Denver, CO - OTA - Page 53

Anyone else having trouble getting a KBDI signal today? All I'm getting is a test pattern and it says "Video Lock Error, KBDI Analog Simulcas" from my EyeTV software.

The KCNC/CBS HD telecast of the Bronco game today was terrible. Constant blocking every 20 to 30 seconds and audio breakups. Why do they even bother?

I checked it both OTA and on DirecTV on both my HR10 & HR 20 with the same results.

I would be interested in hearing KCNC's explanation.

Almost as bad as the game itself.

I had the same problems with KCNC today. Thought it was my antenna, so I fiddled with the rotor but it didn't help. When I switched to E*, it wasn't any better. Apparently, KKTV in the Springs had the same problem from posts on that thread. They blamed KKTV's multicasting, but KCNC doesn't multicast. Wonder if it was a CBS problem.

I tried to record the Stevie Ray Vaughn concert last night off of the D* SD channel (don't get the OTA DTV signal here) and appparently got an hour or so of the same test pattern. I guess KBDI must have been off the air on both SD and HD versions.

I recorded the game off of the D* local HD channels and noticed the same pixellization problems etc. I also have noted a few posts on dbstalk which indicated that the NFLST version had similar problems. It sounds like this was a bad day for the national CBS feed as well as the local football team. Fortunately or unfortunately as the case may be, the game recording was not worth keeping anyway, or even worth much of a second look.
Oh well, this may be a great weekend compared to the next one, with Oklahoma playing at CU and the Broncos facing Indy, it could be a LONG weekend for local football fans.

I was up at my daughter's place SA/SU and because her husband is a Packer fan, the game was obviously on the TV. I also noticed there were plenty of times when there was macroblocking that had nothing to do with the game. At times, the audio even dropped out for a moment at the same location in time. They are on Time-Warner cable and I thought it was either the cable system, or the local affiliate.

Since I was not at home, I couldn't tune in the actual CBS net feed to find out. Then again, even if I was at home, I wouldn't have had it on

BTW, I did get out of Dodge before the game was over, in order to avoid the traffic.

Either KRMA-DT's fooling with their transmitter again or they've moved back to Mt. Morrison today as I'm currently getting "No Signal" from them but don't have any issues with any of the other RP signals.

Just checked a minute ago, and I am still getting them with my RP antenna.

Yep, they were gone from around 11:00 AM and returned, from RP, later in the afternoon.

I can only wonder if I'll get to see the balance of The War in HD before they switch back to Morrison.

I hope they leave it alone, at least though next week. I complained to them about moving it around during the premiere of such an important series. Then I set my second machine to record both HD and SD, just in case.

No love for you, MR. Looks like they switched back to Mt. Morrison sometime today.

Can anyone recommend a reasonable Broomfield-area antenna to purchase for picking up the stations broadcasting from RP? I'm on top of a hill in Broomfield (the two blue watertower area near 136th and Main). The only stations I care about are ABC, NBC, and CBS.

Is this doable with a inside-attic antenna, or is that asking too much?

If I need to go outside, so be it. Do I have to be line-of-sight? I could get above the neighbors with a short mast, but I'm wondering if I need to. Their house is about 30 feet away. We're both equal height two-stories, but it's downhill to RP so I'd have to point "through" their house without a mast. Would an amplifier be needed from Broomfield? AntennaWeb says I need a large directional with amp, but my other neighbor claims he can (rarely) pick up these digital stations with a simple indoor rabbit ears (he does have a UHF loop on that). It just seems a wide variation to go from practical experience indoor marginal reception, to recommended outdoor large directional with amp. Can anyone tell me what practical experience shows as needed? I know, no promises, just a general hint might help me though. Where to buy the antenna? Lots of online places I've found, is there anything local?

Thinking ahead a few years, I already have an attic mounted medium directional VHF antenna that picks up SD locals just fine. I assume this will be good enough for digital come 2009 - is that correct?

Thanks

I am west of you in the Heatherwood/Gunbarrel section of Boulder and I use the RadioShack UHF only antenna for the RP stations. If it doesn't work you can always return it, so it is a good place to start.
Radio Shack UHF antenna
I get everything just fine with the antenna lashed to a post on my outdoor deck. It was a 'temporary' setup I put up about 5 or 6 years ago. You can give the attic a try, but I would 'guess' with the relatively weak signals from the RP you might have a problem on at least one or two of the stations. If you can find a temporary outdoor setup you will likely have more success. The real truth is, as many have mentioned in the thread, these signals are often a matter of inches either way and pointing can be pretty critical. You may want to try a few locations outside just holding the antenna to see if you are getting anything close to what you need before you actually mount something. My antenna pointing at RP still has enough gain in the sidelobes to pick up eveything on Lookout (no Mt. Morrison though) but I doubt you have the same angles from Lookout. Keep the cable run as short and direct as possible and you may not need an amplifier, I don't use one here.

