"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 5

It should. OTOH, it will depend somewhat on what version of Audyssey you have. The Pro used with the SEQ makes adjustments dependent on the crossover you select and, once made, is fixed. In practice, it made little difference to my ears.

Perhaps 2.1 is closer to optimal (objective sense) than 2.0 configuration.

Hmm... this could work:

1. Run the sub's own parametric EQ calibration.
2. Then run the receiver's Audyssey calibration.
3. Check if the receiver did correction in the sub's LF range.
4. In case it did, tweak the sub's parametric EQ, with the intention of eliminating the correction by the receiver's Audyssey.
5. Re-run the receiver's Audyssey calibration and loop back to step 3 until the receiver stops making correction to the sub's LF range.

With 6-8 microphone positions, that might take a while but it would be a way to do it.

sounds like a plan. Boy, i'm liking this unit more and more with each post. It's just sooooo darned expensive...the pro unit that is.

How does Audyssey compare to yammy's ypao?

And it looks like the "pro" unit can't even be used by the owner to re-callibrate. The owner has to call in an installer to do any recallibration. That's ridiculous.

Well. Takes the fun out of it. I am out of here. Thank you all for your valuable information.

I believe the reason Kal is hearing little difference between different crossover points is that Audyssey's algorithms for the sub-to-satellite splice work so seamlessly (especially in the Pro implementation) in light of the often wildly disparate distances between the sub(s) and the satellites in real world installations.

In my first interview with Tom and Chris in December '04 Tom pretty much admitted that THX's fixed-slope 4th order low pass for the sub with second order high pass for the sats was the best THX technology of the past could do at the time. Fixed slopes did work for most theater installations because the THX set-up crew could group the .1 channel and the front LCR channels in the correct (close) orientation behind the theater screen and then tweak the relative sub's and sat's relative positions via sophisicated measurement analysis.

In the home this close sub-to-sat orientation is seldom possible. And consumers certainly don't have the technical knowledge or specialized measurement equipment required to perform this critical task (when using fixed-slope sub and sat systems). IMHO Audyssey's frequency and phase manipulation of crossover slope shapes at the critical sub-to-sat splice appears to be one of the least understood and most under-appreciated aspects of their technology.

Receivers with sub-to-sat crossover capability use fixed slope crossovers so it is highly doubtful (except by sheer luck) that a seamless sub-to-sat splice such as the ASEq Pro is capable of could be achieved. But if you can't measure your result you might talk yourself into believing....

The five steps listed above would not to address the sub-to-sat splice at all. From experience with several Audyssey Pro and sub configurations what I've found best is to:

a) Place sub(s) in their locations (allowed by room layout and wife).
b) If an Infinity RABOS or Velodyne with EQ software is used run software of each sub individually with mic set at the sweet spot. Fix results after best individual frequency response is achieved.
c) Run Audyssey Pro and sent final results into the ASEq for Audyssey's optimal slope shape and phase massage.

Patrick Hart

Agreed but I would point out that the ASEq does not implement the actual crossover filters; that must be done in the pre/pro. OTOH, if those filters play by the THX rules, the ASEq correction anticipates them.


Again, agreed.

Several upcoming (July) Denon receiver's will have software very similar to Audyssey's Sound Equalizer on board. However, this software will only be able to be accessed by a certified Audyssey installer who will do the set-up.

For Denon receiver's under $3000 SRP each individual Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro "key" from Audyssey will cost $150. For Denon receiver's over $3000 each individual Audyssey key will cost $300. This key will be tied electronically to an imbedded (in the receiver) electronic serial number which is transmitted to Audyssey and logged into their data base.

(This information is from Matt Good who taught Denon's CI semimar at Electronic Stockroom (a Denon distributor in Van Nuys, CA) on March 13th.)

To maintain the Audyssey Pro system performance Audyssey closely monitors all installations via their database at their Los Angeles headquarters. When you have a technology whose calibrated, very high resolution audio performance is so intimately and critically dependent on the consumer's room, it's speaker locations and its seating locations this is the solution the folks at Audyssey felt must to be implemented to maintain the system's performance and integrity.

Patrick Hart

So is THX the design basis of the Audyssey?

Wow. That's a lot to take in. I'm just not sure what to do with that statement. Are you saying that the initial calibration is etched in stone in the mother data base at Audyssee and if you want to recalibrate, you have to notify them and pay them anywhere from $150 to $300? Please tell me no. What if you buy new equipment, move equpment around, buy new furniture, redecorate you HT, move your HT to another room, buy a new house, move to a new apartment? These are not anomolies. They're things people do everyday. And with us on the forum, we're changing our systems around all the time. I guess I don't get it. Please clarify.

Kal,

"Agreed but I would point out that the ASEq does not implement the actual crossover filters"

Couldn't you make the case that since Audyssey can modify phase and amplitude in the XO region, that the net XO characteristics are determined by it?

Patrick,

Thanks for that very interesting info on Audyssey keys, but I too am not clear on what it means and would appreciate elaboration.

