San Francisco, CA - Comcast - Page 468

FYI, in regard to past comments on this thread:
A Comcast truck was here for a drop move this past Friday. The technician removed three filters from the pole across the street and pulled in new drop wire. I gained seven channels on my QAM tuner (Sony) TV. I am subscribed to limited basic service and have no other charges on my bill. The technician acknowledged that I should be getting all the limited basic channels in digital (with a QAM tuner).

OT, but interesting:
I had the contractor install a weatherhead in the new garage for Telco and CATV to avoid holes in the new garage siding. Initially, the technician resisted saying that they don't use weatherheads any more but just attach to the soffet and put a hole in the wall. When I frowned at that, he spent the extra time to use the weatherhead and was real nice about it.

Dishrich, I've been into television technology since the 1950s. I have a HD HomeRun box and regularly scan channels coming in off Comcast and even the channel map. We've had discussions here about how they're moving around channels. What I was saying that if they even grouped all the broadcast HD channels in one channel range that would take a truck rollout if they wanted to block HD if they charged an extra fee.

I wouldn't know because I've always had a digital subscription with Comcast usually including at least one Premium channel. Exception was the brief period that they took over my area before the rebuild and I had Dish Network and used Comcast limited basic for the locals. When I needed a package change to get channels like Sci-fi they had to take the filter off the line because I didn't subscribe to extended basic but did get Sci-fi on my SD digital package. And THAT took them two hours to sort out because the techs seemed afraid to contact the head end who finally straighted it out as I told them from the beginning they would.

From what I've been reading as far as consumer electronics go people are getting rid of their old SD sets for HD sets particularly at the prices nowadays. Often it is far less than they paid for that old 27". From what I've read in trends is that the SD market is becoming more and more a minority. So see, I don't base my observations on this forum at all.

I would certainly agree that broadcast HD should be Open QAM and remain so by law and no additional fee. It would be available by antenna if you could get it. And yes in my scan I would see or used to see an encrypted channel sharing a channel with a broadcast channel. In my area I believe KPIX used to be on the same channel as Showtime, the latter of course encrypted.

All I was asking was if anyone dropped down to nothing but limited basic did they lose their HD channels which I believe by law they shouldn't nor if they are just cable to HD set and no Comcast STB should not be charged an HD fee.

No, they would not lose their local broadcast HD channels.

No, they would not be charged an "HD tech fee" and they would still be able to receive those local HD channels in-the-clear with a personally owned QAM tuning device(TiVo, QAM tuner TV/HDHomeRun, etc). No Comcast equipment is needed to receive local HD channels, other than the cable line itself coming into the building.

OK, & me since the early 70's - & it's now 2011...
I've been doing antenna, cable, satellite & SMATV work since I was a teenager (if we're going to compare resumes...)

(OK, before I go on - I preface this by saying I assume that your area NO longer has analog expanded basic cable, correct?
If you still DO have it, then what I am saying about traps would NOT apply then...)


(assuming you guys no longer have analog expanded basic cable)
Sorry, but they would then simply encypt those said channels - GUARANTEE you 200%. CC is NO longer blocking channels via trapping for anything above limited basic - which if CC choose to encrypt OTA HD, would then make it NO longer limited basic, no? (since it would cost above the limited basic service)


Well and that makes sense, since I assume you only had limited basic back then. Of course they had to take your limited basic trap off so that you could get the rest of your channels. BUT what I'm trying to tell you is, CC is NO longer putting traps "back on" for subs that down downgrade to limited basic service. And that is because there is NO need for them to do so now - why DO you think they encrypted EVERYTHING above limited basic cable now? While I'm sure CC will NOT be going around removing ALL expanded basic traps from limited subs lines, they WILL have to keep making house calls to remove them every time a limited sub upgrades service. (like you did) But, they are NO longer using them for new (limited only) subs or f/downgrades to limited service.

