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Dual use HTPC / Family PC

post #1 of 33
1/26/07 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Hi,

My home pc just died and I am going to replace it. I thought gee this might be a good time to replace that horrible old Prismiq media server and build a HTPC.

What I am hoping to do is to keep the PC in the guest room / office which shares a wall with my Home Theater. I would like to run a DVI to HDMI cable to my Sharp Aquos 42" LCD tv at 1080p as well as digital audio out to my HK receiver. I will be wanting to serve music, pictures, and video to the HT. The video would be mostly rips of DVDs and eventually HD content at 1080p. Maybe some gaming in the future.

However the PC will not be dedicated to HT, it would be used as a general family PC internet browsing, email, taxes, office products nothing too intensive. So in the office I would have the keyboard and mouse and crappy dell 19 lcd monitor served by the same PC. Will this work well? Or am I trying to do too much on one machine? Here are the list of parts I am thinking of ordering from newegg.


Thermaltake Bach Media Lab VB8000SNS Silver Aluminum / Steel ATX Desktop Computer Case - Retail


Western Digital Caviar SE WD800JD 80GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM


Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM


ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce SPP 100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail


Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC ATX 430W Power Supply - Retail


OCZ Enhanced Latency 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model OCZ4001024ELDC-K - Retail


AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 2.0GHz Socket 939 Processor Model ADA3800BVBOX - Retail


Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 SP2b w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM

I am also looking for a good RF remote control for the HTPC which will be behind a wall.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. It has been at least 4-5 years since I built my own PC and I have not done a great deal of research.

Thanks,
B
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post #2 of 33
1/26/07 at 4:12pm
"eventually HD content at 1080p"

Go core2duo, vastly superior in every way and for hddvd or blueray you will need it, the athlon x2 you chose won't cut it and socket 939 is dead, you won't have an upgrade path. ddr 400 ram is obsolete too. You aren't saving enough to justify buying obsolete parts that can't handle your future desire of 1080p hd.


What about a video card?

I hate to see anyone spending $50(with shipping) for an 80G drive when 320 is $90 with free ship. It's just a much better deal even if you don't think you need more than the 500 and a small os drive.

Compare to what other recent posts on this same subject are buying. You can get c2d for the same money if you shop smart. Do your kids never play games? Might as well, free demo's are everywhere and they'll love it even if all they get is the demo's. You are choosing very capable parts anyway. If so, get a video card not onboard video even if you just buy a geforce 6600gt fanless or etc.

Look for quiet fans/parts.

Might as well get all you can for your money even if you think you don't need some things it just makes sense.

A cheap and suprisingly capable RF remote would be a Logitech Cordless Rumblepad 2 game controller. ($20 on ebay for a refurb) With a free driver it acts like a mouse and has 14 dedicated buttons. Again, the kids would love you and it would prove it's not just a toy for you.


Troy
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post #3 of 33
1/26/07 at 4:38pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the advice, I had selected a 256 MB nVidia video card, dont know how I removed it from the cart.

Which Intel c2d would you recommend? For HD-DVD or Blueray, which is definitely going to be a future upgrade is something like this (Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E4300 - Retail) sufficient?

Also, as much as I like newegg, it is difficult to tell which components run quieter than others. Could you recommend a good site for purchasing HTPC equipment?

Thanks.
B
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post #4 of 33
1/26/07 at 4:47pm
Buy at newegg, read at silentpcreview.com
e4300 c2d would be fine with a mild overclock. (easy to do just a bios setting, and no risk to that model chip)

Troy
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post #5 of 33
1/26/07 at 5:06pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your input, I greatly appreciate it. If I am planning on keeping the PC in a different room from my home theater, is pc or component noise really going to be that much of an issue?

Also what is your opinion on trying to have a dual use computer to act as a family PC in the office, but run DVI/HDMI cable and digital audio to the home theater? Will I run into issues "resetting" the video settings if I am always turning the TV off and on while keeping the PC running?

-B
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post #6 of 33
1/26/07 at 5:18pm
I always like my pc's to be quiet even if it's just an office pc, that's up to you I guess.

No it's pretty easy to get it set up to serve both purposes in two rooms. I would add a good bluetooth wireless keyboard and remote though (logitech) and just use those rather than a remote. They have a 30' range and it would just be easier and better to move them back and forth than to have to run to the pc when you need a keyboard for something a remote doesn't offer. This way you'll be able to use it as a full blown pc in either room and browse from the couch etc too, not just access media functions.

The logitech game controller I mentioned has a good range too, and it's the best controller out for all around use for the kids, so you'd be set for wireless control. You could always add a remote too but I don't have a reccomendation for you on that for RF.

There are three threads a week or more here on this topic and silent parts and core2duo's if you just look in the previous pages here.

