Washington, DC / Baltimore, MD - HDTV - Page 424

I just noticed this morning that WRC is now sending out a true 16:9 SD signal for their 4.2 Nonstop channel, so it actually fills out the screen properly without having to do any manual zooming. With so many SD channels switching to 16:9 these days, I wish they'd all do it this way instead of letterboxing it in a 4:3 window.

I wonder if that's because much of the material has already been shown in HD on 4.1, so its already 16:9. I can't get WRC anymore, so I haven't kept up with it.
J

My TV is also detecting a 16:9 480i SD signal on 4.2. But, WRC is broadcasting 4.2 in a 4:3 aspect ratio and not filling out the screen. People and objects appear elongated and skinny using this 4:3 aspect ratio. When I manually stretch the picture to wide screen 16:9 everything is proportional like it should be. However, that setting also stretches out every 4:3 480i SD channel to 16:9 which I do not want to do. Therefore, it's not my television. WRC should be broadcasting in widescreen if their PSIP data reads 16:9. In reality, WRC is now broadcasting black side pillar bars by squeezing 16:9 widescreen aspect ratio material incorrectly to a 4:3 aspect ratio.

I'm wondering if this is the only way they could make it work? Fox 21 does the same thing & it works quite well considering it's only 480i.

Forgive me if I appear dense. Make WHAT work? What is the purpose of telecasting a 16:9 widescreen program if you are going to purposely distort it to 4:3? I have seen before widescreen 480i broadcasted in a true 16:9 aspect ratio. It doesn't look half bad considering that all objects are proportional and not stretched laterally. Some sporting events are sent out in perfectly proportioned 16:9 480i. But for the life of me, why would WRC distort an original 16:9 program and thereby have to use black vertical side pillars? Why would they purposely squeeze original 16:9 widescreen material that probably was originally recorded in 720p HD or 1080i HD when they could broadcast it in 480i and still use proportional widescreen 16:9?

I have never seen widescreen 480i, so I wasn't sure if was even possible.

Oh, yeah.. It's possible. WVEC in Norfolk broadcasts its news in widescreen SD. I'm sure many others do the same.

Of course it's possible. Widescreen DVD movies are done this way.

I thought that only worked with 480p DVD's?

This morning you sent me data on WBOC. Their 21-2 signal is in wide 480i.

- Trip

Thanks Trip, I just tried 21-2 & I still have to leave the TV in stretch mode just like on 4-2. (But neither look stretched) I wasn't sure if they are actually broadcast as 16:9? Maybe some TV's automatically default to 4:3 unless forced to 16:9 when they detect 480 resolution?

I've heard of things like that happening. There's a flag that stations like WBOC send that the 480i is widescreen, but I think some sets ignore it.

- Trip

That may be the case. The picture on 4-2 filled out properly on both of my TVs, one a 42" Panasonic plasma connected to TiVo Premiere, the other a 32" Panasonic LCD connected to a Moto HD box.

4.2 filled the screen properly on my ancient Samsung tuner.

It would be great if WRC didn't have a permanent black bar on 4.3 Universal Sports that distorts the picture. Even using zoom, you still have the bar present, while losing image at the bottom. If they would just center the image, I would be happy as I actually watch a fair bit of content on the channel.

Screencaps from a 4:3 commercial, and 16:9 Giro coverage on 4.3 Universal Sports.

I know exactly what the issue is and so should the engineering staff at WRC. Give them a call after you finish reading this (during working hours of course).

For some idiotic reason they are adding VBI to the video they are getting. NBC is feeding the video as 704x480. WRC is adding VBI to the top of the video, making it 704x512. If they were feeding an analog NTSC circuit, then the VBI would be a must. But DTV doesn't have VBI.

So, the 704x512 video gets shrunk to 704x480 for the DTV encoder.

There is nothing you can do, other than complain to the engineering staff about the 32 lines of VBI.

To top it off, they aren't even injecting any VBI data. Either way, until you complain, they probably aren't going to fix it.

Oh hell no. Pure 480i or 480p 23.976/29.97 that is output from the DVD player as NTSC 525 line interlaced video.

480i/p anamorphic widescreen video is part of the DTV standard.

More than likely the satellite receiver or whatever the video source this came from is set up to output overscan, which is showing the timecode and other VBI already in the video. I doubt that WRC is adding VBI or VITC to the stream.

Before I posted, I double-checked by tuning in the C-band backup version of the NBC feeds. I'll have a friend verify the Ku feed.

