"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 418

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

Kal, do you use the inverted triangle method in the Audyssey FAQ?

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

I don't know what that is but my situation is that there is only one small row of seats on one couch. I usually use the same 8 mic positions now. 3-1-2 across the couch, 4-5-6 a bit in front of it and 7-8 a bit lateral to and a bit higher than 3-1-2. Often lately, I add an additional measurement at position 1 to bias the results a bit for my seat.

The first microphone position must always be in the center of the listening area. Then we recommend moving the mic about two feet to the left of that first position for measurement two and two to the right of the original spot for measurement three.

If you are running MultEQ or MultEQ XT you should use all six or eight measurements available. The next three should be taken about two feet in front of the first three. The final two measurements (if available) should be about one foot to the left and right of the first central measurement and about one foot forward to form a triangle.

You should avoid taking measurements that are too far off to the side and outside the front Left and Right loudspeakers even if there are seats there. These measurements will suffer from a drop in high frequencies and can cause the room correction filters to compensate for that unnecessarily.

Also avoid taking measurements too close to the back wall even if the only listening seats are up against the wall. Move the mic at least one foot from the back wall to avoid the bass build-up that happens there.

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

Here is the FAQ setup text:


So your mic setup is like this? (two spaces = 2', one space = 1')

I'm trying to figure out what I will try out on my next group of measurements when I get time next week...

Originally Posted by QueueCumber

Here is the FAQ setup text:

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

Official? What does that mean?

Comparison of Audyssey with 8033: http://stereophile.com/musicintherou...34/index1.html

Originally Posted by aseer

Am I correct that your comparison is effectively against the Audyssey MultEQ Pro setup available to the SEQ? Do you have a feel for whether someone using a standard Onkyo or Denon MultEQ XT system without a pro calibration would benefit from adding the 8033?

Your plots are great, it was the first time I saw a review doing a side by side.

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

This was done on the Integra's MultEQ XT although with the Pro kit. So, it has the same resolution as any MultEQ XT setup. I use the Pro for the better mic and more setup options although none of the latter were exercised in this comparison. Thus, I think one can expect similar results with the stock MultEQ XT setup.

Thanks. As a professional scientist, I like to see the data even though I trust my ears. If there's no discrepancy, I am happy.

Originally Posted by pepar

giomania et al,

Should this - The first microphone position must always be in the center of the listening area. - be slightly re-worded to say that the first position should always be in the listening area and on the centerline between the left and right front speakers?

I'm trying to think of setups where the center of the listening area is not centered between the left and right speakers.

Originally Posted by SoundofMind

I suggest you download the latest version of the Guide for your reference, as some of the wording and illustrations have been updated by our most dedicated giomania(thanks). The mic pattern is more of a rectangle shape, but I believe Chris has indicated that the exact pattern is not so crucial as is the idea of sampling in a pattern that envelopes the main listening position. I think it would be helpful to suggest in the guide that the primary listening position (PLP) be at (or as close as possible to) the sweet spot, "the center of the listening area". My latest Audyssey rerun included some measurements behind PLP, putting a blanket on my leather recliner and more attention to assuring the mic is vertical. With the valuable suggestions on this thread, each run gives me better results.
My pattern:
(one space = 1')
4 5 6
3 1 2
I can't get the spacing right in the post illustration but 7 is 1 space below and between 3 & 1, 8 is below and between 2 & 1.

Originally Posted by noah katz

"Like Chris previously mentioned, the microphones with the flat shape (hockey
puck) are of imprecise measurements, due to their early reflections by the
plastic contour."

Chris, is this really an issue?

It looks like the plastic housing has been carefully shaped to reflect sound away from the mike.

Would it help to cover the housing with a piece of 1/4" or 1/2" thick felt with a hole in the middle?

Originally Posted by WrJr

Hi Nordo thanks for the info but I have allready done what the setup guide has said. I've read it and even printed the whole thing out to have with me during the setup. As far as moving stuff around I cant do much about it because of the way the living room is...the front door is in a weird spot and right in the middle of the wall. If I move the sofa out or the speakers away people will not be able to get in the door lol. So thats why I have it all setup the way I do. The part that confuses me the most is the mic setup on the posistions when it is doing the calibration. This love seat is small so its hard for me to figure out where to take a mic posistion from. Oh and the front speakers are about 5 inches from the rear and side wall...the manual on the speakers suggests at least a few inches away if you gotta be near one so thats the best I could do. I could move the sofa out temporarily but it would have to go right back up against the wall afterwords. I did not do that because I thought it would defeat the purpose of the auto cal. Thanks again

Originally Posted by audyssey

Hi Noah,

Yes, it is a big issue. The puck mics had the wrong shape and there is nothing that can be done to make them better. We finally convinced manufacturers to stop using them...The biggest problem was that the precision of the 1/4" mic capsule was compromised by adding a 2" plastic puck around it thus greatly affecting the high frequency performance and also the true omnidirectional nature of the mic.

Absoprtion on the housing with a hole in the middle doesn't help. The biggest problem is that the sound arriving from the rear is attenuated relative to that arriving from the front and the mic is not a true omni because of that.

