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post #12241 of 12791
Hello,

I posted this in the receiver subforum, but I always get better feedback from local folks, so if you have any advice, I'd love to hear it!

I need some advice on choosing a receiver for this task:

-- I will have 4 outdoor speakers around my pool/patio and want to be able to connect them to a receiver that will be located inside the house

-- I could connect all 4 outdoor speakers to the same "zone" or two each to separate zones, it doesn't really matter. (2 will be patio area, 2 will be pool.)

-- I'd also like to connect a couple of speakers to the workshop in the basement (this is where the receiver will be located)

-- Someday I might want to connect this receiver to speakers elsewhere in the house

-- I think I need at least one digital input, see below

-- It would be great if I could change the input from outside the house, but I realize this may not be possible.


So, what do I want to play?

-- I want to be able to play AM/FM radio

-- I want to be able to stream my mp3s from my Windows Home Server. Will most likely accomplish this through Apple's AirPlay by purchasing an Airport Express and connecting it to the receiver.

-- I'd like to be able to stream Internet radio like Pandora


I've been looking at all kinds of new and used receivers and just can't find what would be best. I looked at the Pioneer VSX-1021-K which will basically do everything I want (AirPlay built in) but is awfully pricey. I thought I might be able to find something less expensive.

Any advice on receivers?

Thanks for any help!
post #12242 of 12791
I just saw the new Harry Potter movie in 3D last night(only option for the advanced screening). This is a post converted 3D experience. The only native 3D I've seen is Coraline. Compared to Coraline, this was OK at best. On it's own, it wasn't too bad. There were 3 or 4 shots that stood out as bad and gave me double vision, these were long shots of Harry standing far away, distant shot of the caves under Gringotts and 2 exterior shots with clouds in the distance. This "double vision" could have been caused by sitting too far to the side in the theater, but that should not happen if you are paying for 3D. Outside of those shots, the 3D was handled quite well. There was good separation, but it was still the "cardboard cutout" style of 3D rather than the "multidimensional objects on multiple planes" style of Coraline(or i would guess Avatar, or anything shot natively).

I hadn't planned on paying to see it in 3D, but I'm glad I'll have the point of reference and will give my opinion after Friday about whether the movie is best experienced in 3D or 2D.
post #12243 of 12791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Bester View Post

I just saw the new Harry Potter movie in 3D last night(only option for the advanced screening). This is a post converted 3D experience. The only native 3D I've seen is Coraline. Compared to Coraline, this was OK at best. On it's own, it wasn't too bad. There were 3 or 4 shots that stood out as bad and gave me double vision, these were long shots of Harry standing far away, distant shot of the caves under Gringotts and 2 exterior shots with clouds in the distance. This "double vision" could have been caused by sitting too far to the side in the theater, but that should not happen if you are paying for 3D. Outside of those shots, the 3D was handled quite well. There was good separation, but it was still the "cardboard cutout" style of 3D rather than the "multidimensional objects on multiple planes" style of Coraline(or i would guess Avatar, or anything shot natively).

I hadn't planned on paying to see it in 3D, but I'm glad I'll have the point of reference and will give my opinion after Friday about whether the movie is best experienced in 3D or 2D.

Conversions can look pretty bad. Hollywood has jumped onto the 3D bandwagon in the worst way - with hurried 3D conversions and bad films. And then they wonder why enthusiasm for 3D seems to be waning. Imagine that - people don't want to pay extra for a bad 3D experience. Coraline was a good 3D film, as is Avatar. Some of the Imax films are also quite good. I really like Grand Canyon Adventure, narrated by Robert Redford. There are several others, but there are a lot of real 3D stinkers, too. There's nothing like a good film that's shot natively in 3D. The bad ones leave a sour taste in peoples' mouths and make it easy for critics like Phil Swan of TVPredictions to rail against 3D technology. That guy is on a relentless crusade to convince everyone that 3D technology is a total waste of time.

I see 3D technology as just another tool for the filmmaker. Used well, it enhances the experience. Used poorly, it adds nothing and makes it harder for some people to take 3D seriously. One bad 3D film doesn't say anything more about 3D than one bad 2D film says about 2D film making.