On some systems, when the DTA's first came out, the (digital) expanded basic channels WERE in the clear. Once the FCC gave CC permission to use encryption on the DTA's, (actually it's "privacy mode", but it accomplishes the same thing) all those digital expanded basic channels were NO longer available on clear QAM TV's. So there is NO reason now for CC to have to use traps on limited subs...which is EXACTLY what CC was/is planning on doing all along. They wanted to get away from traps altogether because:
- requires truck rolls to add/remove
- traps can "disappear", or "get lost" from subs that should have them; not needing traps will reduce piracy of expanded basic cable for limited basic or modem-only subs (go over to dslreports & get a load of all the posts of all the "pirates" crying about loosing their "free" expanded (analog) basic channels when their area went WOM )

(again, if your area still has analog expanded basic service, then this would NOT apply, of course)

FYI, when our system went through the WOM conversion, we NEVER even had clear QAM expanded basic service - because CC ALREADY got their DTA (encryption) waiver by the time we got WOM/DTA's.


Well see, I base MY observations on the "real world", & the fact of the # of SD sets still out there.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one...


Should be, but the law does NOT state it MUST; it only states that a "version" of OTA locals must be clear QAM - it does NOT state if an HD version is offered, it MUST be clear QAM as well.
If you would go over to dslreports, you will find several posts of reports of subs that out of the blue, lost some/all of their clear QAM HD locals. Now whether they are are wrong & maybe they lost them due to something else, (channels moved into freqs that have "issues", traps, signal issues, etc.) I can't tell you. And our system here still has ALL our HD limited basics in clear QAM (which even includes WGNA, since it's a limited basic channel here) so I haven't had to deal with this, either.


See above re: law of clear HD. In most cases though, the local HD's are in clear QAM.

HOWEVER, if they did choose, for whatever reason, to restrict any/all local HD's from limited subs, they will be using encryption (& NOT traps) to accomplish this. You would they need either their HD box or cablecard to decrypt those channels. While I'm sure there's going to be some sort of "charge" for the box or cablecard rental - I can't speak about the "HD fee" per se, as I do not know of anyone that has had to do this very thing.

Sounds like keenan is saying you will NOT loose them on your system; I assume he's on your system as well...

I recently converted from Limited Basic to Digital Starter. They gave me a Pace RNG110 as my STB. My bill now includes both the Digital Starter/HSI price, along with an "Additional XFINITY TV Service" of "HD Technology Fee" for $10/month. There is no charge for the Pace RNG110 on my bill. Rental for one STB is included in the Digital Starter package.

As I see it, CC is doing "value pricing". They feel HD has more value than SD, so they charge more for it. From a packaging point of view, Digital Starter includes one STB and the SD versions of its included channels. You can move up to the more valuable HD versions of the channels for an additional $10 per month.

When I made the switch, I told them I wanted the HD versions. If I had not they may have given me a different STB that did not do HD.

Why they don't do this "value pricing" for cable cards in TIVO devices I do not know. It may have something to do with the FCC regulations requiring them to offer the cable cards. Or it may be that they don't distinguish between the HD and SD channels when they encrypt things. For whatever reason, dropping the monthly HD technology fee would go a good way to offsetting the monthly TIVO subscription. I guess I have to think about that.

Greg

Not necessarily...since CC implemented the "HD value fee", most, if not all CC regions (that use Moto equipment) stopped buying new stocks of SD (full) digital converters, & are now only buying those RNG110 converters instead. They are issuing these HD boxes even on non-HD accounts - if you choose NOT to pay the HD fee, ALL HD channels (including HD locals) are disabled on those converters. Pay the fee & they are turned back on.

This is NO different than what CC does now with the Moto DVR's, that ONLY come equipped with HD standard. Again, no HD fee - no HD on the DVR. This is actually easier (& cheaper) from an inventory aspect for CC, as now they do not have to keep acquiring & stocking (new) SD receivers; they only need 1 type of non-DVR digital converter for all subs - but still make $$$ on HD subs. The chances of an SD sub getting these boxes depends on what stock of boxes they at the time - it can go either way.

HD locals are not encrypted here.

Having just gone through this, I'll tie down your speculation with facts.

1) Comcast is NOT removing the filter traps from limited basic customers unless they are asked to remove them.

2) Comcast could have avoided having to remove the traps from limited basic customers lines if they had been careful what frequencies they chose to broadcast limited basic clear QAM channels on. They were not careful and put several clear QAM limited basic channels, local HD, and the Discovery channel into the bandwidth blocked by the old limited basic filters. This gives limited basic customers legitimate reasons to request the filters removal.

3) It is difficult but possible to convince comcast support that the filter is there and needs to be removed.

