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St. Louis, MO - HDTV - Page 315

post #9421 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

What kinds of connections are you using and what sort of TV?

I have a Samsung. Bought in 2005, I don't know the model number off the top of my head.

The computer is a basic Dell, purchased in 2003.

It has an input labeled "PC" as well as the usual HDMI and Component, S-video,etc...
post #9422 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

Not to dismiss your observation, Jebo, but the issue I'm reporting on Channel 30 is OTA and therefore clearly their fault. It's understandably duplicated on the Dish local as well.

(Jim, where are you? I hope all is well.)

I have been working on this issue and very irritated that it's not corrected yet! The HD delay feed comes from Columbus. The server is breaking up when recording at the same time it's playing out a delay feed for two different stations. The manufacturer says it should work, but it doesn't. If I was in Columbus it would be fixed! We will probably delay record it in St. Louis, but it will be SD only...better that break-up.
post #9423 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left Jeff View Post

I have a Samsung. Bought in 2005, I don't know the model number off the top of my head.

The computer is a basic Dell, purchased in 2003.

It has an input labeled "PC" as well as the usual HDMI and Component, S-video,etc...

This could be a little complicated - hard to say without knowing the specifics. However, it might be possible to add one of ATI's 4000 series Radeon cards to the computer. That would give you dual DVI outputs that could send both picture and sound to the TV via HDMI. Ordinarily, that's not possible with DVI, but the ATI card uses a proprietary adapter that converts DVI to HDMI with audio. A single HDMI cable from the computer to the Samsung would turn your computer into a HTPC. As I said, it could be more complicated than that, especially depending on the resolution of your computer monitor. My computer "monitor" is really a 32" Sharp 1080p TV that accepts a signal from the Octava matrix switcher I've been talking about. How simple it might be would depend on which resolutions your computer monitor and Samsung TV can accept.

You can always hook up an additional mouse and keyboard for the room with the Samsung. That can get a little sticky, too. Wireless won't always work over that distance, and running USB that far requires a USB hub or active USB extension cable. I use both to get the distance I need.
post #9424 of 12786
To answer the questions from lostinbloomsdale:

Yes, you are well within range. I know of a viewer in Farmington who was able to receive all channels. However, to do so, you will clearly need to replace that old "huge" antenna with a thankfully much smaller UHF antenna intended for fringe reception. Look for a high-gain or yagi on http://www.antennaweb.org. You'll also need to place it as high up as possible. If you're in a valley, this might be an issue.

Your inside wire should be fine as long as it's coax with good connectors and as few splitters as possible. If in doubt, run new cables. Point the antenna almost due North.
post #9425 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRacer View Post

I have been working on this issue and very irritated that it's not corrected yet! ......... If I was in Columbus it would be fixed! We will probably delay record it in St. Louis, but it will be SD only...better that break-up.

Noooooooo! Not SD! That will kill it for sure. Option 1 should be to broadcast it in real time. If the pinheads running the station won't let you do that for the sake of syndicated reruns, can't they at least get you your own "TiVO" device to delay the event in HD? C'Mon, the HD "leader" has been dong that for years and is almost at the point of getting it right.

Transmitting it in SD is like purgatory. I for one, won't even bother to capture it for time-shifting.....even though I enjoy the show.

(Rant off)
post #9426 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

Noooooooo! Not SD! can't they at least get you your own "TiVO" device to delay the event in HD? C'Mon, the HD "leader" has been dong that for years and is almost at the point of getting it right.

Jim, could you talk about the kind of equipment that's required for a station to integrate recording and playback into a professional station? I've worked with pro gear, so I know how expensive it can be. It also has to communicate with other studio gear in a way that the average consumer doesn't have to worry about.

We consumers are used to HDMI, DVI or component video for carrying signals, but the pro gear can be quite different. Also, the control systems must be much costlier.