Troy
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post #7 of 33
1/26/07 at 7:14pm
As pcCinema said, Socket 939 is dead and there is no upgrade path. So options are:
  • Choose Core 2 Duo E4300 ($163) or E6600 and a motherboard with mild overclocking options. This will serve you for the next couple of years.
  • Choose an AM2 chip and a Socket AM2 motherboard. In this case you have two options:
    • Buy a high-end AM2 chip such as Athlon 64 X2 5200+ Windsor (89W; $289) or X2 5000+ Brisbane (65W; not available yet). This will last fine for a couple of years.
    • Buy a cheap AM2 chip, e.g. Athlon 64 3000+ Orleans ($70), right now and upgrade to a powerful AM2+ (Q3 2007) or AM3 (2008) chip later (it will compatible with the AM2 motherboard). AM2+ chips may supass substatially Core 2 Duo.
Needless to say the first option is more viable for most users. In either case memory is DDR2. Thermaltake TR2 is pretty loud and should be avoided.
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post #8 of 33
1/26/07 at 8:24pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks for everyone's feedback. Based on comments and some more research here is what I am currently thinking...


SILVERSTONE LASCALA SST-LC13-S Silver Aluminum front panel, 1.0mm SECC body ATX Desktop Computer Case - Retail



2 x Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM



MSI NX7600GT-VT2D256E GeForce 7600GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail



IN WIN PowerMan IP-P410Q3-2/20+4P ATX 410W Power Supply - OEM


G.SKILL 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model F2-6400PHU2-1GBNR - Retail


DFI INFINITY 975X LGA 775 Intel 975X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail


Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe 1.86GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E6300 - Retail


Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 SP2b w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM


I really wanted to keep the system under 1K, but this puts me just over, oh well.

-B
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post #9 of 33
1/26/07 at 10:27pm
That motherboard seems spendy for it's limited features. Take a peek at the Asus Deluxe series if you're in that price range anway. It comes with a remote control and remote receiver (not sure it it's RF or what), supports way more ide and sata devices and has a couple raid controllers, dual giga lan, built in wi-fi, much better audio, and comes with everything other boards charge extra for like all the headers for front audio ports and etc etc.

The power supply you chose only has one SATA power connector and the specs seem low.

I didn't mean for you to go down in hard drive capacity, I was trying to get you in the range of the MOST capacity dollar for dollar. I guess it depends on if you are going to store lots of dvd's or video on this machine. I would still spend the extra $20 ea for 320G drives or just run on a single 500G and add another later as needed.

If you need to cut money from it I'm wondering why the $100 HTPC style case that doesn't even come with a power supply If it's going in an office next door anyway. You could save on the case and having to buy a seperate power supply if need be and cut back to one hard drive.

Don't forget to figure in the cost of the bluetooth keyboard and mouse if going that route. They aren't cheap but it sure will be worth it.

I would have gone with the e4300 chip too, on a cheaper motherboard with 667 ram if I needed to save more money. It overclocks easier and better for less money.

Troy
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post #10 of 33
1/27/07 at 6:49am
Choosing E6300 over E4300 is not a good idea unless you need the support for VT. The E4300 core is physically almost identical with the E6300 core. The only difference (apart from VT) is that E4300's multiplier is locked to 9 and E6300 to 7.

To achive 3.0GHz with E4300, FSB needs to be raised to 3000MHz/9 = 333MHz, that is easy for many motherboards with overclocking options, and DDR2-667 is enough (333MHz x 2 = 667MHz).

On the other hand, to achive 3.0GHz with E6300, FSB needs to be raised to 3000MHz/7 = 429MHz. So you need to choose a motherboard carefully and you will have to raise the NB voltage, that will cause an extra heat output and give a stress to the motherboard. Moreover the memory clockrate needs to be DDR2-857 (429MHz x 2 = 857MHz).
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post #11 of 33
1/27/07 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Choosing E6300 over E4300 is not a good idea unless you need the support for VT. The E4300 core is physically almost identical with the E6300 core. The only difference (apart from VT) is that E4300's multiplier is locked to 9 and E6300 to 7.

To achive 3.0GHz with E4300, FSB needs to be raised to 3000MHz/9 = 333MHz, that is easy for many motherboards with overclocking options, and DDR2-667 is enough (333MHz x 2 = 667MHz).

On the other hand, to achive 3.0GHz with E6300, FSB needs to be raised to 3000MHz/7 = 429MHz. So you need to choose a motherboard carefully and you will have to raise the NB voltage, that will cause an extra heat output and give a stress to the motherboard. Moreover the memory clockrate needs to be DDR2-857 (429MHz x 2 = 857MHz).