Does NOT matter - when CC set up this whole "HD access fee" thing through these converters, they used an "HD flag" tier bit in their authorization system, to control access to ALL HD channels in their (HD) converters - including their HD DVR's. When you do not have HD access authorized on your account, those HD converters will NOT be able to access ANY HD channels - regardless if they are clear QAM (unencrypted) or fully scrambled, whether it's part of your (base) prog pkg or not. Unfortunately, I had to find this particular issue out the hard way...

Does this make sense - considering HD locals are NOT encrypted??? Of course NOT - but this IS CC after all! I suspect they did this for 2 reasons:
- Since you are now getting HD receivers (for the same price as SD), CC had no intention of giving you ANY HD for FREE, w/out paying the HD fee
- It was easier to control HD access across ALL prog service tiers; instead of having to build separate authorization control tables for all those new individual HD channels, they can control ALL HD channels with the "HD flag" tier (one of the last software updates they did on the TVG, was specifically so they could do it in this fashion)

(understand this applies to Moto systems; I do not know for sure if they are doing the very same thing on their Cisco systems - but I suspect they are...)


Of course there IS a fix - use a 2-way splitter & run one feed directly to your clear QAM TV; the other leg goes into the converter. Then run a set of A/V outputs of your choice (HDMI, component, or composite) out of the RNG110 to an input on your HDTV. You'll have to switch inputs when you want your clear QAM HD locals.

Uh, the only thing I was "speculating", was if SF still had analog expanded basic cable, none of this would apply right now. (which I even underlined explaining this on my reply) Other than that, everything I've mentioned re: traps/DTA's/encrypted expanded basic digital, etc. is how CC is ultimately doing things in ALL their regions - no speculation here, thank you!


Didn't I basically say the same thing...

While I'm sure CC will NOT be going around removing ALL expanded basic traps from limited subs lines, they WILL have to keep making house calls to remove them every time a limited sub upgrades service.

OK, agree - they are NOT removing those traps on a "mass" basis, unless the sub upgrades prog, or due to "service issues" as you state below.


Totally agree; that's happened around here some, even when we were Insight - luckily I never HAD a limited basic trap to deal with


Oh YEA; rather go through a root canal...

Look, I didn't mean to get off-tangent from the OP(s); all I was trying to get though to Brian - was that CC is NO longer actively using traps to control access to certain tiers of channels on WOM/DTA (upgraded) systems. If you downgrade to limited basic from a higher tier, CC will simply shut off authorization to all those applicable channels through their converters, DTA's, or cablecards). No tech will be coming out to install traps at the house or anything like that - which is EXACTLY why CC choose to encrypt the digital expanded basics & require a DTA, receiver or CableCard to receive them.

FYI - if you go to the Insight or WOW cable forums@dslreports, they started out encrypting their expanded basic lineup, but then turned the encryption OFF, so that clear QAM TV's would no longer need any boxes to keep their existing SD expanded basic service. Needless to say, a lot of subs over their were happy they did this...

Dishrich, do you have an HDHR?

What happened when I wanted the Sci-fi channel in HD was there was confusion because in some areas but not mine, Sci-fi was on Extended Basic. I had an SD digital package which included it. The guys sent out thought that if I had that package I should also get the HD channel. There was even a bit of confusion on this forum on how this worked. At the time I only had Limited Basic, the SD digital package and a bunch of HD channels in the clear. I probably also had Showtime or HBO at the time too. I had the 5100 STB. Comcast had added some more HD channels including Sci-fi. I got some of the new channels but not Sci-fi. The press release said I needed a different package but the guys they sent out argued I didn't need it until they finally called the head end folks.

After I had Sci-fi running I took the 5100 in and got a 3416.

dishrich: FYI: SF area removed analog Expanded Basic quite some time ago. The only analog signals that remain are channels 2-33. If I understand correctly, we can expect to see those disappear sometime next year.

Once they removed the Expanded Basic analog signals they started re-using those channels for digital channels. In so doing, they made the "mistake" of moving some of the Limited Basic digital channels (KQED/PBS and KGO/ABC) down into that band. This caused problems for folks that had notch filters installed. If I remember correctly, the start of this long discussion was because someone could no longer find KQED or KGO signals.