I realize most people could care less about such things, but those of us who post here probably would. Any chance we could get a tour of your facilities one of these days? Some years back, we did a tour of Ch. 11. It was before I got to know a lot of the people who post here regularly, even though I think I remember a few of them there. I think I recall your being there, too, but I could be wrong.
post #9427 of 12786
Thank you! The current antenna mount is on about a 10 foot pole mounted to the double fireplace chimney on our two story home that sits on a hill. There is, however another hill that sits to the northeast...Well I can only try! Any other suggestions?

Should I use a pre-amp?

Is there anyone in the area (to trust) that does installs? My husband keeps telling me we should just pay someone to come out and take care of it, but I like to know how things work, and sometimes that means doing it myself.

Thank you again for your time.
post #9428 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinbloomsdale View Post

I live in Bloomsdale MO (54 miles south of St Louis). We want to switch from Satellite to OTA. I have nothing but a very basic knowledge of electronics. We have several televisions including new 46" sony flatscreen. We also have 4 other tv's, but we'll deal with those issues later...one step at a time.

My initial problem is this: Based on our latitude and longitude and a 40 foot (rough guesstimate) placement of an antenna, antennaweb.org says that no digital channels will be available. Based on the exact same input, tvfool.com says there WILL in fact be digital channels available.

#1 Which to believe?

#2 What antennae TO PURCHASE? (We have an old, huge antenna on the roof already that we've never used, but recent storm damage ripped pieces of it off. The boom is still intact.)

#3 Can I use the cables that are running through the house for the Satellite, for the OTA? These cables were run completely new 4 years ago by a professional when we moved into the home.

#4 Is there anyone in my area that helps/installs OTA?

Thank you for your feedback.

Add the link for your TVfool analysis. Without it, we can only guess since we don't know the particulars of the last mile or two that the signal has to travel to your location.

Based solely on your zipcode, it's easily done with a good UHF antenna and a good preamp. However, that last mile or so can make or break medium to long range reception.
post #9429 of 12786
I have a 5" battery/AC operated B&W TV with AM/FM. It has an antenna connection in the back. It also has a UHF switch. I bought a female coupler at Radio Shack so I could add another cable from my roof top antenna to the TV in case of a power outage. The cable I use now is a short run. I want to be able to put the TV on the other side of the room on my coffee table.

The guy said I would still need a converter after the DTV change. Is this true? If all the locals move to UHF shouldn't I be able to pull OTA via the UHF like any other older TV with UHF rabbit ears? I currently get PBS & Ch 11 and a couple of more. Is the RS guy an idiot or am I missing something here?

Even though D* moved to MPEG-4 locals, I still have my OTA channels that are more resistant to rain fade during bad weather.
post #9430 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinbloomsdale View Post

Thank you! The current antenna mount is on about a 10 foot pole mounted to the double fireplace chimney on our two story home that sits on a hill. There is, however another hill that sits to the northeast...Well I can only try! Any other suggestions?

Should I use a pre-amp?

Is there anyone in the area (to trust) that does installs? My husband keeps telling me we should just pay someone to come out and take care of it, but I like to know how things work, and sometimes that means doing it myself.

Thank you again for your time.

It sounds like your chances for success are high. An amplifier can't hurt, but you must first have a signal to pick up. I don't think the hill to the NE should be much of a problem, but you won't know if you don't try.
post #9431 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoInSTL View Post

I have a 5" battery/AC operated B&W TV with AM/FM. It has an antenna connection in the back. It also has a UHF switch. I bought a female coupler at Radio Shack so I could add another cable from my roof top antenna to the TV in case of a power outage. The cable I use now is a short run. I want to be able to put the TV on the other side of the room on my coffee table.

The guy said I would still need a converter after the DTV change. Is this true? If all the locals move to UHF shouldn't I be able to pull OTA via the UHF like any other older TV with UHF rabbit ears? I currently get PBS & Ch 11 and a couple of more. Is the RS guy an idiot or am I missing something here?

Even though D* moved to MPEG-4 locals, I still have my OTA channels that are more resistant to rain fade during bad weather.