Thanks

i have found that as well which i have to admit is somewhat puzzling--nothing changes in the room and i have never got the same results. shouldn't it be at least CLOSE in it's inerpretation?

i think this is what you meant but if not my apologies.

patrick

I have been told by Audyssey that even sounds outside the room can affect the resuts i.e. washing machine, dryer, truck outside etc.

Yes. There is no evidence about how much processing power will be incorporated into these AVRs yet.

I would say that the the net XO characteristics are influenced by it. The actual crossover, in the case of using the external ASEq, is still in the pre/pro. I do not know the situation for the AVR versions.

It is. Remember, even with multiple measurements per session, small position changes of the microphone can move it into/out of nulls, etc.

Yes. I usually turn off the HVAC during measurements.

sounds like the typical sound measuring time when everything gets tuned off except the HT system, including HVAC and fridge, if it's close.

Here's a bit of clarification I received in an email from Audyssey's Mike Thuresson immediately after he saw your quiry>>

"A point to clarify about the MultEQ Pro license keys the installer purchases for the Denon AVRs that work with MultEQ Pro: each key is tied to the MAC address of that receiver and allows unlimited Audyssey calibrations of that unit. So if the customer moves homes, changes the room, etc., the installer does not have to repurchase a key. It's up to the installer to work out a price with the customer on the return visit and recalibration. Feel free to post that as a response on the forum"

Yes, that makes the utmost sense.


So, if one of my kids want to move his seat back or forward by 6 inches or a foot, and I want a recallibration done, I'll have to call in the installer. Somehow, I think that a recallibration is going to run at least $100, probably more like $150 (I live in a high-cost town, and my piano tuner for instance charges $150). Then, if my wife decides she wants to put a tapestry on one of the walls and I want to recallibrate, out comes the installer again, for another $150 or whatever. Then, she decides she doesn't like the tapestry in that room after all....another $150.

I guess Audyssey has made the decision that by being "business-friendly" to installers, the installers are more likely to push Audyssey.

But in my case the policy might just turn me away from a Denon with Audyssey and toward some alternative like Yamaha. We'll see what's on the market toward yearend.

I just don't get this. Is it possible for someone from Audyssey to please come on the forum and explain this. You're obviously paying attention to the threads and we have lot's questions for you. We promise not to bite.

I really don't think Audyssey was aiming this at the DIY market-not the people who would frequent this forum. More the people who would tend to have a higher end set-up that is a set and forget type thing

IMHO Audyssey should provide the option for DIY types to purchase the installer kit.

To some extent, I would agree with you, especially when it comes to the Pro unit. But the problem is, the only folks I see reviewing this stuff and really taking an interest in it ARE the folks frequenting the forums. Plus, l would think there would be more Denon units with Audyssey in the homes of forum browsers than anywhere else. Maybe that's just my perspective though.

I am not sure if that is there motive, just my impressions from training I went to. They seemed interested in suggestions so I would suggest you contact them via their web site. Perhaps Patrick can shed some light on their decision to go through a dealer installed network.

Just to add a little to those who have not read Kal's review. There are NO controls on the unit itself other than bypass or engage. That is it so it really does need the installer kit with a PC. I personally would prefer that you be able to have more than one "curve" available (flat, Audyssey 1, etc) but I got the impression that they believe that the curve selected by the installer should fit the room and not the material.

I think most of the market for the ASEq is invisible to us because it consists of those with large custom-installed systems. Perhaps some of the installers on this board might comment on this.

"IMHO Audyssey should provide the option for DIY types to purchase the installer kit."

I can see where Audyssey might be concerned about technical support costs if selling to end users, but from what I've read it doesn't sound that complex to set up.

Would you agree, Kal?

Definitely. An informed and dedicated consumer/user would likely get results equal or superior to those obtained by the typical installer working on the clock.

I really think that allowing end-users to buy the install kit would help Audyssey's business, not hurt it.

I think the kit sells for $325. The "typical" HT buyer is going to prefer having a professional install, because it will save him trouble, and probably cost less.

Whereas the "dedicated" (as Kal put it) DIYer might be willing to spend the $325, and more time, to know that he has done the procedure "right", and to retain the flexibility to re-callibrate without additional cost for different furniture positions, new furniture, new decorations or room treatments, etc.

Some forum members clearly don't even want the Audyssey if they can't do their own callibration. Witness a post just yesterday on this thread, post #126....after learning that an installer would need to be called in to do any recallibration, he posted "Well. Takes the fun out of it. I am out of here."

How many other customers might Audyssey lose with its "installer-only" policy on the Audyssey Sound Equalizer and the forthcoming Denon products? And how many might it gain, both directly and indirectly, if it allowed end-users to buy the install kit? By indirectly gain customers, I mean that people like those on this forum, who given the chance to callibrate themselves, would purchase an Audyssey (or Denon/Audyssey), and then spread the good word about Audyssey to friends and readers of this and other forums.