Thanks for the interesting discussion about the HD Flag. It seems to describe how Comcast is doing things. Interestingly, when I lost KQED, I knew what the problem was and called to report the problem. The CSR originally insisted that I need a STB and shipped me an old Moto box (I forget which one). It was supposed to give me Limited Basic HD content. I never installed it. Instead I got the truck roll to remove the filter and gave them back their box.

Shortly after that I converted to Digital Starter with HD.

Greg

I've subscribed to Sports Entertainment Package via On Demand with my remote, and i get Speed HD, Tennis Channel HD and NFL Redzone HD. Gotta love sports!!!

I don't know what plan we are now on. I was on something that gave me everything we did get on our HD DVR in HD. It was a "special". We were paying $68/mo. including internet - fast internet on special til March. The internet part is about $25/mo.
The rate was going to increase from $68 to $110. So I downgraded but said wanted to keep Comedy Central. They said OK.
Well it turns out that we do get all the channels up thru about a 100 - but only on our DTA connection. We don't get most of the channels - even SD - on our DVR.
Should we be getting everything we get thru our DTA box
thru our DVR box?
We do get a few of the lower channels in both SD and HD on our DVR. And do get comedy central in HD.
What I mainly miss is a version of MSNBC and ESPN.

...mike

Anyone else seeing the new channels show up?

I had to add the channels manually to my tivo and they have no guide data yet but I see BBC America HD and others.

Yes and these cretins did pull the plug on all of the HD premium multiplexes except the Spanish HBO channel. There was no legal notifcation that I'm aware of and certainly no price reduction in the premier package.

Really? HBO Latino is the only HBO-HD channel left? What about the other premium channels? I don't subscribe anymore so I can't check myself.

Anyone have a list of what was added? Should I even bother?

Just checked the TiVo channel listing and it looks like you're right, I see the following for premiums...

801-HBO-HD Pacific
808-HBO-HD Latino
816-Starz-HD Pacific
825-Showtime-HD Pacific
838-Cinemax-HD Pacific
847-The Movie Channel-HD Pacific

...and that's it.

What an unbelievable rip-off, and people pay $20 per network per month for these channels?

And Comcast's argument, I'm sure, will be that you are paying for the Premium service itself, not how many channels within that service are available to you. Legally, it probably holds water but it's a very shoddy way to treat higher paying customers. I wish that Direct could figure out how to implement a robust On Demand service that doesn't rely on your own internet connection and the chunks of your monthly byte allocation that it would use.

There's some real anger building up in the Xfinity user forums over the stripping of the Premium HDs.

I'll bet there is! If they lowered the price at least it would be a bit more palatable, but to leave the price as it is is just outrageous. And of course TiVo/Moxi owners get hit the hardest as we don't have access to VOD.

EncoreHD is still on 809. Looking at the listings as I type this. I was watching History 2 HD and it just went black. I'm getting Not Authorized for WildHD. I could live without WildHD. HBO Zone HD has the porn! I mean

If that's the case, Direct or God help us, Uverse might be better options. At least they continue to offer more linear premium channels with more capable DVRs. Without the On Demand system the value of the premium HD package is close to nil.

I recently had some deals which expired and pushed my bill to over $200! No more Encore & phone service (which we never used anyway) for me.

no sign of the new hd channels down here in san jose, south of bernal rd .

i did check on demand tho, and there are some offerings for bbc programming in HD.

Some like BBC America HD work with my subscription and others don't. I also lost the second HBO and Showtime HD channels.

Someone on the Xfinity User Forums said that when he called to complain he was effectively told that he was SOL. The next time I see one of those commercials touting the great customer service, I think that I'll wretch.

Has anyone in San Mateo been able to see Fox Soccer in HD (#803)?
My Tivo lists it (since last week), but there is no signal in that channel.
The Comcast tech was completely useless ("it will be activated before 2012")

Same here, TiVo added the channels, but none of them work. Kind of a pain because the HBO and Starz channels are still there, but TiVo says "to be announced"

Does anyone have recent information on the bitrates of the HD channels? Last I heard, the locals are still packed at 2:1, and I think that's still the case. Are all of the national cable nets now at 3:1?

I was trying to record MythBusters on the Discovery Channel using the Clear QAM SD channel last night, but it was OTA. Did anyone else notice that? My OnAir Creator says it is on channel 42.3 from the Cupertino headend.

I just checked now, and it seems to be back. So bummer. I missed the recording.