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New Laminate Test: Pearl Silver - Page 8

post #211 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

Actually, Pearl Silver is available in two finishes--

D487-90 is the "crystal" finish I used
D487-7 is the "textured gloss" finish, previously deemed "way too shiny" in this forum (this is the standard Wilsonart finish for all colors, including Fashion Gray).

Which brings up a question-- since the RGB numbers show, as mech stated, that Fashion Gray and Pearl Silver should be "virtually indistinguishable", why does WilsonArt make BOTH colors, instead of settling on one?

Pear Silver and Platinum are "virtually indistinguishable", not Fashion Grey. FG is 195 188 194, a much lighter gray than the previous two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

I think the answer lies in part in the names of the products-- both look gray, so why call one "Pearl Silver"? It can't be the texture, because both Fashion Gray and Pearl Silver come "standard" in the "-07 textured gloss" finish, which would result in a "virtually identical", not a "virtually indistinguishable" product. There must be another difference- one not related to glossmeter readings or RGB values

My suspicion is that "pearl silver", although it doesn't appear to be pearly or silver, contains reflective ingredients like very fine mica or metal powders in the mix, to give it that "pearly glow". That would account for the seeming extreme luminosity of the samples we've used, as well as some of pjohnson's rhapsodizing over its "magical" qualities. (and yup, in the dark, it looks like a plasma screen--- amazing brightness for our Precambrian-era projector)

While this could be possible, as I have yet to test any type of mica flakes/metal powders, I have doubts. As stated I have no experience with metallics, but I would hazard a guess that if said particles were within said laminate, light reflected upon it would reflect back at many different angles. Unless you're going to tell me next that it's designed with perfectly shaped flat flakes that only direct the light straight back. And if this were the case then I would surmise that said laminate should be expensive to produce. I think I've shown that in the off-axis shots, Pearl Silver blends right in with Platinum and FG for that matter.






The easiest description of the difference between the two is the finish. One is matte - which has shown itself not only in laminates but in paint mixes to be an excellent finish - and the other is Crystal. Looking at the two finishes (as I have large samples of both), the best way to describe the Crystal finish for me would be to take a gloss polyurethane, load it up in a spray gun and do one quick duster coat. Quick enough so that the poly dries seconds after hitting the laminate forming little flecks of finish upon the surface. The matte finish uses a matte poly and is allowed a bit more time to settle. Now I'm not saying the matte finish is smooth. Cause it's not. I'm just saying it's smoother than Crystal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

It occurs to me that "Pearl Silver's" gain would be similar to some of the translucent reflective multilayer coatings others (Tiddler in particular) have experimented with.

The big difference here is that a coating applied afterwards would smooth the surface out. Two coats of poly on my FG made it pretty much flat. It filled in all the valleys knocking out the peaks. While I've always held my theory regarding poly on Pearl Silver to myself, I think it's time to share. If you put two coats of the Behr Poly on your Pearl Silver it will result in a Platinum Laminate - matte finish of course - with no hot spotting. Betcha a lot of folks seen that coming!

Here's a macro of the finishes







Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

Here's an idea-- when we've committed to a final screen coating (or lack thereof), I'll pay to ship my large samples (about 24" x 32") to anyone with the gear, the time, and the inclination to do some technical comparisons with Fashion Gray, and figure out if there is really any difference, or if the people at WilsonArt need a lesson in production efficiencies.

-bob (UncleScurvy)

My money's on the folks at Wilsonart...

Again, Pearl Silver may be an option for a very low lumen projector or with a couple topcoats. But with what's coming out today projector-wise, and the fact that some folks haven't had to topcoat their matte finish laminates, why? A similarity would be a new paint mix that let's say pb_maxx comes out with looks very promising to him. Yet after he tests it out he decides it needs a couple of poly topcoats to knock down the hot spots. The resulting screen is identical to a mix he already came out with and yet requires more steps to get to that point. What do you think he'd do?

Now don't get me wrong Bob. I realize that you have an older CRT projector. So this screen may be perfect for yours and others like it. But I don't want the folks using a new 2000+ lumen digital projector thinking that this is the thing for them. Keep up the excellent work and take some good pictures!

mech
post #212 of 251
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post








mech


mech,

Please point out the materials here:




What I'm curious about is the "sparkle" in the material at the left of the picture:



Thanks,

Paul
post #213 of 251
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

My guess is the left side is the pearl and those sparklies are pearl flakes. But I am guessing.