As for the future, you will still need a VHF/UHF antenna for the attic, but once the signals are full power you may find things pretty forgiving. No one can say for sure until that day arrives. It may be that even rabbit ears will work in many locations at full power.

Frankly, a Silver Sensor, if you can find one, will probably work.

If you want an outdoor or attic antenna, I'd recommend a Channel Master 4221:

Yep - back to a big ol' goose egg on the signal strength meter for me.

Guess I'll watch The War on DVD, instead.

I live a few blocks away from John, and I use the Channel Master 4228 to pick up the RP stations. I actually have two of them - one mounted outside on my deck and another up in my attic; I get all 4 of the RP stations reliabley with both antennas, and usually get the LOM stations as well.

I also recently intalled in my garage the RadioShack U75R which John mentioned. This one is pointed at LOM, and with that orientation I can receive KRMA-DT from Mt. Morrison, something that was not possible with the old antenna it replaced. I'm not able to get the RP stations with my U75R, but that's because of where I have it pointed, not the antenna itself.

From a high location in Broomfield, my guess is that ANY of the three antennas (CM4228, CM4221, or RS U75R) recently mentioned will work for RP if mounted outside, and will PROBABLY work even if mounted in the attic.

As you say, no one can say for sure until that day arrives. But my "UHF-only" antennas bring in a very clear signal from analog 7 and 9, which are the only VHF stations I'll have to worry about after 2/09. So I am not anticipating having to replace antennas again.

Thanks JMartinko, kucharsk, and oxothuk for all the help on my Broomfield-antenna questions. You've given me a good headstart on what I should be looking for.

I'll try something in the attic first - simply because I'm already wired up to there and it will be simple to just see if it works (crossing my fingers!) Going outside won't be bad either. I'm having new Dish receivers installed Friday and I hear the two newer receivers only require a total of two leads coming down from the dish - I currently have four. So in theory, I can steal one of the extra leads I'll have come Friday and add about 20 feet more RG6 to take it further up the chimney to an outside UHF antenna.

Good luck! Just remember, the low power signals are pretty sensitive to various blockages etc. so if you try the attic and can't get a good signal, be sure to move the antenna a few feet either way and try again. Full power stations shouldn't be nearly as much of a problem in the future.

I did a bit more research on what I have (I forgot what I put up in my attic years ago). It's a CM3016 (medium directional, VHF/UHF UHF gain = 7.7dB). It's currently pointed at Lookout Mtn. with only my attic wall (foil-backed siding) in the way. The top of one tree may be barely in line also, but that tree is a good 50 feet away and I think I'm probably over the top of it anyway. I pointed the attic antenna first with a compass, then fine tuned it by hauling a small TV up there and observing the (analog) picture as I fudged antenna direction.

Given the above, I though I'd be able to get 20.1 and 31.1 since they're coming from Lookout and I thought were pretty strong, correct? No deal. I got zero signal registered at the TV. Analogs come in just fine over that same antenna, same TV setup. AntennaWeb says I only need a small multidirectional to pick up the digitals from Lookout (but amplified largedirectional for RP). Since I'm in an attic I would surely need more, but I thought attic+mediumdirectional might trump outdoors+smallmulti. No ... not in my case.

So my unscientific testing tells me I'm just going to have to go outside. My existing CM3016 might make it for the low power UHF's outside if I point it correctly, but maybe not, and I'd then have to buy a higher gain new antenna.

I was hoping for the easy way out. Guess not. bummer!

Thanks again everybody!

I don't know if KRMA changed anything or just got things up and running again. I'm actually seeing 14% from them now if I turn my antenna towards Morrison. Line of sight is right thru my house, I'll have to try the antenna elsewhere in my yard and see what happens.

Well i was told to consult you fine gentlemen in my quest!
I'm looking to purchase an antenna (attic mounted) and an HD DVR
Heres my stats: 1691B S. Idalia Cir Aurora CO 80017

