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post #8221 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

Please note that the "classics" you referred to have been discontinued for more than a year. If you can still find any NOS, you're likely to pay a premium for them.

I'm not sure what you are referring to, since you quoted the preamplifiers. If you meant the CM4228 then yes, the original antenna is no longer made. As far as the preamps go, the 7775 is no longer made, but the 7777 and 7778 are still being made and are widely available.
post #8222 of 8459
Strange Guide Info situation

Today I noticed something strange on the Program Guide info on a couple of stations (KRMA-6 and KBDI-12). All my tuners seem to be getting the correct time info from the stations I watch (except for 28, which is off in never-never land as usual), but the guide info displayed on these 2 stations is wrong. It seems to be for the program that was an hour earlier. The other stations seem to be fine, but with long events, like sports, a problem might not be immediately obvious.

Only my Vizio, VX32LE directly reports the current time, and it seems to be close for all stations (except 28).

Since the Vizio reports the correct time on 6 and 12, it would appear that it is getting the current universal time, and DST time parameters OK. The time Zone info is correctly set in all the tuners. The only thing I can imagine is that program info in the PSIP is shifted off by an hour for those 2 stations, but I have no idea how that could have happened. I don't recall any recent program info issues on these stations, other than 12, occasionally not having any program info at all, on one or more of the sub-channels.

Anybody know what's going on?
post #8223 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenavs View Post

Strange Guide Info situation
Since the Vizio reports the correct time on 6 and 12, it would appear that it is getting the current universal time, and DST time parameters OK. The time Zone info is correctly set in all the tuners. The only thing I can imagine is that program info in the PSIP is shifted off by an hour for those 2 stations, but I have no idea how that could have happened. I don't recall any recent program info issues on these stations, other than 12, occasionally not having any program info at all, on one or more of the sub-channels.

Anybody know what's going on?

Your guess was correct. The PSIP program data was off by an hour. How did that happen? I don't know, but my guess is that some engineer didn't realize that the data is sent in GMT and doesn't need adjusting (that's up to your tuner being set correctly and the station properly sending the PSIP STT DST data). Perhaps an engineer thought some adjustment needed to be made for DST and made a change where a change should not have been made. Anyway, it looks like they've corrected it now.
post #8224 of 8459
"Bounce TV" is part of a contract arrangement several Telefutura "multi-cast" stations such as KTFD 14.1. Programming is geared toward Af-Amer. audiences and is in English. See the www.bouncetv.com link for more info. Bounce appears on 14.2 and I've already added the listing to the channel guide on the "O T A HDTV" Page on my Web Site.

"Smoke Talker"
Web Master of www.RMRondyNews.com
post #8225 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmar View Post

I live in Fort Collins and have two different antennas mounted outside on the roof (attached to my chimney). KWGN is a full power station that broadcasts on channel 34 (UHF) from Lookout Mountain, and is very easy to get here in Fort Collins with any reasonable antenna. The only area in Fort Collins that can be tough is if you live really close to the foothills (the more north you get the worse it is). Otherwise you should be OK.

Getting KUSA and KMGH can be a little harder since they are high VHF stations. I know people who have gotten them on rabbit ears, but not reliably. You either need a really large antenna that covers high VHF in your attic or a smaller high VHF antenna mounted on your roof. I have a ChannelMaster 4228 (original design) which is an 8 bowtie antenna. That antenna is primarily meant for UHF reception. It is highly directional and is great at pulling in even weak UHF stations in the Denver area (it is aimed directly at Lookout Mountain). There was some talk about it being OK for high VHF reception, but it doesn't work very well for receiving Denver high VHF stations. So, I kept the 4228 for UHF and then installed an AntennaCraft antenna that is the equivalent of the current Y5713. This antenna is only 5 foot long and is intended for only channels 7-13. It turns out that with a good preamp it is also great as an omnidirectional UHF antenna. I wound up installing separate tuners on each antenna since the Y5713 got some UHF stations that the CM4228 did not. The CM4228 is more sensitive, but since it is highly directional it did not get channels that were off axis. With the Y5713 I get KPXC (Ion network) which is northeast of Denver, and all of the Cheyenne stations.

