San Francisco, CA - Comcast - Page 5

I assume that every Comcast digital customer in the Bay Area got that "we're getting rid of InDemand 4 through 7 as of 1/31" message?

Pardon me for asking, but is there a specific reason for this move, or is it just something like "we could use the extra bandwidth, and pretty much everybody has already seen the movies on InD4 through InD7 anyway"?

-- Don

I haven't seen the message about in demand 4-7, but I don't have a way to receive messages like that. It'd free up just about enough space for an extra HD channel. They want people to use On Demand for PPV anyway.

i couldn't be happier the PPV channels are going away. it only hogged up valuable bandwidth and was of no value to me.

Anyone know what the QAM channel for INHD is in the east bay?

That assumes that everyone gets InDemand which the 550 MHz areas do not get, yet. I doubt that it's about bandwidth but more likely to get rid of redundant channels or shifting of channels around or shifting them to different areas.

Laters,
Mikef5

INHD is encrypted so knowing the QAM channel wouldn't help you view it, sorry.

Laters,
Mikef5

Thanks a bunch. Anyone have a current QAM channel list?

It varies from locality to locality and within locality it can change from day to day. So it's not practical to have a list. CableCards are designed to map the channels to the same numbers that a Comcast box, so if your QAM tuner will take CableCard that would be best.

If you're looking for the channels that are in the clear, it would help to know what area you are in. I'm in the Milpitas area and I could tell you what they are for this area, they are different in different areas.

Laters,
Mikef5

Wow, the channel numbering hasn't changed in months in my area, maybe because there's nothing to change around in the 550 MHz areas

Laters,
Mikef5

That seems to be the norm in 550 areas, no room to move channels around, it seems like mine have been the same for years.

Good thing is this is going to change soon for some, later for others but in the end we'll all have the same channels for them to move around

Laters,
Mikef5

Keenan,

Did you hear that the launch of the new satellites for D*'s new HD is going to be delayed ?? Rocket blew up on the launch pad, not D*'s sat but a sat for an other country. This will prevent D* from launching all those promised HD channels. Someone said they saw Charlie Egan speeding away in a speed boat after the explosion ...

Laters,
Mikef5

Yeah that makes no sense at all. "Average cost to rent box = $7/mo" ?? What? Average cost of digital cable = $70/mo... only $7 of that is the box, wouldn't you say that cost is actually fairly trivial?

Also, I have a strong feeling that forcing cablecos to include CableCards in their own boxes will do nothing but INcrease the price - since it will increase the cost significantly, and they will simply pass that cost along to the consumer (and rightly so). I really don't see what the point of that legislation is.

Or rather, I see the "point" - sort of... I just don't think it will actually achieve the goals it sets out to.

If Comcast is required to use CableCards in their own boxes, they have an incentive to make sure the cards work and to make sure their people know how to support them. Right now, they have absolutely no incentive to do either.

But is that really a problem now? I know there were issues with the CableCARDs in the past but from what I've been reading it seems like most of the issues have been ironed out. I'm with walk in that this will probably just add to our already high bill. It seems like this is just the FCC punishing the MSO's for taking so long to implement this (which I'm all for...as long as it doesn't cost me more).

That is the public line from the MSOs to drum up public support for their position.

Regarding cost:
1) First STB is free with your package. Second STB/DVR is where you see the #s start piling up. $7 for STB "outlet fee", $7 for HD option, $12 for DVR.
2) When you are locked into a single vendor, that vendor will be able to charge tremendous margin. When someone says the price will increase, they cannot honestly say that without knowing what margin is built into the current Motorola box pricing, as well as what margin overseas manufacturers would be willing to build these boxes for, *if* there was a market for CableCARD devices.
3) For example, does the inclusion of Close Captioning decoding in every TV really increase the cost, or does the volume make the increase inconsequential? Does the inclusion of a PCMCIA port on a laptop really add that much cost? CableCARD is a freaking PCMCIA port. All the support chips and functionality are already designed and tested. It can only get cheaper with volume and competition, but you won't get competition unless there is a market.

Regarding features:
w/o a market for CableCARD it will be a long time before people are willing to enter this game with innovative products. Why put something out if it is going to be killed by the MSO? If TiVo S3 fails that will be a big sign for other innovative designers to stay away from building cable products. It could 2-4 years before anyone is brave enough to try developing on some of the newer platforms. If you are happy with the functionality of the 6412/3412 then you really don't care about this issue, but some of us are used to far superior functionality so we want there to be choices.

Look, the bottom line is the cable company is going to raise your prices regardless of CableCARD. You already saw it on your Jan bill. Those price increases are not just for programming. You are subsidizing other projects like VOD, VOIP, etc. If you are going to pay the price increases regardless, you might as well get some choice in hardware and the potential for new and innovative products in return.

I'm in Fremont, thanks!

Comcast says they are going to be rolling out SDV in 2007 so I would say yes, it is absolutely a problem, especially for TiVo S3 and all those CableCARD TVs that have already been sold.

At least with TiVo S3 it has a USB port so theoretically it could piggyback on some DOCSIS solution that might be used in the CableCARD STBs.

