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St. Louis, MO - HDTV - Page 425

post #12721 of 12968
Sorry it took a while to reply. I wanted a fresh viewing of both a Hulu stream and an OTA broadcast of the same show before making comments.

Just got done comparing the OTA broadcast of last week's ARROW (via DirecTV HR20) to the same episode via Hulu Plus on the Roku box.

Hulu feed was 720p stereo, decoded into Pro Logic surround by my Pioneer Elite receiver. OTA was 1080i 5.1 Dolby Digital from KPLR 11-1, recorded on my DirecTV HR20 (which has an input for OTA antenna in addition to the normal satellite input).

Internet streaming has come a long way. Picture on Hulu was very good. Nowhere near as good as 11-1 used to be before KPLR started multicasting, but almost as good as 11-1 looks nowadays. The OTA broadcast had just a tad more detail on forest scenes and clothing textures, and of course sounded better. However, the OTA broadcast was filled with animated pop up ads, not only for other CW shows, but for Weber Chevrolet and other paid ads. Very, very distracting and annoying. These were thankfully missing from the Hulu stream, which had nothing but a stationary CW bug. The OTA broadcast also had several glitches/dropouts which manifested themselves as white/silver lines on the screen with accompanying pops in the audio... again thankfully missing from the Hulu stream.

I believe DirecTV just takes the existing OTA signal and recompresses it into mpeg-4, so the satellite feed would be about the same as the OTA signal with a few more compression artifacts. Before the locals all started multicasting, they were all quite a bit better looking than the DirecTV feeds. But now that they've all drained off bandwidth for anywhere from 1 to 3 more subchannels, the difference is nowhere near what it used to be. But I suspect "noise" on the OTA feed would simply be reproduced intact on the satellite feed.

I do find it annoying that I pay $8 a month for Hulu Plus and it still has commercials, but the commercial breaks are usually just one or two ads (and never more than three). Compare that to KPLR's anywhere from six to ten ads per break.

If you're willing to pay per episode, Amazon Instant Video steams this same program with better picture quality than Hulu, no ads (not even the CW bug), and 5.1 channel Dolby Digital through the Roku box (only stereo through the Blu-ray player). But I personally find $2.99 per episode a bit steep.

So I think I'm going to be doing most of my Arrow/Revolution/The Following viewing via Hulu Plus for the rest of this season anyway.

Hope that helps!
post #12722 of 12968
Much good information. I would expect OTA to still be the best option from a PQ perspective, but there are few events I would be willing to pay $3 a piece for. That's real steep when you take into account how many channels and events my family normally views every month. It would be a HOUSE PAYMENT!

Those annoying pop ups are the latest attempt to circumvent DVR commercial skipping. Expect them to get more frequent and LARGER.

I guess this puts my griping into perspective. Actually the Ch. 5 audio issue seems to have improved lately. Was it my notes to them or just dumb luck? I'll bet we'll never know.......
post #12723 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post


Those annoying pop ups are the latest attempt to circumvent DVR commercial skipping. Expect them to get more frequent and LARGER.
What are they doing? I guess I'm not watching that much TV, but I haven't noticed anything unusual. What are these popups?
post #12724 of 12968
I'll let Bob answer that since he brought it up. I assumed he was referring to those mini ads that are superimposed onto the screen while you're viewing an event. You know, they tend to swoosh in to advertise a future event and then drop off. I don't watch KPLR at all but I have seen these annoying ads on basic cable channels like TBS or TNT.
post #12725 of 12968
You assume correctly. Only on KPLR it's not only for upcoming programs, but paid ads completely unrelated to programming of any kind. During last week's ARROW there was one for Weber Chevrolet, for crying out loud.

Amazon is definitely the Cadillac of the online streaming business, with picture quality better than Hulu or Netflix. But due to the price for new shows that haven't made it to the "Prime" package ($80 per year for unlimited streaming), I'm watching ARROW, REVOLUTION, and THE FOLLOWING on Hulu.
post #12726 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Simandl View Post

You assume correctly. Only on KPLR it's not only for upcoming programs, but paid ads completely unrelated to programming of any kind. During last week's ARROW there was one for Weber Chevrolet, for crying out loud.

I'm finding less and less reason to watch TV all the time. If it weren't for my wife I would just cancel DirecTV and find other ways to watch what little I do -- mostly non-NASCAR auto racing and educational shows on NatGeo, History and Science channels, etc..
post #12727 of 12968
Comparing THE FOLLOWING on KTVI versus Hulu Plus is a totally different experience. The 5.1 channel sound on KTVI totally blows away the plain old stereo on Hulu (ARROW on KPLR had 5.1 channel sound versus the stereo sound on Hulu too, but the difference was nowhere near as dramatic). I wonder if THE FOLLOWING hired some of 24's sound engineers, because 24 always had a soundtrack far superior to anything else on TV and THE FOLLOWING's 5.1 track on KTVI is bringing back memories of that show.... that didn't happen when I watched the previous episode in stereo on Hulu last week.