Personally, I'm enjoying the ability to create my own 3D material. In the past couple of weeks, I've learned how to burn my own 3D Blu-ray discs from material I shoot with my JVC 3D camcorder. I'm working on a Shaw's Garden 3D video right now, and for me it's as close to being there as I can get without walking the paths myself. I'm also loving the video this camcorder produces. The image quality has pleasantly surprised me.
post #12244 of 12791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post


... I'm working on a Shaw's Garden 3D video right now, and for me it's as close to being there as I can get without walking the paths myself. I'm also loving the video this camcorder produces. The image quality has pleasantly surprised me.

Maybe we can work out our bi-decade meetup and watch it
post #12245 of 12791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Bester View Post

Maybe we can work out our bi-decade meetup and watch it

You're welcome over any time. You may have to put up with my never ending mess of electronic upgrades and re-modeling, though.

The video should be a lot more polished looking in a couple of weeks or so.
post #12246 of 12791
If you're averse to conversions, you'll find this bit of news especially troubling:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...D_Network/7239
post #12247 of 12791
Well I saw the movie in 2D last night. It was easier to watch, and brighter. So I lean to 2D for the harry potter movie. However, the presentation wasn't perfect(or even adequate). It was film rather than digital and I think there may have been something wrong with the gate on the projector. The brightness would flutter from top to bottom in a fairly regular pattern throughout the film. I was able to block it out after the first 10 minutes or so, but I did notice it a few more times until I forced myself to avoid it. The flutter gave me a bit of a headache. When we see it again, I will definately make sure it is a digital presentation, but I'll go for 2D. Coraline however was great in 3D at the theater and it isn't even too bad with the yellow/blue glasses. If we had a 3D tv, that's the first movie we'd grab...
post #12248 of 12791
Is the fcc really going to get rid of free ota tv?
post #12249 of 12791
It looks like they're doing their best to cripple it, at least. VHF, particularly VHF-Lo, just does not work well with digital TV, particularly at the current max power levels, which the FCC steadfastly refuses to raise. Removing the 20 or so stations that they're talking about would force even most medium size markets to have a major network affiliate stuck on VHF-Hi, and almost every large market (that doesn't already) would at least have 1 major network VHF-Lo affiliate. (Incidentally, one of the current commissioners holds interests in online video. If the 20 channels are removed, they will be repurposed for mobile Internet. Looks like a classic conflict of interest to me.)

Edit: Not to mention the fact that another band restructuring so soon after the digital transition and while stations are currently upgrading to HDTV equipment would be prohibitively expensive. At the very least, it would drastically slow the adoption of local HDTV newscast equipment, to the detriment of current and potential HDTV buyers.
post #12250 of 12791
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tootal2 View Post

Is the fcc really going to get rid of free ota tv?

I don't think anyone at the FCC or elsewhere in government is talking about completely shutting down free OTA television.

But OTA is a stagnant industry that is generally shrinking in terms of viewers, of which only about 15% access it via antenna. As a result, there's a strong argument for re-weighting how communications spectrum is allocated. Local TV broadcasting occupies a significant chunk of high-quality, waterfront spectrum, and when less than one in six households is making use of OTA, it's past time to think about how the spectrum used to deliver that service can be put to better, broader use.

So, for now, it's likely that there will be some effort to reduce the slice of spectrum that is available for local television broadcasting. That will primarily be accomplished by reducing the available channel range and putting current channels closer to one another and with few new licenses issued going forward. Currently channels 2-51 are set aside for TV broadcasting, and I would expect that swath is ultimately cut roughly in half. At the same time, there may be some effort to encourage marginal TV stations to exit the market, allowing them to make some money on the way out the door as their spectrum (for which they don't pay) gets sold off.
post #12251 of 12791
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc9hzn View Post

It looks like they're doing their best to cripple it, at least. VHF, particularly VHF-Lo, just does not work well with digital TV, particularly at the current max power levels, which the FCC steadfastly refuses to raise. Removing the 20 or so stations that they're talking about would force even most medium size markets to have a major network affiliate stuck on VHF-Hi, and almost every large market (that doesn't already) would at least have 1 major network VHF-Lo affiliate. (Incidentally, one of the current commissioners holds interests in online video. If the 20 channels are removed, they will be repurposed for mobile Internet. Looks like a classic conflict of interest to me.)