No. It will not work without a converter. Although the frequency of the DTV channels are in the same UHF location the TV currently receives, the method of transmission is a radical shift from NTSC (analog) to ATSC (digital). These methods have nothing in common and your small TV won't even "see" the DTV channels.

Keep in mind the converter will also require power during an outage. I suggest you wait until the transition. ATSC portables should eventually appear. Probably quite pricey at first but eventually $.99 with the purchase of a Big Mac with Fries and a Coke.
post #9432 of 12786
Thanks for the clarification. So an older TV that uses UHF rabbit ears also needs a converter box? Both of my regular sets are hooked up to D* so I have not looked into this at all. I only half paid attention to the PSAs about it but I did think a UHF would solve it. Guess not.
post #9433 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

No. It will not work without a converter. Although the frequency of the DTV channels are in the same UHF location the TV currently receives, the method of transmission is a radical shift from NTSC (analog) to ATSC (digital). These methods have nothing in common and your small TV won't even "see" the DTV channels.

Keep in mind the converter will also require power during an outage. I suggest you wait until the transition. ATSC portables should eventually appear. Probably quite pricey at first but eventually $.99 with the purchase of a Big Mac with Fries and a Coke.

You may want to look at this thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...640&highlight= that I posted to earlier. I still have not run it until the battery is depleted but using for some time on battery has been fine.

CVS's web site still lists it and on sale at $103.99 reduced from $129.99. As mentioned in the other thread, I purchased during an introductory sale with CVS "Extra Care Card" @ $99 and my cost was reduced slightly more by using a credit card that gives me points for purchases that can eventually be turned into cash back. My local store no longer has any in stock; but I am in a small town and not sure if that is the case everywhere. I understand that Radio Shack also carries one under a different brand name at an even higher price but I haven't checked there in a while since I don't need another!

Jane B.
post #9434 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostinbloomsdale View Post

I live in Bloomsdale MO (54 miles south of St Louis). We want to switch from Satellite to OTA. I have nothing but a very basic knowledge of electronics. We have several televisions including new 46" sony flatscreen. We also have 4 other tv's, but we'll deal with those issues later...one step at a time.

My initial problem is this: Based on our latitude and longitude and a 40 foot (rough guesstimate) placement of an antenna, antennaweb.org says that no digital channels will be available. Based on the exact same input, tvfool.com says there WILL in fact be digital channels available.

To get an accurate estimate of which channels you can receive, make sure you do the analysis for an exact location (address or coordinates). The area around Bloomsdale has many terrain obstructions, so depending on your location (which side of a hill you're on) and height, there can be a big difference in the amount of signal available.



Best regards,
Andy
LL
post #9435 of 12786
Thanks for the links. I may look into getting a digital tuner my Dell Mini 9 netbook. Not sure yet. I have another month to figure it out
post #9436 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

Noooooooo! Not SD! That will kill it for sure. Option 1 should be to broadcast it in real time. If the pinheads running the station won't let you do that for the sake of syndicated reruns, can't they at least get you your own "TiVO" device to delay the event in HD? C'Mon, the HD "leader" has been dong that for years and is almost at the point of getting it right.

Transmitting it in SD is like purgatory. I for one, won't even bother to capture it for time-shifting.....even though I enjoy the show.

(Rant off)

Ok...Ok We'll only go to SD if there's a meltdown. They've made more changes in the server config for tonight. If it doesn't work tonight it may be SD next week until it's fixed...can't keep experimenting on air!
Jim
post #9437 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Jim, could you talk about the kind of equipment that's required for a station to integrate recording and playback into a professional station? I've worked with pro gear, so I know how expensive it can be. It also has to communicate with other studio gear in a way that the average consumer doesn't have to worry about.

We consumers are used to HDMI, DVI or component video for carrying signals, but the pro gear can be quite different. Also, the control systems must be much costlier.