....riiiiight. If so, then this alone clearly shows the difference between PS90 and Platinum. Color aside, there appears to be something happening in the material on the left that sets it apart from the material on the right...
post #214 of 251
Sorry about the confusion between Fashion Gray and Platinum- my brain clearly slipped a gear when I wrote that message ! But the point remains-- if WilsonArt is so smart, why do they make Platinum and Pearl Silver both with the "standard finish" being the "-07 textured gloss" finish? If they are virtually identical products, with identical (almost) RGB values, and identical gloss, it wouldn't make any sense. I'd dearly love to find out what the difference is.

We'll have to wait for mech to identify the photos, but I'm betting the 'sparklie' one is the Pearl Silver. (of course, if they ARE identical products, I'll feel pretty silly {not a new thing!!}, paying a premium price for the opportunity to experiment with the PS90!)

Didn't someone's (in this forum) wife comment that she disliked the PS90 because it looked like the screen was "alive with glowworms" or somthing like that? I'm betting that if that guy was using a projector a lot more powerful than ours (we're "700 peak lumens"), that what we saw as a 'luminous picture, like a plasma display" might just look freakishly 'alive with glowworms' when illuminated by a more reasonably powered PJ.

My offer still stands-- once we get some decent photos taken, and make a decision on a screen coating, I'll pay to ship my two 24" x 32" samples of PS90, one with 2 coats of Behr matte poly, one with 2 coats of "Ohgee what I thought I was making was Tiddler's mix, but now its UncleScurvy's mix". Both exhibit sight banding from the tiny Preval srayers, and the poly-only sheet took a face-dive while still wet, and was cleaned and redone poorly. But the optical qualities remain, and the purist can always just whack-em with "goof-off".

-bob
post #215 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

Sorry about the confusion between Fashion Gray and Platinum- my brain clearly slipped a gear when I wrote that message ! But the point remains-- if WilsonArt is so smart, why do they make Platinum and Pearl Silver both with the "standard finish" being the "-07 textured gloss" finish? If they are virtually identical products, with identical (almost) RGB values, and identical gloss, it wouldn't make any sense. I'd dearly love to find out what the difference is.

Why not just call Wilsonart and ask what the difference is? I mean everyone in here can guess and speculate, but Wilsonart can tell you exactly what the difference between them is, including the exact color.
post #216 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohnston007 View Post

mech,

Please point out the materials here:

What I'm curious about is the "sparkle" in the material at the left of the picture:


Thanks,

Paul

The Platinum is laying on top of the Pearl Silver.

As to the sparkle, it's from the gloss coating that Wilsonart used and the texture difference between the two. There is no , I repeat no pearl or silver mica /flakes in the finish. As explained, many times now, if there were it would reflect the light at all angles. Including off-axis shots, of which I've posted a plethora of. And it does not reflect anything off-axis. Which is why I thought it may originally be a possibility for a low mounted projector. Time for me to put it under the microscope I guess... again.

Please folks, read the posts. I've stated this many times over...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sennin View Post

Why not just call Wilsonart and ask what the difference is? I mean everyone in here can guess and speculate, but Wilsonart can tell you exactly what the difference between them is, including the exact color.

Finally, someone with sane advice...

mech
post #217 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

Sorry about the confusion between Fashion Gray and Platinum- my brain clearly slipped a gear when I wrote that message ! But the point remains-- if WilsonArt is so smart, why do they make Platinum and Pearl Silver both with the "standard finish" being the "-07 textured gloss" finish? If they are virtually identical products, with identical (almost) RGB values, and identical gloss, it wouldn't make any sense. I'd dearly love to find out what the difference is.

Here it is again. They are virtually identical colors. They are not identical finishes. Crystal is a highly textured gloss finish. Matte is a less textured matte finish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

We'll have to wait for mech to identify the photos, but I'm betting the 'sparklie' one is the Pearl Silver. (of course, if they ARE identical products, I'll feel pretty silly {not a new thing!!}, paying a premium price for the opportunity to experiment with the PS90!)

