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St. Louis, MO - HDTV - Page 430

post #12871 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

My Dish Hopper OTA tuner was about 3.5-4 seconds out of sync with the video tonight on the CW. Anyone else experience this issue?

FOUR seconds???? That's off the charts. Did you happen to check a TV's OTA tuner to see if the issue was station related or Hopper related? It drives me nuts when the sync is off a fraction of a second.
post #12872 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

FOUR seconds???? That's off the charts. Did you happen to check a TV's OTA tuner to see if the issue was station related or Hopper related? It drives me nuts when the sync is off a fraction of a second.

I thought I'd recorded a CW show to the computer last night with an OTA tuner, but the timer didn't fire. I'll try again tonight.

I don't think I've ever seen lip sync this bad in any show, so I was curious if anyone else had seen it on the CW last night.
post #12873 of 12968
What is it that makes it so hard to keep audio and video in sync? Now that everything is transmitted digitally, are there no time codes embedded within that receivers can use to re-sync the streams?

Since audio is such relatively low bandwidth, it should also be no great trick for receiver manufacturers, who presumably know how long it takes in their set to process video, to delay the audio by an appropriate amount to keep them together.

Yet even programs on the same channel are out-of-sync by varying amounts.

Come on, guys, if it can be done on analog film.........................
post #12874 of 12968
I wonder the same thing. Perhaps it has something to do with analog to digital conversion? I say this because I find that when I play the same source thru multiple devices at the same time (say, thru the TV speakers and the Home Theater) I can clearly hear echoes resulting from different arrival times. This includes audio sources from the analog port, Optical port and HDMI----all three are different. This does not amount to a 4 second delay, but clearly many milliseconds of difference. While not always noticeable, it drives me crazy when I hear a door slam or a gunshot that is not even close to what's happening on the screen. I love to watch concerts. But when drummers and strummers are not in sync with the beat, I go nuts.
post #12875 of 12968
Quote:
Come on, guys, if it can be done on analog film.................

In that case, the audio track is physically on the film adjacent to the video frames.


We get folks calling in all the time blaming A/V sync issues on the antenna that they bought from us. We have to explain to them that the antenna cannot cause the issue and that it's most likely coming from the station.
Edited by ADTech - 1/9/14 at 1:00pm
post #12876 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post


.........We get folks calling in all the time blaming A/V sync issues on the antenna that they bought to us.........

I guess your antennas are simply too fast or too slow.

Perhaps they need speed ratings like tires. biggrin.gif
post #12877 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post

In that case, the audio track is physically on the film adjacent to the video frames.

So? There are so many codes embedded in the digital streams (I count 21 on one local OTA channel) , what keeps one from being used for A/V sync?

BTW, I believe the analog sound track on film was not adjacent to the frame with which it was associated.
post #12878 of 12968
I'd like to hear what you guys think of DirecTV,
how reliable is the signal?
programming & cost ?
DVR cost & all other info !



1st of all I'd like to Thank the folks who worker the U-Matter part of this Forum.
There were time you guys gave us all tips to straighten out problems without having to trouble Charters busy Tech for a Home visit..

Thanks U-Matter !! We'll all miss you!

On charters reception, are any of you getting FREEZE frames stumbling Video & Dropped or Garbled audio @ intermittent times ??

On pricing, my understanding was services were $29.95 for the 3 services each.
4 DVR service use was $20

It's hard to go on Charters site to see what lowest prices are.
As soon as type in your address & they know you have Charter , they won't let you see the prices for programming !!! mad.gif

My service shot up around $35 to $40 per month. That's a lot of money per year for a old fart on a fixed income.

I'm guessing Charter is pushing you to either pay more or go ahead & move to Dish or DirecTV

DirecTV has offer of $69.94 per month for over 205 channels , free Genie HD TVR upgrade, plus Internet w/ Wi-Fi & Phone service.

I hate changing over but that's what we've come to !
Like Russian Roulette !!wink.gif
post #12879 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post


BTW, I believe the analog sound track on film was not adjacent to the frame with which it was associated.

You are indeed correct as the audio has to be offset from its associated frame by the linear distance from the shutter to the magnetic head for the audio. I kind of over-simplified. wink.gif
post #12880 of 12968
And, the audio track must have constant linear motion, while the cinema frames must stop briefly behind the shutter.

All told, the analog world accomplished something the digital world has not caught up with.
post #12881 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post


.........BTW, I believe the analog sound track on film was not adjacent to the frame with which it was associated.