I realize most people could care less about such things, but those of us who post here probably would. Any chance we could get a tour of your facilities one of these days? Some years back, we did a tour of Ch. 11. It was before I got to know a lot of the people who post here regularly, even though I think I remember a few of them there. I think I recall your being there, too, but I could be wrong.

I'd be more than happy to show you the station and yes I was at the ch. 11 meeting. However, there's not much to see at the studio since all the servers etc are in Columbus. You might find the transmitter interesting. The HD equipment we installed was over 1 1/5 million dollars! Quite a bit different than a home system. We run 5 stations from one control room... all running on redundant servers and a complicated automation system. Also, all commercials and programs need to be ingested from different sources and different file formats. Another problem is that no one manufacturer makes all the equipment necessary...getting one companies software to talk to other software and preserve lipsync and closed captioning is a challenge...a lot of finger pointing.
post #9438 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by moman19 View Post

Noooooooo! Not SD! That will kill it for sure. Option 1 should be to broadcast it in real time. If the pinheads running the station won't let you do that for the sake of syndicated reruns, can't they at least get you your own "TiVO" device to delay the event in HD? C'Mon, the HD "leader" has been dong that for years and is almost at the point of getting it right.

Transmitting it in SD is like purgatory. I for one, won't even bother to capture it for time-shifting.....even though I enjoy the show.

(Rant off)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRacer View Post

Ok...Ok We'll only go to SD if there's a meltdown. They've made more changes in the server config for tonight. If it doesn't work tonight it may be SD next week until it's fixed...can't keep experimenting on air!
Jim

I can't get over the people that are soooo upset about SD rather than HD! I am just so glad to not have to get my antenna rotated just so to get KDNL at all (and not always successful after doing so) as i did when the broadcasts were only in analog. I suggest they try getting the analog version out in the neighborhood of where US Routes 51 & 161 cross even with a 30' antenna, rotor, and pre-amp!
Jane B.
post #9439 of 12786
Here's my emergency TV.

The TV sits atop a Wingard RCDT09A which is coupon eligible and battery operable when you buy the optional battery holder or use an external 9V adaptor.

As pictured, the TV and converter are being powered by a 12V battery pack.
If you have 15 D-cells laying around you can populate the battery trays shown on the right.

As Jane points out, the availability of portable ATSC LCD sets is much better now but this is an option to keep an old portable out of a landfill.

post #9440 of 12786
davesalaman
The problem with the old ones for some of us was the lack of closed captioning. I had been looking for a very long time and not finding battery operated TVs that support closed captioning. Also, yours is the first report that I have seen of a converter box that has a built in provision for battery operation. Another thing that just occurred to me is; does the converter provide closed captioning to a TV that does not have closed captioning when used alone?

Jane B.
post #9441 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRacer View Post

I'd be more than happy to show you the station and yes I was at the ch. 11 meeting. However, there's not much to see at the studio since all the servers etc are in Columbus. You might find the transmitter interesting. The HD equipment we installed was over 1 1/5 million dollars! Quite a bit different than a home system. We run 5 stations from one control room... all running on redundant servers and a complicated automation system. Also, all commercials and programs need to be ingested from different sources and different file formats. Another problem is that no one manufacturer makes all the equipment necessary...getting one companies software to talk to other software and preserve lipsync and closed captioning is a challenge...a lot of finger pointing.

I'm going to take you up on that, Jim. Could you PM me with some times you might be able to give me a tour? No hurry - I know you're a busy guy.