This one might be worth paying the $2.99 per episode to watch on Amazon, but I'll probably buy this on Blu-ray when it inevitably comes out in September (shortly before season 2 starts, hopefully). So KTVI and Hulu will do for now.
post #12728 of 12968
What a difference a week makes. The Following on KTVI dropped down to a 4x3 letterboxed upconvert for the final segment Monday night. Stupid screwups like this never happen on Hulu (other than when Charter's internet has too much traffic).
post #12729 of 12968
The SD upconvert is another "old" issue I thought was long gone. How the heck can that still happen in 2013????? All the bugaboos from 2003 are returning to KTVI. Did they rehire former engineers?mad.gif
post #12730 of 12968
New CBS show "Under the Dome" (from Stephen King) will stream 4 days later on Amazon Prime. This is a biggie, and not just because CBS usually doesn't like its shows streaming anywhere but cbs.com. Unlike most new shows on Amazon which stream for $1.99 per episode in SD and a buck more in HD, this show will be included in Amazon Prime. So anyone who's paid the $79.99 a year for Prime (cheaper than Netflix) gets the show FREE.

I don't think I'll bother setting the DVR. For this show anyway, Roku/Amazon here I come.
post #12731 of 12968
Jim @ KDNL,

I know you're the most tuned-in of all the local engineers and I hope you're doing well. Please allow me to report something I have noticed about Channel 30's audio. The issue is present in the OTA signal as well as the satellite feed from Dish Network. Note that this is not noticeable thru ordinary TV speakers but is quite obvious when the audio is played thru a home theater system that has a subwoofer for deep bass.

Essentially, the bass appears to be turned up way too much and is overpowering. It's as if the "Loudness" control is engaged and on steroids. Whenever I tune to Channel 30 on either one of my two home theater setups with sub woofers, there is often an overpowering, loud rumble in the background. This becomes quite obvious at times and can depend upon environment or other factors. Male voices can also be difficult to hear at times when the "booming" is intense. It's not all the time but it does pop up often and only on KDNL. My guess is there is a either a boost in the extreme low end of the frequency spectrum or perhaps a subsonic, rumble filter needs to be engaged. Again, you will not hear this thru a TV but it drives my sub woofers crazy at times. So I am probably not alone.
post #12732 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

Jim @ KDNL,

I know you're the most tuned-in of all the local engineers and I hope you're doing well. Please allow me to report something I have noticed about Channel 30's audio. The issue is present in the OTA signal as well as the satellite feed from Dish Network. Note that this is not noticeable thru ordinary TV speakers but is quite obvious when the audio is played thru a home theater system that has a subwoofer for deep bass.

Essentially, the bass appears to be turned up way too much and is overpowering. It's as if the "Loudness" control is engaged and on steroids. Whenever I tune to Channel 30 on either one of my two home theater setups with sub woofers, there is often an overpowering, loud rumble in the background. This becomes quite obvious at times and can depend upon environment or other factors. Male voices can also be difficult to hear at times when the "booming" is intense. It's not all the time but it does pop up often and only on KDNL. My guess is there is a either a boost in the extreme low end of the frequency spectrum or perhaps a subsonic, rumble filter needs to be engaged. Again, you will not hear this thru a TV but it drives my sub woofers crazy at times. So I am probably not alone.

Yea, I noticed that some time ago. I don't have a home theater system, but I've seen it on a 5.1 audio monitor i have. Unfortunately the audio processor is in Columbus where we are run from. I had them make some changes a year or so...need to look at again.
It's more difficult where I can't get my have on the processor. We also upconvert everything to 5.1 which I don't like, but with the automation systems, it makes switching cleaner.
Jim
post #12733 of 12968
Jim,

Actually, from what I can tell, the 5.1 upconvert seems to work just fine. Only the rumbling is a concern. In the past, some shows on 30 used to have a dead center channel, which made dialog sound very hollow. But I no longer notice that. But I'm sure if this has changed or if I'm just watching different shows. If yoiu're able to adjust the low frequencies, let me know and I'll verify it for you.
post #12734 of 12968
I know this isn't exactly HDTV-related, but it does involve local electronics in general....

What's the best place in the St. Louis area to have car speakers installed and uninstalled?

I have this pair of Pioneer 6x9's that I paid $200 for back in the late 80's. They're not your typical car speakers. They weigh about 8 pounds each! They've been with me through three different cars and still sound great. But the places I've had install/uninstall them in the past have all gone out of business. Now I don't know who to trust with the job of removing the factory speakers from my current car and installing these in their place.

Suggestions? Who's done a good job on this sort of thing for you lately?

Thanks!
post #12735 of 12968
What is the deal with KPTN ch 7 and The Cool TV? It looks like they are having major issues with the satellite box that they use to receive the cool tv. For a couple of days it was showing macro blocks, followed by an all black screen, followed by the message from the satellite box reading "Channel Not Available", and then color bars and now finally a white screen with the word "QTEST". Seriously do they not even try? Like would a message saying they are having technical difficulties etc. be that hard to do?
post #12736 of 12968
My guess is it's totally automated and no one is minding the store. Why do they bother sending out a signal then? Someone probably needs to go outside and wipe some snow off the dish. biggrin.gif
post #12737 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

My guess is it's totally automated and no one is minding the store. Why do they bother sending out a signal then? Someone probably needs to go outside and wipe some snow off the dish. biggrin.gif

When we had CoolTv it was delivered by cable modem to a dedicated server.
post #12738 of 12968
They now provide a feed on Ku satellite (Galaxy 19). The feed has been down for several days.