This is true. In the early 70's as a kid, I had a summer job setting up and projecting 16mm movies onto a screen for small groups. The film contained an optical track for the audio that was ahead (or possibly behind) the frame being displayed by XX frames. That's because the audio read head had to be located away from the extremely hot light source near the lens gate of the projector. A loop of a certain length had to be established to ensure proper sync. If I started the film with that loop too large or too small, the sync would suffer accordingly.

A poorly synced event still reminds me of that summer. mad.gif
post #12882 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

If I started the film with that loop too large or too small, the sync would suffer accordingly.
BUT there was also, on most projectors, a knob to lengthen or shorten that loop -- and once set, it held sync for the entire reel.

No need to watch the CNN host's lips continue to move after the sound stops coming from her mouth. My A/V receiver has an adjustable 0-200ms delay, but it changes every time the feed source changes, even on the same national channel.
post #12883 of 12968
Been a long time since I posted here, still going strong, now have both Genie with OTA and a DirecTV receiver with OTA that I have matrixed so I can see live OTA on any TV in the house.

However, the Genie and regular DirecTV DVRs handle the OTA channels different ways. I don't remember the specifics, but I think the Genie will actually scan while the regular DVRs depend on a database that supposedly has become too large for DirecTV to manage and update.

Bottom line, I can get KMOV-DT OTA on my Genie, but not on my regular DVR. I've tried putting in a couple of different zip codes and it doesn't help. Anybody here with a difference experience? It might be one of those things that it won't break until you do a re-scan, so it would be nice to know if anybody has any HR20 or HR24 series DVRs and you can get OTA KMOV with them or not. Then I'd have a leg to stand on if I complain to DirecTV. Thanks.

P.S. By the way, I'm not interested in going all in with Genie and use the slave boxes for it. My Genie is in the theater and completely separate from the rack where I have all my matrixed video. Why would I bother with Genie slaves when they cost the same per month as the DVRs?
Edited by turls - 1/10/14 at 10:54am
post #12884 of 12968
Only the HR20 contained the OTA tuner. HR21 and newer, including the Genie, requires the Am21 Off Air Tuner. My Genie/AM21 gets KMOV 4.1 just fine.
Quote:
but I think the Genie will actually scan

Used to, but not any more.
post #12885 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post

Only the HR20 contained the OTA tuner. HR21 and newer, including the Genie, requires the Am21 Off Air Tuner. My Genie/AM21 gets KMOV 4.1 just fine.
Used to, but not any more.

I didn't make myself clear. I had a HR20 with built-in OTA tuner that bit the dust. When they replaced it under the protection plan, I got them to throw in an AM21. So I have an AM21 on both the Genie and a regular DVR and they are not using the same database. You get KMOV-DT with Genie/AM21 but not with HR2X/AM21. If Genie doesn't mix a scan in their somewhere, why do I get different channels when entering the same primary and secondary zip codes on both setups?
post #12886 of 12968
I had my AM21 on an HR21 for a long time with it working correctly for KMOV 4.1. When my old HR 20 died back in September, it was replaced by a Genie and I moved the AM21 over to it.

I haven't noticed any difference in how the Genie/AM21 works now vs. how the HR21/AM 21 worked previously.
post #12887 of 12968
Must have been bad timing on my part, and a temporary glitch at DirecTV. Scan today works and I get KMOV-DT again. Sorry for the false alarm, I tried it a few weeks ago over a few days and never got KMOV-DT to come up.
post #12888 of 12968
So the Genie will work with the AM-21? I have a friend at work who recently switched to DirecTV and was p.o.'ed because the AM-21 didn't work with the newer Genie equipment? His wife wanted to receord stuff off AntennaTV and MeTV.
post #12889 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Simandl View Post

So the Genie will work with the AM-21? I have a friend at work who recently switched to DirecTV and was p.o.'ed because the AM-21 didn't work with the newer Genie equipment? His wife wanted to receord stuff off AntennaTV and MeTV.

Sure, it works fine.

Of course, if you ask anyone at Dirctv anything about antennas, they're about as useful as a rock. The guy who installed my Genie system said he'd been with Directv as an employe for seven years had never seen an AM21. I ended up telling him to move on and I'd do it myself later (which I did).