Edit: Not to mention the fact that another band restructuring so soon after the digital transition and while stations are currently upgrading to HDTV equipment would be prohibitively expensive. At the very least, it would drastically slow the adoption of local HDTV newscast equipment, to the detriment of current and potential HDTV buyers.

There may be a conflict of interest there (we are talking about government leeches, after all). But the issue isn't about using the power of office to pick winners and losers. OTA TV is on the decline and digital and mobile services are on the rise -- and nothing anyone has said or will say in government is a determining factor.

Making this about corruption misses the fundamental point of using scarce public resources in the way that provides the most benefit overall.

Also, if you polled HDTV buyers, I doubt that any significant number would cite OTA HDTV broadcasting as a primary reason for their purchase. Even after a digital transition that took more than a decade, most consumers are blissfully unaware of OTA HDTV. Kudos to the broadcasters for that particular success story.
post #12252 of 12791
My major concern is that any band restructuring that forces more stations onto VHF, particularly Lo, will be used to justify further restructuring, along the lines of "Oh look, fewer people are using OTA TV. That'll free up more bandwidth for mobile Internet," ignoring that it was this restructuring that caused stations to move to the much less effective VHF bands in the first place. Although I would be less opposed to it if they simultaneously overrided all local cable monopolies and brought cable competition to every market, as this would serve to make cable considerably cheaper for the lower class people that make up the bulk of OTA viewership.

Edit: That wouldn't be enough to completely justify it, though. I would never agree to a proposal that completely kills off OTA TV because, as both a ham radio licensee and an Eagle Scout, I know the importance of infrastructure-less communications in emergency situations. Also, OTA is an important incubator for new and niche services/networks, such as MeTV or foreign language programming, such as the Korean language content you see in some cities. Cable carriage rules stifle these niche services.
post #12253 of 12791
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroptheRemote View Post

OTA TV is on the decline and digital and mobile services are on the rise -- and nothing anyone has said or will say in government is a determining factor.

That's debatable. Not the part about mobile services on the rise, but about OTA being on the decline. OTA has seen a slight uptick in exclusive users from the statistics I've seen and I suspect those numbers will rise as people eliminate cable/satellite services to save money.

Additionally, none of the OTA statistics that are commonly tossed around include people who use OTA in addition to cable/satellite. If a single TV set in a home is hooked up to cable or satellite, all other sets in the house are disregarded, even if one or all use OTA. A study that I cited in my college thesis on the subject showed that in one market that officially has about 13.5% OTA usage, when you count secondary sets not hooked to cable/satellite toward the number of OTA households, the market has 37% OTA usage.

- Trip
post #12254 of 12791
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc9hzn View Post

My major concern is that any band restructuring that forces more stations onto VHF, particularly Lo, will be used to justify further restructuring, along the lines of "Oh look, fewer people are using OTA TV. That'll free up more bandwidth for mobile Internet," ignoring that it was this restructuring that caused stations to move to the much less effective VHF bands in the first place. Although I would be less opposed to it if they simultaneously overrided all local cable monopolies and brought cable competition to every market, as this would serve to make cable considerably cheaper for the lower class people that make up the bulk of OTA viewership.

Agree on more cable competition -- that's probably ultimately going to the biggest overall benefit gained from AT&T (Uverse) and Verizon (FioS) entering the pay TV market, as they did quite a lot to bust up the monopoly structure. Now, if AT&T, Verizon and other carriers would figure out that they'd very likely do much better financially by providing the pipes for other Pay TV companies rather than trying to deliver Pay TV services themselves, we might be onto a good thing in the long run. Neither AT&T nor Verizon are racking up big subscriber numbers, so there is hope.