Depending on the orientation of your attic it might be a lot easier to install as large an antenna that will fit inside your attic. Antennas installed outside should be properly grounded, which makes the install more difficult, not to mention the hardware. An attic install can be done with just a few nails and suspending the antenna from small ropes. Large Yagi antennas very directional, so you need to aim them at Lookout Mountain, which may limit the size if the long direction of your house is East-West, Also, your roof material may hamper reception (I have a metal roof which completely kills the possibility of an indoor attic install).

If you will have a long cable run to your TV or if you will be feeding multiple TV's (or even a single TV through old wiring that includes splitters) then you should also install a good antenna preamp near or at the antenna. A cheap preamp will actually make things worse. I'd highly recommend the ChannelMaster 7775, 7777 or 7778, depending on your needs. Note that the 7775 is UHF only. I have two CM 7777's (one for each antenna).

Anyway, if you provide more details about your location, type of install, etc. we can probably give more detailed advice.

Thank you! I'm probably looking at a Winegard 7698 with a pre-amp for a roof/eave mount. Do you think that would work? I'm sort of west central Fort Collins just between Taft Hill and Overland Trail just north of Drake. I'm having a heck of a time finding someone to install in the area. Any suggestions on that? Also, is a rotator necessary if I'm primarily aiming for the Denver channels over Wyoming? Thanks again!
Edited by umalum99 - 3/11/13 at 1:28pm
post #8226 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmar View Post

I'm not sure what you are referring to, since you quoted the preamplifiers. If you meant the CM4228 then yes, the original antenna is no longer made. As far as the preamps go, the 7775 is no longer made, but the 7777 and 7778 are still being made and are widely available.

The "classic" 7777 & 7778 were discontinued over a year ago and replaced by new editions that kept the same model numbers. The new and the old version of the amps have little in common except the model number and the metal case. Among the most notable changes made is that they became single -input amps rather than having separate UHF and VHF inputs.
post #8227 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by umalum99 View Post

Not sure if this the right place to post, but I'm going to be going OTA soon. I live in Fort Collins and I'm wondering if anyone on here in the Fort Collins area has any luck getting KWGN (CW) out of Denver. If so, what is your set up? What antenna do you have and how is it mounted? Thanks for the advice!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmar View Post

Getting KUSA and KMGH can be a little harder since they are high VHF stations. I know people who have gotten them on rabbit ears, but not reliably. You either need a really large antenna that covers high VHF in your attic or a smaller high VHF antenna mounted on your roof. I have a ChannelMaster 4228 (original design) which is an 8 bowtie antenna. That antenna is primarily meant for UHF reception. It is highly directional and is great at pulling in even weak UHF stations in the Denver area (it is aimed directly at Lookout Mountain). There was some talk about it being OK for high VHF reception, but it doesn't work very well for receiving Denver high VHF stations. So, I kept the 4228 for UHF and then installed an AntennaCraft antenna that is the equivalent of the current Y5713. This antenna is only 5 foot long and is intended for only channels 7-13. It turns out that with a good preamp it is also great as an omnidirectional UHF antenna. I wound up installing separate tuners on each antenna since the Y5713 got some UHF stations that the CM4228 did not. The CM4228 is more sensitive, but since it is highly directional it did not get channels that were off axis. With the Y5713 I get KPXC (Ion network) which is northeast of Denver, and all of the Cheyenne stations.

That's good to know about the Y5713...

To add to jsmar's comments:
I live in NW Fort Collins, and have a Radio Shack U75R (I think it's now discontinued) installed in my attic. I get all of the UHF channels from Lookout Mountain very well (I also have a ChannelMaster 7777 preamp installed). KUSA comes in fairly well with this antenna during the winter, as does KMGH, even though it's a UHF yagi design. In the summer, forgittaboutit.

Recently, I've been picking up a translator of KMGH (KZCO) on UHF 17. It's a low-power station, so I don't expect it to be reliable year-round.
post #8228 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by bretski View Post

That's good to know about the Y5713...
Just to be clear, it works well outdoors. I'd have doubts about it being big enough to be an effective attic antenna.
post #8229 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post

The "classic" 7777 & 7778 were discontinued over a year ago and replaced by new editions that kept the same model numbers. The new and the old version of the amps have little in common except the model number and the metal case. Among the most notable changes made is that they became single -input amps rather than having separate UHF and VHF inputs.

