The X-Meridian 7.1 Thread - Page 2

Originally Posted by taranu

I've been lurking here for a long time and I've been following the X-Meridian threads for a while. I've been using the Echo Gina 3G for a while and I thought I'd try the XM since it is praised by a lot of people. Well, I finally got it this weekend and I had the chance to listen to a lot of music since then as well as a few movies. I also upgraded the opamps to the LM4562 discussed in the other thread (X-Fi vs X-M).

I used the analog outputs to connect to a Rega Mira intergrated-amp and a pair of PMC FB speakers. For software I used MCE2005 and for movies TheaterTek. To make the story short, the X-Meridian was not even close to the Gina 3G, especially in the low frequencies. The sound was always thin compared to the Gina 3G. I went back and forth between the cards and the difference was very obvious, especially with music. With movies the difference wasn't very big and the XM had an interesting sound, not necessarily worse.

Now I wouldn't say that the XM sounded bad because I did manage to get used to it fairly quickly and it was so much better than the integrated sound card. It also projected a pretty wide sound stage, very similar to the Gina 3G and the midrange was decent. The Dolby Digital Virtual speakers feature was pretty interesting with movies and I thought it sounded better with it on (on 2 speakers). For movies, the difference between XM and Gina 3G was not very obvious but still the Gina3G's sound was more solid.

I'll probably keep the XM in my HTPC for a few more days and after that I'll move it to my other computer (gaming and work) where I'm sure I'll get a lot of benefits over the integrated one. It's a good enough card that I'll keep it. I'm also going to replace Gina's opamps with the LM4562s this weekend (they're not the DIP type so I have a friend doing it for me) and see if its sounds any better.

For those wondering how the XM will stack up to the Lynx2b I think the answer is pretty clear since the Lynx is supposed to be much better than the Gina 3G.

Originally Posted by taranu

I would just like to add that for the volume, I left the X-Meridian volume at max (in the control panel) and used the amplifier's volume control. Initially I tried it with the volume at half in the control panel (I think it's the default) and I can't say I heard any difference from max so I set it to max. Either way the sound was clean with no sign of distortion. That's what I've done with the Gina 3G too.

Originally Posted by AVOpus

Whoa! I am surprised that you were not getting distortion. One thing I noticed is that certain material was much more sensitive to distortion. Sharp piano notes seemed to be the best benchmark. If it was at full I would be willing to bet that there was some distortion.

Originally Posted by Radiophile

Last night I played with this card some more. I put it in a different PCI slot, reinstalled the driver, and -- it works! That's the good news. The bad news is
1. I still had all my aforementioned problems with the driver design.
2. I found a new problem, the one that AVOpus is no doubt hearing. I didn't dare hook the sound card outputs to my power amps without first looking at them on my oscilloscope. I found, as others reported, that the output level is really high. I measured 4.1 Vrms before clipping. This is an outrageously bad choice for a line level output. The industry standard has been 2 Vrms for years -- that is, a CD or DVD player will produce 2.0 Vrms when playing 0 dBFS content and having its volume control (if any) at max. I know of many devices that produce less than 2.0 Vrms, but this is the first device I've seen that produces significantly more. Just plain bad design, done by designers who don't really understand audio, I'd venture.

Notice that I said 4.1 Vrms before clipping. That's right, I found it was possible to drive the sound card outputs well into clipping when playing 0 dBFS source material and having the PC volume control at or near max. It should never be possible to cause the line level output of a sound card to clip the analog waveform. Clipping in audio should be avoided at all costs. This is basic stuff, well understood by audio engineers for many, many decades. If clipping occurs it should be in the audio power amp, and only then because the user has forced it to happen by listening way too loud. It would be an easy problem to correct if I had the schematic of the sound card or wanted to take the time to reverse-engineer it (I don't) -- just a matter of changing some resistor values, probably. (While I was at it I'd try to reduce the large quantity of electrolytic caps that seem to be present in the signal paths.) As it is, it's clear to me that the designers of this card are pretty clueless.

Despite these problems I decided to have a listen, making sure never to put the PC volume at or near max. Of course with such a high output level, I ended up barely being able to raise the PC volume above zero to get a comfortable listening level. I knew I would have this problem -- my plan originally was to build resistive pads (attenuators) for each channel to go between the sound card outputs and the amps' inputs. Since I had found so many problems with this card and pretty much knew I wasn't keeping it, I didn't bother. The sound I heard was pretty bad -- coarse and grainy. But that would be expected -- since I had the PC volume almost all the way down, I wasn't getting 16 bit (depth) audio, I was only getting maybe 4 bits!

So in the end I find this card completely unsuitable for my needs based on all the problems I've detailed in this thread. I'm giving up on it, I'm not going to communicate any more with Auzentech, and it's going back for a refund.

Originally Posted by nathanjbrown

I posted this in a different thread...But it fits better here:

OK,

I just need an itsy bitsy slice of clarification:

Many have reported that the output voltage (?) is way too hot on the X-Meridian analog channels. If I run these analog outputs to a power amp (i.e. Rotel), what damage might this "hot" voltage cause? And how would it actually do damage?

On MCE2005, I believe the output volume ranges from 0 to 21. Does this mean that I would never be able to crank it beyond 13 (estimate) and that 1 point increment changes would result in DRAMATIC increases in volume?

I'd like to do away with the traditional receiver in my setup and use the HTPC as a pre/pro, but I don't want to be stuck wishing I could listen at a volume of 11.5.

Am I making sense?

Thanks for the help.

Nathan

Originally Posted by Radiophile

I received responses yesterday from Auzentech to my tech support tickets. They apologized for the delay in getting back to me.

About my problems getting the card to work at all, they suggested standard stuff - reseat the card, try another PCI slot, exchange the card for another, etc. I will try it again in another slot, and also try installing the driver again, in a couple days when I get time.