Now, not all the sub-channels are in the D* guide so some extra work is definitely needed to work around that.
post #12890 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post

Now, not all the sub-channels are in the D* guide so some extra work is definitely needed to work around that.

Can you elaborate on that? I didn't know there was any workaround to getting more sub-channels than they show. The only trick I know is trying different zip codes for primary and secondary.
post #12891 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADTech View Post

Sure, it works fine.

Of course, if you ask anyone at Dirctv anything about antennas, they're about as useful as a rock. The guy who installed my Genie system said he'd been with Directv as an employe for seven years had never seen an AM21. I ended up telling him to move on and I'd do it myself later (which I did).

Now, not all the sub-channels are in the D* guide so some extra work is definitely needed to work around that.

This same thing happened to me. They had NO IDEA what it was!

The work around is simple, but time consuming:

1. Enter your primary zip, and a secondary zip, as normal.
2. Repeat the inital set up, use your real zip as the primary (Always) and keep repeating the initial set up using zip codes that have missing channels that are in the database.

Example: I am missing 40-3 and 40-4. I added my home zip and Los Angeles zip and got 40-3 and 40-4 to show in my guide. The info is incorrect, but it's better than having nothing.

If you're missing channels, get a copy of the database at DBSTalk. With some research and luck, maybe you'll be able to find another subnet on the same PSIP number as what you're missing. You can do this to add a 3rd DMA, too, if needed. Good luck!
post #12892 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejb1980 View Post

The work around is simple, but time consuming:

1. Enter your primary zip, and a secondary zip, as normal.
2. Repeat the inital set up, use your real zip as the primary (Always) and keep repeating the initial set up using zip codes that have missing channels that are in the database.

Ok, but I think this is a non-starter for me because I really do get a 2nd DMA off the back side of my antenna (Springfield, IL). So I'm not going to sacrifice the 2nd DMA in my setup (with correct guide data) to maybe get some the subchannels I'm missing.

Does that sound right? Or am I confused and you really can keep adding channels ever time you repeat the initial setup without losing what you've done previously?

Thanks for the explanation though.
post #12893 of 12968
Anyone else notice that KTVI has lost their 5.1 audio feed sometime in the last few days? I missed the rear channel crowd noise in the NFC playoffs yesterday. It gives the telecast an "in stadium" feel. I've called the station several times but can't get a live person or anyone to return my voice mail messages. I've sent e-mails too.
post #12894 of 12968
Quote:
Originally Posted by turls View Post

Ok, but I think this is a non-starter for me because I really do get a 2nd DMA off the back side of my antenna (Springfield, IL). So I'm not going to sacrifice the 2nd DMA in my setup (with correct guide data) to maybe get some the subchannels I'm missing.

Does that sound right? Or am I confused and you really can keep adding channels ever time you repeat the initial setup without losing what you've done previously?

Thanks for the explanation though.

You can keep adding to it. The list only erases itself when the power is reset (power outage, RBR, etc). When you do the initial set up again, it will keep the data from the primary and secondary you added orginally and then add it it what you're missing. My home DMA is Greensboro NC. My secondary is Raleigh NC. I get a few from Roanoke VA. I added west-coast zips to fill in the missing subsets since none of my missing subchannels matched another affiliate on the same PSIP. I chose to add west-coast to make it easier to explain to company "channels that start with a K have wrong guide data" than to explain what an antenna is.

Edit: Of course, in St. Louis, the W/K thing is kinda pointless to implement...
post #12895 of 12968
Geez... Awfully quiet in here... I guess no one has noticed that 46.1 has switched over to the Ion network today. Wikipedia was updated to indicated that the deal to sell WRBU has completed and Ion networks is the new owner.
post #12896 of 12968
so who will pick up the "awesome" MyNetwork programming then? wink.gif
post #12897 of 12968
Did they upgrade to HD also and change the call sign? I tuned to it on directv but for some reason theirs a placecard saying theirs technical difficulties.
post #12898 of 12968
They haven't changed anything except the A/V content. Even the inline guide data is still for the previously scheduled WRBU programming. Still 480i, 4:3.
post #12899 of 12968
It's not that huge of a shift. I'm pretty sure that both the MyNetworkTV and Ion schedules mostly consist of Criminal Minds reruns anyway. wink.gif
post #12900 of 12968
Well, as of a few minutes ago, it looks like the shift is continuing to progress. Inline guide data is now correct for ION. "Burn Notice" until 2Am, then infomercials. Still 480i, 4:3.
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