Didn't someone's (in this forum) wife comment that she disliked the PS90 because it looked like the screen was "alive with glowworms" or somthing like that? I'm betting that if that guy was using a projector a lot more powerful than ours (we're "700 peak lumens"), that what we saw as a 'luminous picture, like a plasma display" might just look freakishly 'alive with glowworms' when illuminated by a more reasonably powered PJ.

It was my wife and it was something along the lines of "sparklies" - from ~14 feet back. My Hc3000 is bright, but not as bright as what's coming out these days. I only know the ansi lumens as 1000. I run it in eco mode though and I have no idea what it is there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

My offer still stands-- once we get some decent photos taken,

You don't like my photos?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

and make a decision on a screen coating, I'll pay to ship my two 24" x 32" samples of PS90, one with 2 coats of Behr matte poly, one with 2 coats of "Ohgee what I thought I was making was Tiddler's mix, but now its UncleScurvy's mix". Both exhibit sight banding from the tiny Preval srayers, and the poly-only sheet took a face-dive while still wet, and was cleaned and redone poorly. But the optical qualities remain, and the purist can always just whack-em with "goof-off".

-bob

Don't let anything I say bother you Bob. I think you're doing something that at one time alot of us have done (and some haven't). When I bought my FG no one had tried it out yet. But by the time I made it back to the board someone was already talking about hot spots with their sheet purchased and hung slightly before me. I didn't let it discourage me. And then MMan, tiddler, and wbasset recommended the poly. God bless 'em! Keep goin' at it and make this thing work for ya! And don't feel silly.

mech
post #218 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

My guess is the left side is the pearl and those sparklies are pearl flakes. But I am guessing.

Todd,

Wouldn't you think that with that texture and the gloss finish, that if it were pearl/silver or whatever flakes, that it would reflect projected light at all angles? Including off axis?

I have the sample and have seen nothing with the naked eye that suggests pearl or silver flakes. The only thing to note is as I have stated, it's glossier and there's a lot more texture. I'm gonna put this thing under the microscope and try to talk to Wilsonart.

mech
post #219 of 251
Hi guys-- I've sent an email to WilsonArt, the text of which is below.

(an aside to mech- thanx for the encouragement!! -but I think you misunderstood me on the finishes-- I ordered the "-90 crystal finish" on my Pearl Siver, you got the "-60 matte finish" on your sheet of Platinum, but the STANDARD FINISH on both Pearl Silver and Platinum is the "-07 textured gloss finish"- which means that a standard sheet of Platinum (in the standard "-07 textured gloss finish" should be indistinguishable from Pearl Silver (in the standard "-07 textured gloss finish")
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Folks!!

I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but quite a few people have been using WilsonArt laminates as viewing screens for Projection TVs. The general feeling is that either "Designer White" (D-354) or "Fashion Gray" (D-381) are the preferred colors for most projectors.

Several of us (in the Audio-Video Sciences Forum, at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9&page=1&pp=30 ) have been experimenting with other colors, in particular, "Platinum(D-315)", and "Pearl Silver" (D-487). Our tests have raised some questions-- the RGB value of "Platinum" is 186, 179, 187; while the RGB value of "Pearl Silver" is 188, 182, 188.

This makes the colors virtually identical, but the "Pearl Silver" sometimes seems to be more "luminous". What is the difference between "Pearl Silver" and "Platinum" (is there a difference?)? Are there metallic, reflective, or pearlescent particles in the "Pearl Silver"? Thank you in advance for your time and assistance.

Warmest Regards,

-Bob
post #220 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

Hi Folks!!

I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but quite a few people have been using WilsonArt laminates as viewing screens for Projection TVs. The general feeling is that either "Designer White" (D-354) or "Fashion Gray" (D-381) are the preferred colors for most projectors.

Several of us (in the Audio-Video Sciences Forum, at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9&page=1&pp=30 ) have been experimenting with other colors, in particular, "Platinum(D-315)", and "Pearl Silver" (D-487). Our tests have raised some questions-- the RGB value of "Platinum" is 186, 179, 187; while the RGB value of "Pearl Silver" is 188, 182, 188.



nooooooo.....up goes the price for those laminates
post #221 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by tradewinds View Post

nooooooo.....up goes the price for those laminates

My thoughts too. The best of intentions are often reciprocated with a lousy response. Higher prices.