- Trip
post #12739 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post

They now provide a feed on Ku satellite (Galaxy 19). The feed has been down for several days.

- Trip

I was kidding about the snow! Who knew????
post #12740 of 12968
It looks like QVC is up on 7-3 now. So no more The Cool TV. I noticed that whatever was on 7-4 is also gone, replaced with color bars.
post #12741 of 12968
Wow it is sure quiet in here. I just stopped by to mention that when I turned on the TV tonight I noticed that KMOV is now showing the radar on channel 4-3.
post #12742 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike`L View Post

Wow it is sure quiet in here. I just stopped by to mention that when I turned on the TV tonight I noticed that KMOV is now showing the radar on channel 4-3.

I wonder if they turned it on for March Madness?
post #12743 of 12968
Maybe they figured out that the radar display is more useful to viewers and will get higher ratings than Livewell.
post #12744 of 12968
I refuse to tune into any 24x7 radar channel until it is in true HD with a Dolby 5.1 PING! biggrin.gif
post #12745 of 12968
Somehow my subscription to the St. Louis thread got deleted. I just thought there hadn't been any activity for a while. eek.gif Anyway, I have a few home theater items that I'm going to put on eBay, but I thought I'd mention them here first. I have a Denon 3808CI AVR and a Yamaha A3000 AVR, as well as a Panasonic AE4000 projector. I'd rather not go through the eBay hassle, so PM me if you think you might be interested. Everything is in excellent/perfect cosmetic and working condition and "clearance" priced. biggrin.gif
post #12746 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike`L View Post

Wow it is sure quiet in here. I just stopped by to mention that when I turned on the TV tonight I noticed that KMOV is now showing the radar on channel 4-3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linxs View Post

I wonder if they turned it on for March Madness?
I sure hope not. Is it just me or is the picture quality for these games atrocious OTA? Horribly pixellated.
post #12747 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by reuthermonkey View Post


I sure hope not. Is it just me or is the picture quality for these games atrocious OTA? Horribly pixellated.

That I couldn't tell you the only game I watched so far is Mizzou go home early again.



One thing having Hulu Plus is starting to sound better for me. Since we have such great stations. For one thing this past Wednesday KPLR still can't get this whole HD thing figured out and had Supernatural in SD. Then did you see that episode of Community last night. Well not here. KSDK went and did their usual preempt anything thats on at Thursday 7pm. This time it was special on Cardinals Glennon which already aired this past Saturday.
post #12748 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linxs View Post

........One thing having Hulu Plus is starting to sound better for me. Since we have such great stations. For one thing this past Wednesday KPLR still can't get this whole HD thing figured out and had Supernatural in SD. Then did you see that episode of Community last night. Well not here. KSDK went and did their usual preempt anything thats on at Thursday 7pm. This time it was special on Cardinals Glennon which already aired this past Saturday.

More reasons why the local network affiliates are now useless beyond weather alerts and occasionally some local news. I wish we could gain direct access to the network feeds, rather than rely on the locals to re-transmit while getting "creaitve" or just simply blowing it.
post #12749 of 12968
I' looking for an indoor OTA antenna for backup to Charter. I'm in Creve Coeur just West of 270 and south of Olive. I have a Panasonic 2012 UT tv and am currently using HDMI for the cable box, so currently won't need an A/B switch box for the main tv but might for the bedroom tv. I would prefer to have a decent antenna that will be close to the AV equipment which is on the main floor, close to a sliding door that is facing West, but we have a tree line 75 feet from the AV equipment if that makes a difference.

I would also like to know any bad experiences people have had on antennas that I should stay away from.

Thanks
post #12750 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by bd63141 View Post

I' looking for an indoor OTA antenna for backup to Charter. I'm in Creve Coeur just West of 270 and south of Olive. I have a Panasonic 2012 UT tv and am currently using HDMI for the cable box, so currently won't need an A/B switch box for the main tv but might for the bedroom tv. I would prefer to have a decent antenna that will be close to the AV equipment which is on the main floor, close to a sliding door that is facing West, but we have a tree line 75 feet from the AV equipment if that makes a difference.

I would also like to know any bad experiences people have had on antennas that I should stay away from.

Thanks

How lucky do you feel? I find that OTA reception can be hit and miss without an outdoor antenna. So I don't recommend indoor units unless you live in South County. I live in Creve Coeur and had to install mine on the roof to get reliable OTA service for all the primary locals (2,4,5,9,11,30). Try www.antennaweb.org for advice. You'll find that the signals generally will come from the Southeast. A good rule of thumb is: The higher you can place the the antenna the better. Use good cable with as few splitters as possible.
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