Originally Posted by Nordo

Chris,
I probably know the answer already, but is there any possibility that the new mics will be available for older receivers, complete with firmware upgrade for the different calibration, etc?

Originally Posted by PerfKnee

Many thanks for posting your results. Do you have wood or carpet floors? I would think that for a person with wood floors, having a coffee table with stuff on it might improve the sound by breaking up the reflections off the wood floors. But a person with carpet might not have such reflections as much and therefore might be better off without the coffee table if feasible. Of course this is pure conjecture on my part.

Chris, I'm curious if Audyssey corrects in the time domain for late reflections (e.g. higher frequencies bouncing off a coffee table or wood floor). Obviously it would correct frequency response to whatever degree the coffee table or wood floor changed it, but my understanding is that audyssey not only corrects frequency response but also does some processing affecting the time domain, cancelling some reflections perhaps. The fact that you have never expressed concern about the person being in the room near the mike during calibration makes me think perhaps audyssey somehow avoids correcting for late reflections off the person.

Originally Posted by Nordo

Leaving everthing where it is, Audyssey will try to compensate for all the anomalies of the room. I just like to give Audyssey a hand by trying to make the room and speaker/seating positions as close to the ideal as possible, thereby letting Audyssey do more of a fine tuning job than a massive correction job.

However, leaving things where they are, when taking tests on and around the sofa against the wall, take your first tests at head/ear positions (with the first in the centre head position). Hopefully these will be at least 12" from the rear wall. Audyssey will try to compensate for the increased low frequency pressure zone near the wall.

My feeling is that your remaining test locations should NOT be too far in front of the wall. Say, only 12" maximum in front of the head positions. If you move too far from the wall and the head positions, this will reduce Audyssey's compensation of the low frequency gain near the wall and you will probably end up with a boomy result when sitting on the sofa.

This should give you a good setup in spite of the nearness of the sofa to the wall. However, you will also find that the result Audyssey gives you will be lacking in bass if you move away from the sofa.

Chris may like to comment on this approach.

Originally Posted by LarryChanin

Hi Bob,

I agree with you that Andrew's courteous remarks concerning alternative microphones to the standard Audyssey microphones are certainly relevant to this thread, even if the subject does interest everyone.

However, in my opinion Andrew has failed to make his case either in this thread, or in the Audyssey measurement with non-standard mic thread that he started in response to a request from Jeff (QueueCumber).

Larry

Originally Posted by zadam

Hi,

I've been looking into a particular subwoofer and came across a review that said because of the peak in Frequency Response (FR) at 60-65Hz, he used a parametric equalizer to tweak the curve, resulting in much better performance from the subwoofer.

(See last graph in review here: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...er-1-2005.html

My question is: Can/will Audyssey MultiEQ (I have a Denon 789) flatten the FR also, making this a usable subwoofer?

Thanks, Adam.

Originally Posted by Lordoftherings

I do have my floor carpeted wall to wall. And it's a pretty thick carpet too, so very absorbant...

Your assumption is very valid. And Audyssey is correcting for the response by the microphone, furniture or not. But by starting with a good sounding room, it will help Audyssey job to perform better results. Don't you just love it, help Audyssey and Audyssey will help you back!

Originally Posted by Lordoftherings

Hi Larry,

Glad that you find ALBERT (not Andrew, by the way) competant to this thread
and with some interesting relevance about Audyssey measurements.

As far as measurements and graphs with curves, I am not an expert. All I found captivating is the discussions between Albert, you and Chris; the three
main players. And I am learning a great deal more, so thanks to all of you.

I find it very positive learning in the end, and that's what it's all about.
I am my own judge of my interpretations; I keep what I believe is good for me
and I just discard the unecessary. But the process to getting there is what is
the true captivation. By being captivated, you search and experiment on your
own, and that's how you always improve.

Cheers,

_______ Bob

Originally Posted by LarryChanin

Hi Bob,

A more probable explanation for your preference is that you've become accustomed to habitually listening to the added distortion produced by the reflective coffee table over the more accurate response afforded by the better acoustics of the absorbent carpet.

In all likelihood you were helping Audyssey produce a more accurate response when the coffee table was removed, but you simply didn't have enough time to get used to the that type of sound.

Larry

Originally Posted by LarryChanin

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the correction. My sincere apologies to Albert, I'll correct my posting to avoid confusion.

So, based on your interpretations, do you plan to replace your standard microphone with a more expensive one, or have you discarded these microphone observations as unecessary?

Larry

Originally Posted by fyzziks

No, that's certainly not the case for your speakers at only 10-12 ft distance. Unless the phase relationships of radiation at different points on the ribbon are manipulated to change the radiation pattern, you should have a cylindrical wave coming off that tweeter at 10-12ft. It won't be perfect, due to diffraction off the baffle edges, but it should still be really good, and so the wavefronts should be parallel with a vertical mic orientation. It's only from very large distances that all finite sources look like point sources.

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

You type at the beginning and end of the text that you want displayed as-is.