Far better to just ask a simple question, than wax eloquent about how everyone has found another, more "expensive" use for a common product. It's a tough call to make, and one that is governed by both enthusiasm and the desire to have a response returned equivalent to the importance of the query to the "poser'.

But the "asking" is well intended, and the info should put a particular Puppy to rest.

"The PROPER use of a clear matte finish can temper down the overly reflective tendencies of a surface into a range where it (reflectivity) becomes advantageous, not a detriment."

My goodness, the whole idea behind laminates is that they be "Good to Go" once received. Otherwise, there are far less expensive materials available that have perfectly smooth, white or gray textureless surfaces, and that require very simple coatings to make them perform up to and beyond MFg screen specs. If you have to coat a laminate to get exacting performance, you should also be considering the alternatives.

Proven alternatives, I might add.
post #222 of 251
It is like my wife, I keep telling her to stop volunteering more information than is needed to get the job done, contract signed, car bought, or whatever the haggle of the day is.

Bob, thank you for at least making the effort to find out the well needed information.
post #223 of 251
I wouldnt worry about Wilsonart raising prices. They make far more money from sales for countertop use. I wouldnt put it past Home Depot to raise their prices though for full size sheets, or tack on some outrageous handling fee above and beyond what they already charge.
post #224 of 251
Quote:


My goodness, the whole idea behind laminates is that they be "Good to Go" once received. Otherwise, there are far less expensive materials available that have perfectly smooth, white or gray textureless surfaces,

gray ??? really?? I don't recall any references in my months of reading ... I was prepared to add a single coat of poly to my sheet of FG laminate, but found it unneccesary...

Quote:


I wouldnt put it past Home Depot to raise their prices though for full size sheets, or tack on some outrageous handling fee above and beyond what they already charge.

fortunately, nobody (that we know of) has written to Home Depot for such info
post #225 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

So those sparkly spots are probably the glossy sides of the texture not flakes.


Yes.

mech
post #226 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

(an aside to mech- thanx for the encouragement!! -but I think you misunderstood me on the finishes-- I ordered the "-90 crystal finish" on my Pearl Siver, you got the "-60 matte finish" on your sheet of Platinum, but the STANDARD FINISH on both Pearl Silver and Platinum is the "-07 textured gloss finish"- which means that a standard sheet of Platinum (in the standard "-07 textured gloss finish" should be indistinguishable from Pearl Silver (in the standard "-07 textured gloss finish")

There has never been any experimentation done with regards to finishes until Pearl Silver. Due to the high glossometer readings of all the finishes except -60 matte, they were all pretty much disregarded. I know what you have and I know what I have, what's your point? Where exactly does the -07 finish come into play? I don't have any of it and I'm sure no one else does so I'm a bit confused as to what you're trying to say... Oh wait, my platinum sample is -60. Is that what you were wondering?

mech
post #227 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

My thoughts too. The best of intentions are often reciprocated with a lousy response. Higher prices.

Far better to just ask a simple question, than wax eloquent about how everyone has found another, more "expensive" use for a common product. It's a tough call to make, and one that is governed by both enthusiasm and the desire to have a response returned equivalent to the importance of the query to the "poser'.

But the "asking" is well intended, and the info should put a particular Puppy to rest.

"The PROPER use of a clear matte finish can temper down the overly reflective tendencies of a surface into a range where it (reflectivity) becomes advantageous, not a detriment."

My goodness, the whole idea behind laminates is that they be "Good to Go" once received. Otherwise, there are far less expensive materials available that have perfectly smooth, white or gray textureless surfaces, and that require very simple coatings to make them perform up to and beyond MFg screen specs. If you have to coat a laminate to get exacting performance, you should also be considering the alternatives.

Proven alternatives, I might add.