Wow, thanks for the heads up. I did a little research and I can see that the CM7777 is no longer something to recommend. I'm having a hard time understanding why they would "improve" the design by raising the noise figure so much. Now it would appear that Winegard and Antennas Direct are the way to go (within reasonable price ranges).
post #8230 of 8459
jsmar,

You may also want to look at the Kitztech KT-200. That's the amp I use and I really like it.

- Trip
post #8231 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

jsmar,
You may also want to look at the Kitztech KT-200. That's the amp I use and I really like it.
- Trip

Wow, those are reasonably priced. I had mentoned "reasonable prices" in my previous post because there are a variety of esoteric TV preamps that cost significantly more. If one of the CM 7777's ever die I'll certainly consider replacing it with the Kitztech. However, there probably are a certain amount of diminishing returns when you get below a NF of 2 (the old CM 7777 had a noise figure of 2.0 on UHF). There's going to be a certain amount of noise on the bands from a variety of sources (may not be as true if you live in a rural location) that would reduce the usefulness of ever smaller noise figures. At this point there are very few stations that are broadcasting in the region that I don't already get (e.g. some of the low power stations in Denver and Boulder), and almost all of them are repeating stations that I already receive. It would make more sense to install a bigger antenna if I really wanted to get more stations.
post #8232 of 8459
Quote:
(the old CM 7777 had a noise figure of 2.0 on UHF)

Lol... Only in their marketing literature...

Samples of the old ones I've tested have averaged around 4 dB+ on VHF and 2.8 to 3.3 dB on the UHF side. The new 7777 is actually around 2 dB on VHF and averages around 2.8 dB on UHF. However, with a gain of about 30 dB on both bands, it's a heck of a lot easier to run into problems with strong signal overloading.
post #8233 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by umalum99 View Post

Thank you! I'm probably looking at a Winegard 7698 with a pre-amp for a roof/eave mount. Do you think that would work? I'm sort of west central Fort Collins just between Taft Hill and Overland Trail just north of Drake. I'm having a heck of a time finding someone to install in the area. Any suggestions on that? Also, is a rotator necessary if I'm primarily aiming for the Denver channels over Wyoming? Thanks again!

Mounting a 7698 outdoors takes a really strong mount. It may be overkill for your location. You definitely don't need a rotor if all you care about are the stations on Lookout Mountain (KCNC, KMGH, KUSA, KGWN, KDVR) and Mount Morrison. If you want ION (KPXC) you might not get that (the more directional the yagi the lower the chance of getting off axis stations), since it is off to the east, but there is a ION low power station here in Fort Collins.

How is your house oriented? I have a friend who lives in roughly the same area whose house was roughly oriented (in the long dimension) N//S. I advised them to just install the largest Winegard yagi antenna that would fit in his attic (they were not open to an outdoor install). I think they were happy with the result, but I'll try to get a report on which stations they receive reliably, and which antenna they installed. That area is lower than my location (SW Fort Collins near Taft Hill and Harmony), so reception may not be as good as my location, but I suspect that one of Winegards smaller high VHF/UHF yagi's (i.e. the 7694 or 7695) will do quite well (and possibly even better than the 7698 for off axis stations if you care about them).

I'm not sure there is anyone in Fort Collins who does antenna installs. I know there are contractors in the Denver area who will come to Fort Collins to do installs, but I don't remember any names. Doing a search came up with R&T Electric in Evans and Sound Media Solutions in Thornton. Make sure you don't cut corners on the mount if you decide to stick with the 7698. Also make sure they properly ground the antenna and coax. The ground wire should run the shortest distance possible (minimizing bends and making any necessary bends as large a radius as possible) to a ground rod. Unless the house ground rod is fairly close a separate ground rod should be installed. But in that case another ground wire should be run between the two ground rods to tie the two grounds together. A professional installer should do this without asking, but it never hurts to verify.
post #8234 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post

Lol... Only in their marketing literature...

Samples of the old ones I've tested have averaged around 4 dB+ on VHF and 2.8 to 3.3 dB on the UHF side. The new 7777 is actually around 2 dB on VHF and averages around 2.8 dB on UHF. However, with a gain of about 30 dB on both bands, it's a heck of a lot easier to run into problems with strong signal overloading.

I'm not surprised about the older version not being as good as the marketing literature. I am more surprised about the new version, since the only spec I found was a claim from ChannelMaster saying the noise figure was less than 5db, which I took to mean 4.9 db smile.gif.