Roughly 60% of households the US government defines as poor have either cable or satellite TV, versus an overall average around 80%. No doubt there are some genuinely poor households that would be inconvenienced if OTA completely withered away, but it's unlikely that's on the horizon for another 20 years or more.
post #12255 of 12791
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

That's debatable. Not the part about mobile services on the rise, but about OTA being on the decline. OTA has seen a slight uptick in exclusive users from the statistics I've seen and I suspect those numbers will rise as people eliminate cable/satellite services to save money.

Additionally, none of the OTA statistics that are commonly tossed around include people who use OTA in addition to cable/satellite. If a single TV set in a home is hooked up to cable or satellite, all other sets in the house are disregarded, even if one or all use OTA. A study that I cited in my college thesis on the subject showed that in one market that officially has about 13.5% OTA usage, when you count secondary sets not hooked to cable/satellite toward the number of OTA households, the market has 37% OTA usage.

- Trip

But would that additional 23.5% of households even miss OTA if it completely went away (and again, it's not going away)? I'd be willing to bet you that at least a third of those 23.5% of households are households where the antenna is connected to an analog TV that rarely was switched on and wouldn't receive any signal today if the owner suddenly tried to watch something on it. It's the flip side of not knowing about HDTV OTA.

TV broadcasters had a golden opportunity over the past decade to promote OTA to their customers and very few made even a half effort. So, if they can't be bothered, why should anyone else care? Local broadcasters were clearly more interested in figuring how to get more money out of cable and satellite retransmission. And let's be honest, if those TV companies had to choose between promoting OTA or maximizing retransmission revenues, they did the right thing by their shareholders in focusing on retrans. Maybe they should have done both, but they didn't. Must be a reason.
post #12256 of 12791
5 people i work with use ota. They say im rich becouse i have cable.
I have cable and a antenna on my tivos. So i guess im counted as a cable house.

also metv 46.2 does start on 8-1-11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

That's debatable. Not the part about mobile services on the rise, but about OTA being on the decline. OTA has seen a slight uptick in exclusive users from the statistics I've seen and I suspect those numbers will rise as people eliminate cable/satellite services to save money.

Additionally, none of the OTA statistics that are commonly tossed around include people who use OTA in addition to cable/satellite. If a single TV set in a home is hooked up to cable or satellite, all other sets in the house are disregarded, even if one or all use OTA. A study that I cited in my college thesis on the subject showed that in one market that officially has about 13.5% OTA usage, when you count secondary sets not hooked to cable/satellite toward the number of OTA households, the market has 37% OTA usage.

- Trip
post #12257 of 12791
I understand that OTA HD is less compressed than cable/satellite. That seems to be driving up the readption of OTA as much as the price of cable. At the very least, it's lifting the number of joint cable & OTA households.
post #12258 of 12791
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kc9hzn View Post

I understand that OTA HD is less compressed than cable/satellite. That seems to be driving up the readption of OTA as much as the price of cable. At the very least, it's lifting the number of joint cable & OTA households.

This was gloriously true before local broadcasters started adding multiple subchannels, which rob bandwidth from the HD stream in order to facilitate the alternative subchannels.

Until Blu-ray came along, OTA HD on stations without subchannels, was the best HD you could view. That's no longer true, and I don't think there's any meaningful difference between most OTA HD and what can be found on cable/satellite systems. I used to advocate to my clients that they have an OTA antenna for watching local stations OTA, even if they were cable/satellite subscribers. I don't do that anymore, because the minimal benefit does not justify the hassles involved.
post #12259 of 12791
My cable hd channels are so compressed they look dull. even dvds look better then cable hd. They use to look good till they added 25 new hd channels.
I thought they would compress shows less after they started sdv.
Why do they even need to compress channels when there using sdv?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DroptheRemote View Post

This was gloriously true before local broadcasters started adding multiple subchannels, which rob bandwidth from the HD stream in order to facilitate the alternative subchannels.