It's amazing how expensive pro gear is. Just before I left the university, they spent a boatload of money upgrading the TV studio. My biggest regret about that was that even doing an SD upgrade was really high. HD just wasn't going to happen, and unfortunately the purchases meant that they weren't going to consider upgrading again for years. I tried to steer them toward upgrading those things that would translate to an HD studio and not waste too much money on SD - audio, lighting, prompter, anything that would integrate seamlessly into an HD studio. We got an HD-upgradeable switcher and CG, as well as HD monitors wherever possible. The costs add up very quickly.
post #9442 of 12786
Yes, the CC comes from the converter, and this converter supports CC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane B. View Post

davesalaman
The problem with the old ones for some of us was the lack of closed captioning. I had been looking for a very long time and not finding battery operated TVs that support closed captioning. Also, yours is the first report that I have seen of a converter box that has a built in provision for battery operation. Another thing that just occurred to me is; does the converter provide closed captioning to a TV that does not have closed captioning when used alone?

Jane B.
post #9443 of 12786
This afternoon (05-09-09) while watching golf got a crawl along the bottom of the screen that tomorrow's broadcast is being switched to WRBU (whoever in the world that is!). Looked it up; and KSDK which I can get fine in Centralia, IL (with 30' tower, amp, and rotor) is shown as 65.6 miles away and WRBU is shown as 74.6 miles away and in a slightly different direction. If they are going to carry Cardinal games ONE weekend day why couldn't it be Saturday so that the HALF of the golf that they are showing could be on the day that includes the conclusion. I, for one, would really prefer to see the day that we find out who wins.

Thanks for reading my rant.
Jane B.
post #9444 of 12786
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane B. View Post

This afternoon (05-09-09) while watching golf got a crawl along the bottom of the screen that tomorrow's broadcast is being switched to WRBU (whoever in the world that is!). Looked it up; and KSDK which I can get fine in Centralia, IL (with 30' tower, amp, and rotor) is shown as 65.6 miles away and WRBU is shown as 74.6 miles away and in a slightly different direction. If they are going to carry Cardinal games ONE weekend day why couldn't it be Saturday so that the HALF of the golf that they are showing could be on the day that includes the conclusion. I, for one, would really prefer to see the day that we find out who wins.

If you have a rant about kSDk, you should know that you're going to be standing in a VERY LONG line.

But kSDk aside, the root of the problem here is that there's a built-in incompatibility with a major network affiliate handling local sports broadcasts, particularly for baseball, basketball and hockey, due to the large number of games and resulting pre-emptions of network-originated programming. No doubt there's a strong and attractive financial incentive for the local station to present Cardinal baseball broadcasts, but it inevitably results in unhappy local viewers who don't care about the local sports team and equally unhappy networks executives who lose out a chunk of their national audience.

This largely explains why local sports broadcasts on network affiliates are nowadays pretty much limited to the weekend, as that approach at least avoids stepping on the toes of the most lucrative portion of the network's prime-time programming. FWIW, this is a major departure from the 1960s and 1970s, when the 50 or so Cardinal baseball broadcasts were all on NBC affiliate kSDk, resulting in repeated pre-emptions of local network programming.

Anyway, the local sports advertising jackpot is the reason that golf gets trumped by Cardinal baseball this weekend -- there's a lot more local advertising dollars to be reaped from Cardinal baseball than a golf tournament with relatively limited local appeal.

But it does get worse. My guess, based on your location, is that you're unlikely to receive WRBU at all. Many households in the immediate St. Louis area have difficulty receiving this station, though that tends to be a bigger problem with the digital signal rather than the soon-to-be-defunct analog signal. I hope I'm wrong and you're not completely shut out.

WRBU is a second-rate operation in every possible way, and I'd suggest that rather than blaming them, which is pointless as they simply don't have the finances to even pretend to be a legitimate TV station, you'd be better off lobbying kSDk to make alternative carriage arrangements with some other station in future. But be warned that kSDk is not known for its attentiveness to viewer feedback.

But thanks for your rant -- there's nothing better for me than having a chance to slam my two least favorite local broadcasters in a single post. Almost feels like I've done a day's work here...
post #9445 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRacer View Post

Ok...Ok We'll only go to SD if there's a meltdown. They've made more changes in the server config for tonight. If it doesn't work tonight it may be SD next week until it's fixed...can't keep experimenting on air!
Jim

Jim,

I finally had time to sit down and view last night's Jimmy Kimmel show. The results of the server changes were very positive. Other than some slight video noise early in the show that appeared as occasional small black streaks with with some brief audio garbling, the quality was quite good and the program lasted the full hour in HD without reverting to SD. There were no video freezes no loud buzzes. I can surely live with this.