Have you had the chance to measure the new 7778?
post #8235 of 8459
Channel Master has finally stated the noise figure on the new 7777 to be 2.8. With reportedly better design circuitry than the original version. But the higher gain of 30db may indeed be too much for many applications, whereas the new 7778 with 16db gain is probably more than adequate. But it is regretable that they eliminated the dual input feature for separate UHF/VHF antennas. And the new 7777 has been unavailable everywhere for months, but the 7778 can currently be purchased. Although as mentioned, Winegard and Kitztech models are indeed worthy of consideration.
post #8236 of 8459
Thanks! The more I look, the more the 7698 does seem big. The 7696 with a preamp has been recommended for my area too. My house is oriented with the front facing northwest and the back of the house facing southeast. I'll contact R&T and Sound Media Solutions. I found one electrician in the Fort Collins area who installs, but he is booked until mid April and then has a waiting list.

Thanks for the advice and info!
post #8237 of 8459
Inadvertent double post. Sorry.
post #8238 of 8459
The Winegard 8700 preamp may be a good choice along with the 7696 antenna. Both are good products. And Solid Signal is usually one of the more reasonably priced online vendors, as there are not many brick and mortar stores anymore that carry Winegard products such as Walmart, Lowes, etc. Although interestingly, Costco does carry their Flatwave indoor antenna.
post #8239 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

jsmar,

You may also want to look at the Kitztech KT-200. That's the amp I use and I really like it.

- Trip

I use a Kitztech KT-100VG as a distribution amp and it works great. I run the feeds from the VHF and UHF antennas into the crawl space, combine them with a UVSJ, and then boost them with the amp. It works well.
post #8240 of 8459
KTFD added Bounce TV as their dot 2 channel sometime in the last few days.
post #8241 of 8459
Looks like March 9th per facebook

Hey Bouncers,

They say good things come to those who wait.
For the following cities... The Wait Is Over.
Bounce TV is now live in BOSTON on WUTF-TV channel 66.2.
SACRAMENTO on KUVS-TV channel 19.3.
TAMPA on WFTT-TV channel 50.2.
SAN FRANCISCO on KFSF-TV channel 66.2.
DENVER on KTFD-TV channel 14.2.
MIAMI - FT. LAUDERDALE on WAMI-TV channel 9.2.
post #8242 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

KTFD added Bounce TV as their dot 2 channel sometime in the last few days.

They haven't worked out all the PSIP bugs, apparently. Bounce on 14.2 causes my tuner to re-set repeatedly, as if it's starting from scratch, and the sound is missing from 14.1.

The east side of the metro area (at least) also has a new HD channel, as KQDK 39.1 has ditched its analog operation. It's now a 1-kW ATSC broadcast carrying MundoFox Spanish-language programming in 720p.

FWIW, the FCC's TV database contains a typo in KQDK's longitude coordinate. I'm getting this broadcast from southwest Aurora at a 22-dB signal-to-noise ratio. There's no way I could get this from the listed longitude of -102.876, which is a good 140 miles and two edges from my house. If you correct that to -104.876 and combine it with the 39.675 latitude listed, you get the location of KQDK's tower, which has always been visible just to the northwest of Parker Road and East Iliff Avenue.
post #8243 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by umalum99 View Post

Not sure if this the right place to post, but I'm going to be going OTA soon. I live in Fort Collins and I'm wondering if anyone on here in the Fort Collins area has any luck getting KWGN (CW) out of Denver. If so, what is your set up? What antenna do you have and how is it mounted? Thanks for the advice!

I'm not far from the post office on Boardwalk in south Fort Collins. I have an old CM4228 on my chimney, feeding an old CM7778 inside the house (yeah, still haven't put the thing up on the antenna). The preamp output goes into a 4-way splitter, feeding a Tivo Premiere and an unsubscribed Dish receiver and a Slingbox and my TV. I get more than I expect, and it's all pretty reliable. I get solid service on ABC and NBC on VHF hi, and I get ION off-axis and KGWN and KLWY Cheyenne off the back of the antenna (I guess I could wish for more reliable service for KGWN's NoCo5 signal). I get KCDO further off-axis, but it's a bit flaky. When I run a tvfool.com report, I get signals down to a -9dB noise margin on the list, provided they are on-axis, which rocks. I have not logged in here all that often since things are working well and changes are infrequent.