Well said! Just out of curiousity MMan, what do you think would be the difference between a gloss poly'd surface with loads of texture and a matte poly surface with less texture?

mech
post #228 of 251
Alright, youse guys, pipe down and relax

As Mr. Senin said, Wilsonart sells a lot of countertop laminate-- a quick look at the annual report for their 'mother company, ITW' shows that Wilsonart Laminates discontinued one product line, and took a 9 million dollar writeoff. That's a lot of sheets of countertop, compared to a few dozen guys making PJ screens. At most, to them, we're an interesting curiosity--

....and mech, the point I'm trying to make, (Just for a moment, forget about the use of laminate for PJs) -- is that Wilsonart makes thousands of sheets a year of Platinum (in gloss "-07") and Pearl Silver (in gloss -"07"), which they sell to people who want shiny gray countertops.

These two colors, in the same "-07 gloss finish" are virtually identical products. Why do they bother to make two colors, when they could just make ONE in a wider variety of finishes, and gain economies of scale? Only WilsonArt can tell us.
If their IS a difference, especially if it involves metallics or pearlescents, that would make Pearl Silver worth as you said, 'putting under the microscope'.

I gotta tell you guys, working on this screen and participating in this forum have both been educational and fun! And I'm a big, dumb, Swede, with thick skin, so don't worry about hurting my feelings!

-bob
post #229 of 251
Also look at it kinda like satin and eggshell paint finishes. Same base colors, very slightly different sheens...

Bob does have a point though, if it was merely the same color but different surface coating that wouldn't make sense to do two seperate production runs.

Textured Gloss - 7
A textured finish which reproduces the high sheen of waxed wood furniture. Recommended for horizontal and vertical applications.

Matte - 60
A non-directional textured finish with a moderate reflective quality. Recommended for horizontal and vertical applications. Standard on many Wilsonart® Laminates.

Also a quick call to Wilsonart, Angie said that the Pearl Silver is a 'new design' and is part of the premium grade laminates (read, more expensive) while Platinum, FG, and all the others are the standard finish/grade. The main difference is that the standard finish laminates are a solid and single color, while the premium grade laminate has a different texture and color pattern as well as coming in a semi-gloss finish. Also the Pearl Silver is described as more of a metal look.

This means that there is a slightly different texture between the two as well as a much higher surface sheen and specular gain. Also Pearl Silver isnt a 'solid' color, which is probably what is being seen with the dots or 'sparklies' in the Alice's Restaurant style pictures above.

For Bob's situation and having a somewhat older and lower lumen projector, (please dont take that as an insult) he is probably fine with the PS, but for some of the newer high lumen, high CR projectors out there it is going to hot spot. Probably very similar to satin or semi-gloss paint. Add in that it is not one solid color and these high lumen projectors will probably sparkle, especially during fast pans across the screen.

It sounds like a classic case of what may work for one person or a few, may not be something that works for everyone. Personally my money would be on either FG or Platinum, but I have a high output projector too.
post #230 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

....and mech, the point I'm trying to make, (Just for a moment, forget about the use of laminate for PJs) -- is that Wilsonart makes thousands of sheets a year of Platinum (in gloss "-07") and Pearl Silver (in gloss -"07"), which they sell to people who want shiny gray countertops.

These two colors, in the same "-07 gloss finish" are virtually identical products. Why do they bother to make two colors, when they could just make ONE in a wider variety of finishes, and gain economies of scale? Only WilsonArt can tell us.
If their IS a difference, especially if it involves metallics or pearlescents, that would make Pearl Silver worth as you said, 'putting under the microscope'.

I think a good person to ask this question would be a home decorator. also ask them why there are something like a gazillion yellows!!

mech
post #231 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sennin View Post

Also look at it kinda like satin and eggshell paint finishes. Same base colors, very slightly different sheens...

Bob does have a point though, if it was merely the same color but different surface coating that wouldn't make sense to do two seperate production runs.

Textured Gloss - 7
A textured finish which reproduces the high sheen of waxed wood furniture. Recommended for horizontal and vertical applications.


Matte - 60
A non-directional textured finish with a moderate reflective quality. Recommended for horizontal and vertical applications. Standard on many Wilsonart® Laminates.

Also a quick call to Wilsonart, Angie said that the Pearl Silver is a 'new design' and is part of the premium grade laminates (read, more expensive) while Platinum, FG, and all the others are the standard finish/grade. The main difference is that the standard finish laminates are a solid and single color, while the premium grade laminate has a different texture and color pattern as well as coming in a semi-gloss finish. Also the Pearl Silver is described as more of a metal look.

