feedback at any frequency, or maybe that was just no feedback, I forget right now. With this sound card there is FB of a 100pf and a 6k8+11k.

Maybe that could explain why it's sounded wrong?

Or maybe it just does does sound wrong. I have two pairs of 627. Tried them in a few places and never like them at all. Very odd sound. I've seen it written that to make them work you need to fit the 0.1uF to 0.5uF across the ± pins, add the 50uF to 100uF from supply pins to earth, and maybe the 'bias into class A' mod. I never tried that with this chip.

It is for the first two weeks of continual use. Then by the third week it's gets a lot better. But like I said earlier, nowhere near as good as the TO99 version which is nowhere near as good as two single TO99 versions.

I found it, just 9 pages back (and 3 years back this thread has really slowed down! 7 months to 60 pages and over 3 years to 69!). Yeah it was the 627's.

Here is what I said back then:

"Opa627
Now maybe it is just because i was away from nht 3's for a few weeks, so it is jsut being back to them that has me so enthused, but if what i recall from x-merid hooked up to them before with various other opamps, I am really liking how these new OPA627's sound.

tons of bass, great depth and width to soundstage, no harshness of anything, very, very natural.

i suppose i should go back and compare to LM4562, but I think these OPA627 will be the best. the price makes me hesitant to recommend them though. cost me $75 just to drive FL,FR,C,Sub (have rear with LM4562 still, and i don't have side speakers). tentatively fantastic. perhaps surprising since i thought they were a very old design (even if very highly regarded, at least way back when)."

I'm surprised you think the OPA627 sound very odd since they seem most natural to me indeed and did get lots of fantastic press in the past.

As for the 4562 that had more than two weeks to break in for me.
post #2069 of 2138
Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

I'm surprised you think the OPA627 sound very odd since they seem most natural to me indeed and did get lots of fantastic press in the past.

Yeah, me too. I had high expectations. I tried them in several places. It might just be that their sound depends on what components are around them. I used them only in DC coupled designs. You've used them here in a double DC blocked position, unless you removed those four capacitors?

Most of the good press that I read has been about the B version, I found out after I bought the A version!

How did you try them in the X-Meridian? Brown Dog adapters?

I wouldn't bother with the 4562 again. The TO99 canned LME49710HA however, I bought 10 of them from Digikey for myself and friends.

I'd like to compare them with the AD797 and I guess I should do so with the 627 as I paid so much for them!
post #2070 of 2138
Some more photos:
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