Rob T
post #8244 of 8459
Hello all,

I just picked up a Winegaard FL5500C from Costco last night (I think it's essentially the FL-5500A but the costco version) and ran a scan using my Samsung Plasma. The Antenna is taped up in a west facing window and I think I've got pretty good reception. Was hoping to maybe get some feedback on what you all think. I tried skimming the thread but seriously, it's 275 pages long… wink.gif Searching didn't really provide any usable results. Too bad there's no way to put up a sticky of the commonly received scan results.

Anyhow…

I picked up 54Digital channels and one Air (channel 36 maybe, but no sound). They all come in pretty good. The three ION channels at 59.x were the toughest to pull in but they did show up.

Most channels were either 720p or 480i. A few were 1080i (none were 1080p).

After going through and deleting the channels that have content I don't care about I had about 24 channels. Not too bad, I don't think.

I'm in NW Denver, kind of up on a hill in the highlands. How do these results compare to what other folks get? I'm not home now so don't have a complete list…

Thanks,
-sb
post #8245 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by boondongle View Post

I just picked up a Winegard FL5500C from Costco last night...
That's pretty close to everything available OTA hereabouts. Because the antenna is amplified, though, it remains to be seen whether it will provide reliable reception when atmospheric and environmental changes occur -- nearby trees leafing out, higher or lower humidity, high summertime temperatures, and so forth. Our first digital panel worked just fine when we first hooked it up to the "flying saucer" amplified antenna we had in the attic in the middle of winter five years ago. Once mid-April arrived with its higher humidity and leaves, about a third of the stations started dropping out. You may not experience any of this, though, as every location is different.
post #8246 of 8459
I'm in the same boat, here, what with Comcast announcing its intent to start encrypting their Limited Basic tier. I really liked getting my network stations without a roof antenna, but I guess it's time to go shopping.

Please let us know how things go with your antenna choice and installer, since I'll be needing both shortly (Horsetooth and College).
Quote:
Originally Posted by umalum99 View Post

Thanks! The more I look, the more the 7698 does seem big. The 7696 with a preamp has been recommended for my area too. My house is oriented with the front facing northwest and the back of the house facing southeast. I'll contact R&T and Sound Media Solutions. I found one electrician in the Fort Collins area who installs, but he is booked until mid April and then has a waiting list.

Thanks for the advice and info!
post #8247 of 8459
I did a re-scan this last Sunday PM & my older ILO 32in flat found 45 channels (including subs). Does NOT include KPXC, KPJR (high hill to my North) & KZCO-LD. Antenna is a Winegard MS-2000 (up 30-foot above ground) combined with an ancient POS 8-element V/UHF ant (abt 6-foot above ground) pointed SW from 65th & Federal.

"Smoke Talker"
Web Master of www.RMRondyNews.com
post #8248 of 8459
It appears that KTFD may add a second English language network this fall. No info on the actual markets, but 17 out of the top 20 sounds like good odds. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
Sony Pictures Television is jumping into the subchannel business with the digital network GetTV, which will launch this fall on Univision stations in 24 markets, including in 17 of the top 20 DMAs. It will be available in 44% of U.S. TV homes. Sony is actively selling GetTV to other station groups.
Quote:
GetTV will be Univision’s second venture into English-language subchannels. It has begun to launch African-American diginet Bounce TV in some of its markets.

Read More: http://www.tvnewscheck.com/article/66984/sony-pictures-tv-to-launch-movies-diginet
post #8249 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkreichen1968 View Post

It appears that KTFD may add a second English language network this fall. No info on the actual markets, but 17 out of the top 20 sounds like good odds. rolleyes.gif

RabbitEars.info confirms KTFD will carry GetTV on 14-3. A Sony Pictures Television press release on Monday mentioned a fall 2013 launch date.
Edited by Don_M - 4/24/13 at 6:38pm
post #8250 of 8459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don_M View Post

RabbitEars.com confirms KTFD will carry GetTV on 14-3. A Sony Pictures Television press release on Monday mentioned a fall 2013 launch date.

It's not hard to guess. Univision owns 25 stations and the press release said it would launch in 24 of those markets. I am guessing the one it is not launching in is Raleigh, which is already pretty full.

- Trip
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