It really doesn't look like metal though. It looks gray...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sennin View Post

This means that there is a slightly different texture between the two as well as a much higher surface sheen and specular gain. Also Pearl Silver isnt a 'solid' color, which is probably what is being seen with the dots or 'sparklies' in the Alice's Restaurant style pictures above.

I perused it under the microscope and I'll eat my crow now... it does appear to have some type of a pearl type mica or flakes in there. Unless it's the high gloss finish. I always knew my kids microscope may come in handy someday!

This 200X.


This is 60X


Paul and Bob,

I apologize. There definitely appears to be some sort of mica or something in there.

Anyone have a little ketchup for my crow?!?!?!

mech
post #232 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

[Snip]It really doesn't look like metal though. It looks gray... [Snip]

By metal, she could have been refering to the sheen, although gun metal is a grayish color.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

[Snip]I perused it under the microscope and I'll eat my crow now... it does appear to have some type of a pearl type mica or flakes in there. Unless it's the high gloss finish. I always knew my kids microscope may come in handy someday! [Snip]

That sounds exactly like what Angie was saying on the phone. She said the standard grade laminate is one solid color, and the premium isnt and you just showed that clearer than day.

Can you throw a piece of FG under the microscope too?
post #233 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sennin View Post

Can you throw a piece of FG under the microscope too?


Nope but I did Platinum... makes me think I may be eatin' crow a little early too


These are 2 at 200X





You can see some sparklies in this as well just not as many or as bright. Which is swinging me back to the finish thing.

Here's 60X



Takin' the labcoat off now....

mech
post #234 of 251
mech, you can eat your crow later, if you really feel the need! right now, we are faced with an interesting prospect- (and awaiting more detail from Wilsonart), and I'd like to borrow your brain and experience--

We have a (perhaps under-evaluated) material that can be bent into a smooth curve, has a dead neutral RGB value, a "metallic" appearance (not that you or I saw, but hey, they make the stuff...), seems to exhibit difficult to describe optical qualities when lit by a low powered PJ, and although it seems to contain some type of flakes or pearlmix, does NOT reflect light off-axis, but behaves as if the particles were all laid "perfectly flat".

Now that's a material that might have possibilities, especially for those with low-powered PJ's and difficulty controlling ambient light.

We'll probably put a matte coating on our screen, because our early quick-and-dirty test showed hotspotting on the virgin material, none on the Behr Matte Poly or the Unclescurvy's mix panels-- but we want to take a closer look. (Note that even with the matte coatings, this stuff looked 'luminous' with that old PJ)

Thank you for taking the time to throw this stuff under the scope-- I know you were getting a little frustrated with Paul and I, but we just kept seeing stuff in this surface that didn't make sense to us-- I'll post here as soon as I get a response from Wilsonart-- maybe then you'll be able to help us put together a theory as to whats going on with this stuff.

thanxs for all, and skip the crow!

-bob
post #235 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

[Snip]Actually, Pearl Silver is available in two finishes--

D487-90 is the "crystal" finish I used
D487-7 is the "textured gloss" finish, previously deemed "way too shiny" in this forum (this is the standard Wilsonart finish for all colors, including Fashion Gray). [Snip]

I dont want to come across the wrong way, but the standard finish on Fashion Grey, Platinum, DW, and I think most if not all of the standard color series of Wilsonart laminates is the matte finish, not the textured gloss finish.

http://samples.wilsonart.com/p-248-f...y-d381-60.aspx
post #236 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleScurvy View Post

[Snip]Here is a shot of the ingredients, after mixing with an electric mixer. Man, this stuff is swirly! The coating is thoroughly mixed, but differences in the 'lay' of the individual particles leave swirls. That's why it's so important to spray this stuff, and why your best bet is to spray it like metalflake (taking care that all passes with the gun are in the same direction, to keep the 'lay' consistent)


And lastly, here's the "Tiddler's Mix" in the Preval unit, ready to shoot.
[Snip]

-bob

Bob, I'm curious about the mix you are using. How translucent is it? It definitely will knock down the semi-gloss sheen of the PS, but depending on how translucent it is, it may not matter if you put it on Pearl Silver, or just a nice gray paint.