Until Blu-ray came along, OTA HD on stations without subchannels, was the best HD you could view. That's no longer true, and I don't think there's any meaningful difference between most OTA HD and what can be found on cable/satellite systems. I used to advocate to my clients that they have an OTA antenna for watching local stations OTA, even if they were cable/satellite subscribers. I don't do that anymore, because the minimal benefit does not justify the hassles involved.
post #12260 of 12791
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tootal2 View Post

Why do they even need to compress channels when there using sdv?

Because they are providing Internet access, home phone AND trying to pack 50 pounds of HD stations into a sack capable of holding 25.
post #12261 of 12791
Next up on the Dead Air Festival here at stlhdtv.info we're taking your calls. Yes, caller. You are on the air. Caller? Helllllooooo...

All I hear is crickets....
post #12262 of 12791
Quote:
Originally Posted by kugumby View Post

Next up on the Dead Air Festival here at stlhdtv.info we're taking your calls. Yes, caller. You are on the air. Caller? Helllllooooo...

All I hear is crickets....

Umm...I wanna place an order for carry-out...
post #12263 of 12791
Yes, it has been rather quiet in here all summer. My excuse is my now 3 month old son, and my older two kids are keeping me too busy.

On a related topic, my new Samsung 3D TV is pretty nice, however my first venture into Blu-ray ended after only watching about 6 movies before my player quit working Been too busy with everything else to reserve a long phone call with tech support. At least my DirecTV whole-home lastest 6 weeks before one of the receivers stopped talking to the DVR....at least it wasn't the downstairs TV in the kids play area, NOT!
post #12264 of 12791
I'm in New York right now. Anything new out of KPTN-LD?
post #12265 of 12791
As of yesterday, no. Still home shopping on 7-1, color bars on the other three sub-channels.
post #12266 of 12791
Thread Starter 
Saw the item below this morning in going through the latest news on the Debt Ceiling negotiations in Washington.

It looks like Senate Majority Leader has inserted some language into the Senate Democrarts proposal that would allow the FCC to proactively start moving OTA broadcasters off prime spectrum, with some share of sale proceeds to be used to pay the costs of relocating. Hard to say if this bill/proposal is going anywhere (ditto all the other Debt Ceiling proposals), but this one adds a little additional spice (as if that were actually needed).

Via Broadcasting & Cable Online:
_____________________________________________________

The Democratic debt-reduction bill being shopped by Senate Minority leader Harry Reid Monday allows the FCC to repack TV stations at will. The bill authorizes the FCC to compensate broadcasters for giving up spectrum for wireless broadband, but does not contain language directing the FCC to replicate their coverage areas or interference protections.

That likely wasn't what National Association of Broadcasters President Gordon Smith had in mind when he said he did not oppose making spectrum auctions a part of debt-reduction legislation so long as they got the policy right.

According to a copy of the bill, "if the Commission determines that it is in the public interest to modify the spectrum usage rights of any incumbent licensee in order to facilitate the assignment of such new initial licenses subject to new service rules, or the designation of spectrum for an unlicensed use, the Commission may disburse to such licensee a portion of the auction proceeds for the purpose of relocating to any alternative frequency or location that the Commission may designate."

Broadcasters are looking for compensation, but also for protections for their coverage areas and from the dislocations of massive channel changes.

The bill does cover "reasonable" relocation costs, as well as any costs incurred by cable and other MVPD operators for new equipment or construction related to carriage of relocated broadcast stations.
_____________________________________________________

Link: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art..._s_At_Will.php
post #12267 of 12791
A quiet summer is good. A far cry from the transition.

Dean, would you like fries with that? :-)
post #12268 of 12791
Quote:
Originally Posted by kugumby View Post

A quiet summer is good. A far cry from the transition.

Dean, would you like fries with that? :-)

Supersize me.
post #12269 of 12791
Quote:
Originally Posted by kugumby View Post

A quiet summer is good. A far cry from the transition.

Dean, would you like fries with that? :-)

FRIES?????? They'll kill you, according to Michelle. You must mean apple slices
post #12270 of 12791
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post
FRIES?????? They'll kill you, according to Michelle. You must mean apple slices
Oh yeah....apple slices....Batter coated, deep fried apple slices!
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