Great work. Keep it up.
post #9446 of 12786
Thread Starter 
"Chuck" comes in second (a distant second) in voting to determine which "on the bubble" TV series was most deserving of renewal. "Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronicles" was named by over 50% of voters.

From Celebrity News Service (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015060228):
____________________________________________________________ ____

Los Angeles: CA (CNS) - The fans have spoken. Out of all the shows currently on the fence for the Fall 2009 season, they want 'Terminator" to be back. Save One Show, a poll conducted by E! each year, asks television fans what's their pick for the show in danger of cancellation which needs to be saved. After 300,000 votes, "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" led the pack with 53% of the vote.

The runner-up, NBC's "Chuck" was a far second with 25%. "Dollhouse" followed with 10%, while "Life" earned 8% and "Privileged" another 4%. Previous winners of the Save One Show poll include Angel, One Tree Hill, and Veronica Mars.
____________________________________________________________ ____
post #9447 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jane B. View Post

This afternoon (05-09-09) while watching golf got a crawl along the bottom of the screen that tomorrow's broadcast is being switched to WRBU (whoever in the world that is!). Looked it up; and KSDK which I can get fine in Centralia, IL (with 30' tower, amp, and rotor) is shown as 65.6 miles away and WRBU is shown as 74.6 miles away and in a slightly different direction. If they are going to carry Cardinal games ONE weekend day why couldn't it be Saturday so that the HALF of the golf that they are showing could be on the day that includes the conclusion. I, for one, would really prefer to see the day that we find out who wins.

Thanks for reading my rant.
Jane B.

As a DirecTv customer I get 46 in SD over the satellite, but in preparation for today's final round of golf on 46, I got an OTA antenna so I could watch in HD. Well, 1:00 came and went and much to my dismay all they had to show me on 46-1 was low def golf. It was in HD yesterday on 5-1. What is the problem today? We can't figure how to get the HD feed over to 46? Give me a break. If you are gonna sell out to show some baseball, at least make a real effort to support the fans of other sports while you are at it.
post #9448 of 12786
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroptheRemote View Post

"Chuck" comes in second (a distant second) in voting to determine which "on the bubble" TV series was most deserving of renewal. "Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronicles" was named by over 50% of voters.

From Celebrity News Service (http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7015060228):
____________________________________________________________ ____

Los Angeles: CA (CNS) - The fans have spoken. Out of all the shows currently on the fence for the Fall 2009 season, they want 'Terminator" to be back. Save One Show, a poll conducted by E! each year, asks television fans what's their pick for the show in danger of cancellation which needs to be saved. After 300,000 votes, "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" led the pack with 53% of the vote.

The runner-up, NBC's "Chuck" was a far second with 25%. "Dollhouse" followed with 10%, while "Life" earned 8% and "Privileged" another 4%. Previous winners of the Save One Show poll include Angel, One Tree Hill, and Veronica Mars.
____________________________________________________________ ____

Depends on which poll you read, who conducted it and when. A poll I read had Chuck ranking first among on-the-bubble shows. We're supposed to know its fate by May 19. I'm trying not to think about it until then.
post #9449 of 12786
Bob, Adrian and I saw the new Star Trek film this afternoon. You'll probably enjoy it more if you're a Trek fan, but I think it'll play well for a broad audience (though non-Trekkers won't understand some of the laughter). First rate movie by J. J. Abrams!

I'm trying to remember if all the debris we saw during the movie was typical of most films from the past, or if I'm just seeing it so much now because I'm used to not seeing any at all with digital projection.
post #9450 of 12786
I suspect it's hardcore Trek fans that'll hate it most. I know I did.

- Trip
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