Out of curiosity, and using this example of both chips running at 3.0GHz, in what circumstances would the faster fsb and memory speed of the e6300 actually be advantageous? Gaming, perhaps?
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post #12 of 33
1/27/07 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by heaphus View Post

Out of curiosity, and using this example of both chips running at 3.0GHz, in what circumstances would the faster fsb and memory speed of the e6300 actually be advantageous? Gaming, perhaps?

Definitely gaming, and several other applications. Benchmarks:

AnancTech - FSB Bottlenecks: Is 1333MHz Necessary?

X-bit labs - Fast DDR2 SDRAM - only for overclockers?

E4300's multiplier is unlocked downward (x6 to x9). So there is no disadvantage as you can always lower multiplier if necessary.
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post #13 of 33
1/27/07 at 12:42pm
Thread Starter 
First off, let me just say how helpful this board has been to me. I greatly appreciate all of the feedback and shared knowledge.

Here is my latest shopping list. I have taken the advice here and I might OC as needed, also decided to up my video card to ensure I have HDCP and have gone down on the storage to stay under $1K. I already have two external 300GB USB 2.0 drives, and I can add more SATA drives at a later time as needed.


What do you guys think? Am I there?




Antec LifeStyle SONATA II Piano Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 450Watt SmartPower 2.0 Power Supply - Retail


Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD2500KS 250GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM


MSI NX7900GT-VT2D256E-HD GeForce 7900GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail


Patriot Signature 1GB (2 x 512MB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model PSD21G667KH - Retail


ASUS P5N-E SLI LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 650i SLI ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail


Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Allendale 1.8GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80557E4300 - Retail


Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 SP2b w/Upgrade Coupon for Vista - OEM
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post #14 of 33
1/27/07 at 1:09pm
Looks good.

I guess if I were you I would splurge on the htpc case though, what the heck, the tower is $100 anyway.

As soon as I sell my current pentium D I'll be buying pretty much the same things.

Troy
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post #15 of 33
1/27/07 at 1:18pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcCinema View Post

Looks good.

I guess if I were you I would splurge on the htpc case though, what the heck, the tower is $100 anyway.

As soon as I sell my current pentium D I'll be buying pretty much the same things.

Troy

Just after you talk me out of the htpc case, now you suggest I buy it?!?!?!

I am still on the fence about it, but something tells me it's not as nice as it seems to be. But who knows maybe this PC will live with the home theater someday?? You never know.

Thanks again for all of your help and suggestions. It has been about 5+ years since I built my own PC and it's amazing how much you dont know anymore.

-B
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post #16 of 33
1/27/07 at 1:31pm
Yes I flip flopped. You chose a tower that was $100 anyway, Not much savings.

Troy
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post #17 of 33
1/27/07 at 1:48pm
Thread Starter 
Well I suppose the big difference over the previous case is that this case has a superior power supply over the previous one selected.
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post #18 of 33
1/27/07 at 11:46pm
Make sure the BIOS that comes with the motherboard supports E4300. If BIOS does not support E4300, the system may not POST and you will need another Intel chip to flash BIOS.
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post #19 of 33
1/28/07 at 6:26am
I have to put in a vote for two separate PCs. I have a office PC and a HTPC and just don't see how one PC would do it all, especially if you have kids. Just imagine you and your wife are watching something off the PC, recorded TV or DVD, and your kids are in the other room and want to play games. How does this work? The PC cannot have two separate video and audio outputs. And trust me once you get it up and running you are going to be using it as a HTPC more than you ever imagined.

Your bes bet might be to get a xbox 360 as a media center extender and HD DVD player. Although I still prefer two separate PCs. By the way I don't say this lightly because I have a ton of money to spend, both of mine are budget builds and meet the minimum needs of each application.

Dual use PCs are dual use serial not dual use parallel.
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post #20 of 33
1/28/07 at 8:15am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ams123 View Post

I have to put in a vote for two separate PCs. I have a office PC and a HTPC and just don't see how one PC would do it all, especially if you have kids. Just imagine you and your wife are watching something off the PC, recorded TV or DVD, and your kids are in the other room and want to play games. How does this work? The PC cannot have two separate video and audio outputs. And trust me once you get it up and running you are going to be using it as a HTPC more than you ever imagined.

Your bes bet might be to get a xbox 360 as a media center extender and HD DVD player. Although I still prefer two separate PCs. By the way I don't say this lightly because I have a ton of money to spend, both of mine are budget builds and meet the minimum needs of each application.

Dual use PCs are dual use serial not dual use parallel.

You are right, luckily my kids are still quite young and only my daughter uses the PC at all and it's for light web browsing, so I still have some time before I need to worry about having to acquiesce to her demands of PC time.

And once I have the family used to having a HTPC and we find that the dual use becomes a problem, then I guess I will be able to get spousal approval for a second PC.