I think your CableCARD TVs are SOL if you care about the channels that go on SDV.

I see your point. But is the FCC saying whether or not MSO's will be required to continue to support CablCARDs once they implement a software-based encryption scheme? If not then, yes, it looks like current S3 Tivo's users would be on the path to being screwed (unless of course Tivo could somehow provide support for OCAP or some other software-based encryption via a firmware update).

Go read some of the threads about S3s and cable cards on TiVo Community and you'll see it is a problem in a lot of places. Around here its not too bad though.

I apologize in advanced for a question that has absolutely nothing to do with Comcast, HDTV, or anything A/V.

I'm starting a new job tomorrow and I need to go to the company HQ in Palo Alto for the day. Living in the Walnut Creek area, I'm trying to find the best way down. Google and MapQuest want me to take 680 all the way down to the 237, cross over and go north on the 101. That seems way out of the way. I will be 2 other people so I will be able to use the HOV lanes. Any advise from those commuters out there?

Thanks!

This is the way I look at it.

Mandate is July 07. CableCARD 1.0 is the only external encryption they have working right now that is deployed.

That means the July 07 mandate, if it stands, will force CableCARD 1.0 STB solutions for all new STBs until such time as there is some other solution.

What that means is the install base for CableCARD 1.0 will drastically increase, forcing the support of CableCARD 1.0 based STBs to be an issue the MSO cares about rather than something that early adopters have to deal with.

Assuming the MSO is forward looking and realizes they are planning on SDV and they are going to be deploying lots of CableCARD 1.0 STBs starting July, they will come up with a solution for the CableCARD SDVs to use CableCARD 1.0 and through some secondary means handle the SDV switching. That "other" solution is rumored to be some DOCSIS-based solution.

TiVo S3 is based on Linux and has a USB port. That gives it some flexibility in handling these "other" solutions because there is expansion capability as well as full fledged OS platform. Now whether something like that would make financial sense is a complete different question, but at least if the mandate goes through, the MSO will be building a solution for their own STBs and this isn't offloaded as a problem just for TiVo to figure out. If the latter case happened, I think TiVo S3 is just dead for lots of people using cable.

Now if TiVo S3 is dead, that will make lots of CE industry innovators take a long pause before building any advanced cable devices because they saw what happened before.

Eventually they will come back and be enticed to build products, but that could be a long time.

Think about how long digital cable has been around and how long it took to get QAM STBs into homes. One big reason is there simply is no market for 3rd-party STBs because of the captive market Motorola and SA have due to proprietary access control.

If there is no market, nobody will build, and you will be stuck with what is provided, whether you like it or not. Next time someone posts a grumble about 6412/3412, they should just kick themselves for not supporting the creation of a market for third-party products that would give them a choice of equipment if they didn't like the one they were provided.

There is some truth that some of the newer designs are a better fit, but there is also truth that the longer you wait and the farther you get from CC 1.0, the more you are killing the market. People just need to decide what is more important to them.

I think the "pass on the cost to users" excuse is a total red herring. The cable company always passes the cost onto the users and many times it is for stuff you could care less about, but are part of the MSOs future expansion. How much do you think you have subsidized VOD and VOIP over the years? How many of you actually use them? All the "free" content on VOD cost Comcast money. One would be naive to think that content didn't result in increased cable rates.

At least with CableCARD you are creating a market where competition could bring down STB/PVR costs and innovation could provide better products.

If OCAP was here today and TiVo S3 was using it today, I think there would be little argument whether OCAP is a better technical solution than CC1.0. The problem is CC1.0 is the only thing you have deployed. How long do you want to continue waiting while the 3rd party innovaters die off like the dinosaurs? The mandate has already been delayed twice because of the promise of something better just around the corner. TiVo had a CableCARD solution demonstrated at CES *2 years* ago. They apparently gave up waiting for this "new" solution just around the corner and released what they had.

Let's say that you'll be working for Comcast to improve the HDTV services in the South Bay. The alternative is to take Dumbarton, but that will cost you a few extra dollars, and the route may be longer than via 237.

I would probably take the 680 route even though it is probably longer distance than the 580/880/dumbarton route because 580 west is a mess in the morning and 580 east is a mess in the afternoon.

Thanks, guys. I'll go the 237 route and give myself some extra time just in case. Thanks!

Comcast's boxes - from Motorola
The CableCard - from Motorola

Of course they'll work - engineer those two things to work together and there's no issue. It's all those other interpretations of CableCard that will (still?) suffer.

Tech's will tell ya, some TVs are a piece of cake to get a CCard to work on. Others totally stink. Help me understand who's fault it is?

Hmmm - 237, Great America Pkwy, Bowers, turn right at JITB, round the corner is the Comcast office

Here's how I'd go: I'd take 680S to the 84 West exit in Sunol to Niles Canyon Rd. Then follow the 84 west signs to the Dumbarton bridge and take that over the bay to Palo Alto.

Hahaha. I can tell you with great certainty that Comcast is not my new employer. But if they were, you'd be the first to know.