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
green - vhf KBDI 12 PBS BROOMFIELD CO 260° 36.7 12
* red - uhf KBDI-DT 12.1 PBS BROOMFIELD CO 260° 36.7 38
red - uhf KCEC 50 UNI DENVER CO 268° 23.1 50
red - vhf KUSA 9 NBC DENVER CO 268° 23.0 9
red - vhf KRMA 6 PBS DENVER CO 268° 23.7 6
* red - uhf KTVD-DT 20.1 MNT DENVER CO 268° 22.9 19
red - uhf KPXC 59 ION DENVER CO 258° 21.8 59
* red - uhf KPXC-DT 43 ION DENVER CO TBD 258° 21.8 43
red - uhf KTFD 14 TFA BOULDER CO 268° 23.0 14
red - vhf KWGN 2 CW DENVER CO 268° 23.1 2
red - uhf K48FW 48 TBN DENVER CO 248° 3.6 48
red - uhf KWHD 53 IND CASTLE ROCK CO 145° 19.3 53
red - vhf KMGH 7 ABC DENVER CO 268° 23.1 7
red - vhf KCNC 4 CBS DENVER CO 268° 22.9 4
red - uhf KDVR 31 FOX DENVER CO 268° 23.1 31
* blue - uhf KDVR-DT 31.1 FOX DENVER CO 268° 23.1 32
blue - uhf KDEN 25 IND LONGMONT CO 340° 28.8 25
blue - uhf KRMT 41 DAY DENVER CO 245° 22.2 41
* blue - uhf KRMT-DT 40 DAY DENVER CO TBD 245° 22.2 40
blue - uhf KSBS-LP 18 TEL DENVER CO 202° 24.4 18
* blue - uhf KWHD-DT 53.1 IND CASTLE ROCK CO 145° 19.3 46
* blue - uhf KRMA-DT 6.1 PBS DENVER CO 283° 10.4 18
* blue - uhf KUSA-DT 9.1 NBC DENVER CO 283° 10.4 16
* blue - uhf KMGH-DT 7.1 ABC DENVER CO 283° 10.4 17
* blue - uhf KCNC-DT 4.1 CBS DENVER CO 283° 10.4 35
* blue - uhf KWGN-DT 2.1 CW DENVER CO 268° 23.0 34
blue - uhf KMAS-LP 63 TEL DENVER CO 258° 21.8 63
blue - uhf KZCO-LP 27 AZA Denver CO 258° 21.8 27
* blue - uhf KCEC-DT 51.1 UNI DENVER CO 268° 23.0 51
blue - uhf KDVT-LP 36 TFA DENVER CO 268° 23.1 36
blue - uhf KDEO-LP 23 REL AURORA CO 258° 21.8 23
blue - uhf KHDT-LP 45 ABC WINDCLIFF, ETC. CO 292° 30.2 45

Posted by sunshinedawg:

From my antenna pointed at RP, their signal has dropped from the high 70's down to 64-65. That lower signal level is what I had when they first went to Morrision, so I believe they are up and running there again.

Had to put my antenna way up in a Aspen tree to get line of sight to Morrison. Got 6-1 at 51% where I was getting nothing from them previously. It's going to be a real pain, but at least I got a lock. I need to have an amp. There's no way I'm gonna run two antennas and two amps, one for RP and one just for KRMA. I actually have a 2nd antenna, but I'm not buying any more amps. I'll just wait for LM to come on line and I'm sure if I point at Morrison, I'll get Lookout, they are only a few degrees off from my location in Longmont.

BTW, since people mentioned it, that Radio Shack U75R is what I have in my attic pointed at RP from Louisville.

As I've mentioned previously, it picks up KWGN-DT and KDVR-DT just fine from Lookout but doesn't see a single signal strength bar from KRMA-DT's Morrison location.

Frankly, I'll wait to see if I can get them from an antenna pointed at Lookout.

Aside from The War there hasn't been anything in their three-hours-a-night HD schedule to interest me, and "Create" gets real old, real fast.

While YMMV, I am feeding 2 antennas into my CM 7777 pre-amp using a splitter connected backwards. I use (2) 6' RG6 cables from the antennas to "outputs" of a cheap splitter, and another 6' RG6 cable from the "input" of the splitter to the combined UHF/VHF input on the Channel Master pre-amp. One of the antennas is a VHF/UHF suburban rated antenna and the other is the Radio Shack U-75R UHF only antenna. Everything is in my attic. I have been able to get the antennas pointed so that I get RP, Lookout, and KRMA digital. The only Lookout station I have a problem with is KRMA analog which is watchable, but noisy. Sometimes it does not look much better than KDEV-LP(39). Lately I have even been getting KBDI digital with some regularity.

Don't you need to have two preamps, one for each antenna? The "preamp" you are describing is actually the powersupply that runs power thru the RG6 and powers the preamp(the part that goes on the antenna mast). I actually have two RS powersupplies, but I burned out one of the preamps when it got wet one day. I don't think you can purchase just the preamp part(RS), or I would just do that.

No, the CM7777 is the pre-amp. I am using that cheap splitter as a combiner to feed the 2 antennas into the pre-amp input. In my case, the output of the CM7777 connects to the power supply/power injector through an RG6 run which is long enough to get to location with a a 110 volt outlet. The antennas, combiner, and pre-amp are in the attic. The power supply/power injector is in a second floor bedroom.

Actually, in my case, it is not quite that simple. My cable arrangement is less than ideal. I needed to split the output of the preamp before the power supply, so the output goes to a splitter with a single power pass. The power pass output goes to the power supply/power injector and on to a TV. The non-power pass output goes through a cable to a splitter to 2 other cables which feed other TVs.

My original note said YMMV. I realize that combining antennas is more art than science. I admit that my results may be mostly good luck. The cables from the antennas to the combiner should be well matched in length and type to have a fighting chance.

Any input please would help a lot. I just need to know what to purchase (antenna, amps, pre-amps, cabling etc) I was told to ask here since you guys live close by and have experience with this
thanks again