The feed is 704x480, it is not 704x512. I've had a couple of IRDs and not one of them allowed me to add VBI to the 480i video. The feed was either 480 or 512. IIRC, before Fox changed their HD/SD 8PSK feeds, their QPSK SD feeds were 720x512 and were a PITA bcause of it.

I'll report back on the Ku feed to make sure that they aren't feeding 704x512.

^^^
Update to the above posting.

The Ku NBC feed of the Universal Sports SD video is the same as the C-band (which it better be, otherwise the C-band backup would be kinda useless), in that the video resolution is 704x480.

This definitely means that something is wrong at WRC. Either the IRD is capable of adding the VBI 32 lines to the 480i feed (which I suppose could be possible, as it is a newer IRD), or somewhere in their plant, it is getting added.

They need to be told that their video is screwed up and needs to be fixed.

I still find it hard to believe that their engineering staff doesn't know about this.

So other than this forum, have you sent them an E-mail asking why the video resolution or underscan condition exists?

Many times upper or corporate management gives an order to put particular content on a dot2, 3, by a certain time. Depending on the content and the gear used to receive, an extra aspect ratio, newer IRD or other converter may not be available in house. So in order to meet the programming deadline, one has to make do while a new IRD or converter is ordered. My guess is they're coming out of an IRD with an NTSC output, then through an A/D converter, an aspect ratio converter, then into the router.

Really, I'm pretty sure there isn't a vast conspiracy nor intentional insertion of VBI. More likely they're waiting for a dedicated IRD with an SDI output to arrive. But aside from my guess, you can always just ask.

As I'm not the OP, the answer is no. If I lived there, then I would probably give them a call. Only to get it fixed for viewers who care about sports. I don't/


I seriously doubt that. IIRC, WRC is a NBC O&O, which means that corporate bought the necessary gear for all of the O&Os. Plus I doubt that it was a rush job in this case. BTW, I've not seen a video A/D that also captures the VBI, or at least gives the user an option to do so, or not.


Nope, never thought that it was being done on purpose. As the feed is 8PSK, any IRD used to tune in the feed would have a SDI output. I don't know of any IRDs these days that don't, especially newer ones.

I just figure that it is a misconfiguration somewhere in the chain that has gone unnoticed.

I have to ask, in order to cover all the bases. Just what was used to capture the images? OTA, cable, tuner, etc. Please be specific.

In this specific case, from Verizon Fios via Firewire from my STB. I can provide screencaps from the OTA channel via Firewire as well from my 34XBR960. They look the same. The channel has had this large band at the top for at least the last 1.5 years (since I moved here and found it)

Interesting.. When I watch the WRC 'dot' channels via OTA from my home in Stafford, VA., rather than the main channel via DirecTV. I tuned in last evening OTA and found both the dot channels were full screen, with no over or underscan. I wonder if this is something unique to Verizon, and how they're feeding their cable modulators? At least from what I saw, OTA looked fine.

Watching WRC OTA with an old Samsung tuner set to display 4:3 content in 4:3... 4.1 and 4.2 both display in 16:9 and 4.3 shows in 4:3. On 4.3, the black bar shows up top when SD content is played and letterboxed widescreen programming is shifted lower. This is a recent development and may have happened when 4.2 was set to widescreen.

For me,

1) via Fios : 4.2 is a 16x9 SD image broadcast in a 4x3 window, and 4.3 Universal Sports has the black band across the top.
2) via OTA : 4.2 is a 16x9 SD image broadcast fullscreen, and 4.3 Universal Sports has the black band across the top.

OTA, 4.3 is definitely not fine. It has had the black bar across the top for over a year plus, so I don't think the recent transition of 4.2 to widescreen played a part.

For 4.2 OTA, sounds like your TV doesn't know that it is anamorphic widescreen.

For 4.3, the fact that a "cable" channel and OTA both have the VBI bar is what I was looking for.


I wouldn't have expected a change to 4.2 to affect 4.3. So, why haven't you complained to WRC about 4.3?

I plan to. Until recently, I didn't know if it was a Universal Sports problem, or local affiliate problem. When I visited my brother in a different market, his US looked normal, and that clued me in.

I will call, and reference your original post about the VBI and see if I get anywhere. Thanks for your help.

I'm pretty sure WJLAs flexicoder is configured wrong. The "Blurry" thing is happening during the game right now