Wilsonart says it's a semi-gloss surface, but it doesn't look quite that shiny from the pictures, is it in person? Most of the paints and paint bases people use are flat, then there is a matte finish, an eggshell, satin, semi-gloss, gloss, and high gloss. If this is semi-gloss, it is going to hot spot something fierce. Your top coating looks interesting though.

How well does the Preval sprayer work? I was actually looking into them myself for a couple of projects.
post #237 of 251
I must be really lazy... you guys are really doing yeomens' work and research on these laminates. I love my DW just as it is...
post #238 of 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Sennin View Post

Wilsonart says it's a semi-gloss surface, but it doesn't look quite that shiny from the pictures, is it in person? Most of the paints and paint bases people use are flat, then there is a matte finish, an eggshell, satin, semi-gloss, gloss, and high gloss. If this is semi-gloss, it is going to hot spot something fierce. Your top coating looks interesting though.

It does look shiny in person, especially when compared to the matte finish. And it does hot spot something fierce. I couldn't recall the separate finishes, thanks for posting those. It appears that Pearl Silver would be three up from matte and darn near high gloss.

mech
post #239 of 251
Yikes! Mr Sennin is right--- my distributer seems to stock everything in "-07" gloss, so I figgered that was a Wilsonart practice-- must just be my local supplier.

and in response to your question, the behr matte poly is completely transparent; the "unclescurvy's" mix that I used is very translucent-- I'd guess it'd take 10-20 coats or more to make it opaque. The Preval units work well, but they are best for very small projects-- trying to paint a big sheet like my 24"x32" samples leaves 'banding', no matter how hard I tried to get the overlap right

Lastly, a response from Wilsonart, below:
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Hello, thank you for the e-mail. Yes, you are right. The difference is in the (D-487-7) Pearl Silver LS is, the pearlescent particles in the Pearl Silver. If you should need any additional information, please call 1-800-433-3222 and ask for our Technical Division. Thank you for choosing Wilsonart.

Noah
Wilsonart International, Inc.
Smartline@wilsonart.com
1-800-400-2322
post #240 of 251
Here is the complete list of WilsonArt surface finishes, from glossiest to least glossy. Note that with a glossometer reading of 10 +/- 2 both matte and 'touchstone' are the same gloss (different textures). The "Crystal" finish of the PS90 is the second least glossy (or 'most matte') with a glossometer reading of 13 +/- 3. The crystal finish has some 'shine' to it, but I wouldn't call it "very glossy" by any means (I think it someone else compared it to a 'glass-beaded' metal suface in reflectivity).

Shinier than the matte, sure, but on a Glossometer scale of 1-100, "Matte-60" is "10", "High Gloss-01" is a "100", and "Textured gloss-07" reads 36, 360% shinier than "Matte-60". "Crystal-90" comes in at a 13, about 30% shiner than "Matte-60".

The "Crystal-90" finish will in all probablility need a matte topcoat.

#1 High Gloss
A mirror sheen finish which gives a smooth, brilliant appearance. Excellent for any vertical application. Laminates with a high gloss finish can be used for horizontal application only in light use areas. We recommend that it not be used on horizontal work surfaces such as countertops. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 100 +/- 10.

#52 Quarry
Premium finish emulating the pitted look of polished natural stone. Available on a select number of designs only. Glossometer reading: MD 55 +/- 5.

#35 Mirage
A lightly textured finish featuring subtle variations in matte and glass, creating the illusion of depth. Available only in the WilsonartHD product line; not available on other patterns or colors. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 50 +/- 20.

#7 Textured Gloss
A textured finish which reproduces the high sheen of waxed wood furniture. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Available only on those designs for which it is the standard finish. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 36 +/- 3.

#38 Fine Velvet Texture
A smooth textured finish with moderate reflective value. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Available only on those designs for which it is the standard finish. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 14 +/- 2.

#90 Crystal
A very finely beaded texture that minimizes smudges and finger marks and improves scratch resistance. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 13 +/- 3.

#50 Touchstone
A pebbled texture with the look and feel of coarse-grained sand. Recommended for vertical and non-writing horizontal surfaces in residential and commercial applications. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 10 +/- 2.

#60 Matte
Textured finish with a moderate reflective quality. Recommended for horizontal and vertical application. Glossometer reading: MD and CD 10 +/- 2.
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