About my request for delay settings for L,R mains and subwoofer, they said they'd consider my request.

ROBSCIX, to your question, here's my list of what I would like added to the X-Mer driver.
1. Delay adjustments for L,R mains and subwoofer outputs
2. Add a 180-degree invert setting for the subwoofer signal
3. Indicate delay adjustments in distance (feet/meters) instead of time
4. Allow amplitude adjustments in 0.1-dB steps instead of 1.0-dB steps
5. Provide amplitude meters (bargraphs, or whatever) for all output channels
6. Add "solo" and "mute" buttons for each output channel
7. Add "phantom center channel" multichannel modes that feed the center channel signal equally to the L,R mains. This is for those of us who don't have a physical center channel speaker.

I should add that everything in the list above (except probably #4) is already present in the M-Audio Revo driver.

Since I got a response from Auzentech and they may actually be listening, I think I'll send them my list (and add items from others if there are any), and/or give them a link to this thread.

Originally Posted by ROBSCIX

All we need is a decent programmer that has a X-Meridian and would like to improve the drivers somewhat. IS there anybody like that that is a memeber of this thread or forum?

Q : Are Auzentech Soundcards compatible with Linux?
A : Auzentech soundcards have limited compatibility with Linux. C-Media, our chipset manufacturer, has released the Linux driver for 8738, 8768, and 8770 chipsets. However, the driver does not support Dolby Digital Live and DTS Interactive. According to C-Media, Dolby and DTS do not intend to open their source for Linux OS. You can download the Linux Driver for CMI8738, 8768+, and 8770 from the Alsa Project:

Originally Posted by watsot

I installed the x-merridian a couple days ago with the lm4562 opamps and am a little dissapointed.I am running the x-merridian directly into a sherwood newcastle A965 amp powering magnepan mmg,s front left and right ,2mmgw's for front center and mmgw's for surrounds and an svs psb/plus2 sub.I was planning on using this card as a pre/pro for music /movies.I will list my 2 biggest problems with this card 1 I can get dolby to decode when playing dvd on computer drive but not through spdif from my toshiba A2,or my cable box. 2 The best sound I could get out of this card was with 2 chanels no prossesing but then it wont enable the suwoofer to work. Also crossovers for active biamping would be nice. After I got the eq adjusted in two channel mode it sounded very good but I cant live without 1 &2 .The reason I am not buying a pre/pro is that my understanding is windows will not let you stream out spdif because of wdm .I am sort of new at this stuff and am trying to build a decent system so any input is appreaciated. thanks

Originally Posted by taranu

I've been lurking here for a long time and I've been following the X-Meridian threads for a while. I've been using the Echo Gina 3G for a while and I thought I'd try the XM since it is praised by a lot of people. Well, I finally got it this weekend and I had the chance to listen to a lot of music since then as well as a few movies. I also upgraded the opamps to the LM4562 discussed in the other thread (X-Fi vs X-M).

I used the analog outputs to connect to a Rega Mira intergrated-amp and a pair of PMC FB speakers. For software I used MCE2005 and for movies TheaterTek. To make the story short, the X-Meridian was not even close to the Gina 3G, especially in the low frequencies. The sound was always thin compared to the Gina 3G. I went back and forth between the cards and the difference was very obvious, especially with music. With movies the difference wasn't very big and the XM had an interesting sound, not necessarily worse.

Now I wouldn't say that the XM sounded bad because I did manage to get used to it fairly quickly and it was so much better than the integrated sound card. It also projected a pretty wide sound stage, very similar to the Gina 3G and the midrange was decent. The Dolby Digital Virtual speakers feature was pretty interesting with movies and I thought it sounded better with it on (on 2 speakers). For movies, the difference between XM and Gina 3G was not very obvious but still the Gina3G's sound was more solid.

I'll probably keep the XM in my HTPC for a few more days and after that I'll move it to my other computer (gaming and work) where I'm sure I'll get a lot of benefits over the integrated one. It's a good enough card that I'll keep it. I'm also going to replace Gina's opamps with the LM4562s this weekend (they're not the DIP type so I have a friend doing it for me) and see if its sounds any better.

For those wondering how the XM will stack up to the Lynx2b I think the answer is pretty clear since the Lynx is supposed to be much better than the Gina 3G.

Originally Posted by dweekie

Well, it's been a little over a week now and it appears you tested without breaking in the opamps or the x-meridian at all. Also, you seemed to have the Gina sound in your head, and sometimes it's hard to get away from a sound that you are used to. How would you characterize the sound between the two now?

Originally Posted by greggplummer

Just curious...?

Why do you think an electronic component, like a solid state device or even wire needs to be broken in? From an electrical engineering perspective it makes no sense. Can you point me to any credible information that might explain the physics of how these things change audibly over time? Personally, I think it is a lot like an urban legend, but has been repeated so often that people have accepted it as fact. In some cases, I think it is close to being a scam. Some manufacturers of "audiophile" speaker wire claim there products need a 90-day break-in period. How convenient... especially since the credit card purchases are only protected for 60 days.

Originally Posted by dweekie

I don't want to go into arguments of break-in, but what the heck. Shot summary.
1) may or may not occur.
2) current measurements don't prove or disprove the theory.
3) future measurement tools may prove or disprove the theory.
4) theory that the world was round was not proven until the right tools for observation and interpretation were formed. Flat world just seemed to make more sense at the time.

Maybe your theory is the flat earth, or maybe cables really do change. Regardless, I'd still like a second opinion on the comparison now. A week of use is really very different from any quick weekend opinion on any comparison. I think we all can agree on that. I mean, we don't pick wives based on just a weekend comparison to previous girlfriends, do we?