BTW, I ordered all of the components last night from newegg.com and I will post updates on how the process goes here when I have put it all together. Since I do not have a HD-DVD or blueray drive yet, does anyone know it there are publicaly accessible downloads of some HD content for testing? Not full movies mind you but just some demo clips to see how well the PC handles it.

-B
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post #21 of 33
1/28/07 at 8:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonsainola View Post

You are right, luckily my kids are still quite young and only my daughter uses the PC at all and it's for light web browsing, so I still have some time before I need to worry about having to acquiesce to her demands of PC time.

And once I have the family used to having a HTPC and we find that the dual use becomes a problem, then I guess I will be able to get spousal approval for a second PC.

BTW, I ordered all of the components last night from newegg.com and I will post updates on how the process goes here when I have put it all together. Since I do not have a HD-DVD or blueray drive yet, does anyone know it there are publicaly accessible downloads of some HD content for testing? Not full movies mind you but just some demo clips to see how well the PC handles it.

-B

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...tshowcase.aspx
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post #22 of 33
1/28/07 at 8:35am
I am in a similar situation where I want to get a computer for HTPC and regular use. I will be the only user and I'm not a gamer.

Is there anything I need to pay attention to for the video card other than having dual DVI output? I have a 780p LCD tv.
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post #23 of 33
1/28/07 at 9:47am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Make sure the BIOS that comes with the motherboard supports E4300. If BIOS does not support E4300, the system may not POST and you will need another Intel chip to flash BIOS.


And the saga continues....

so the Mobo i selected does not support the E4300 cpu.

Thanks to newegg.com for voiding my order and I am starting over again.

-B
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post #24 of 33
1/28/07 at 10:50am
I was on the 1k budget myself and I pretty much have it nailed right now. I spent a little less on my processor and a little more on my mobo. I will go over the 1k mark with peripherals and the extra harddrives I want, but a functioning system is right at 1k.

I went with the AM2 chipset. I got the 3800+ for a buck 35 at newegg and I dropped another 2 bills on the mobo. I got the Asus M2N32 SLI deluxe wifi. It's pretty nice and both pieces have gotten incredible reviews.

If my computer wasn't going in the Theater room, I would have gotten a tower. The HTPC case is crammed with a full ATX mobo.
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post #25 of 33
1/28/07 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
I went just over $1K on my pc, but with mail in rebates I will come back under 1K. I, of course, am not counting wireless controller or the cables from monoprice to hook it up to my home theater. Those would push me over my budget, so they will become separate line items for submission to the spousal budget committee.

-B
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post #26 of 33
1/28/07 at 11:02am
To be honest, I thought I would be able to put a computer together for like 500 bucks. As it turns out it's more like a thousand, so that puts me in the 1k budget.
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post #27 of 33
1/28/07 at 11:20am
You all know about the e4300/msi mobo combo at fry's now for $149 right?
(look for the thread with e4300 in the title here.)

Heat sink fan not included and the mobo won't work with the chip without flashing with another earlier model chip first. And the mobo is a piece of ____. But still...
Off to fry's I go...

Troy
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post #28 of 33
1/28/07 at 12:38pm
I just read through two threads on the ASUS 650i board and a few users reported the board works fine with E4300 out of the box (and runs at 3.6GHz). I am sorry for confusion.

AnandTech Forums - The Unofficial ASUS 650i SLI Board Thread

Xtreme Systems - Asus P5N-E SLI small review

You should read through them before ordering the board. Two other 650i boards will be released in February and March (MSI and GIGABYTE) that could be better than ASUS (e.g. why no heatsink on SB?).
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post #29 of 33
1/30/07 at 9:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

I just read through two threads on the ASUS 650i board and a few users reported the board works fine with E4300 out of the box (and runs at 3.6GHz). I am sorry for confusion.

AnandTech Forums - The Unofficial ASUS 650i SLI Board Thread

Xtreme Systems - Asus P5N-E SLI small review

You should read through them before ordering the board. Two other 650i boards will be released in February and March (MSI and GIGABYTE) that could be better than ASUS (e.g. why no heatsink on SB?).

No worries, I ended up ordering the ASUS P5B Deluxe motherboard. Everything arrived today (gotta love newegg). Once I get everything up and running I will post my impressions, although it will still be a while until I can hook it up to my TV, newegg ships out much faster than monoprice apparently.

-B
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post #30 of 33
1/31/07 at 6:45pm
Thread Starter 
Ok, so I've recieved all of the PC components, cables from monoprice, and even the logitech cordless rumble pad 2! So far it's been great. PC screams, I have only tried on game (that came with the vid card), but I have not had the chance to try HD content yet (wife is watching American Idol instead of letting me play with the TV)

I have one quick question for pcCinema, do you know how I can get the logitech gamepad to act as a cordless mouse?

-B
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