"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 490

Originally Posted by batpig

This is the description in the AVR 1910 manual:

Reference Level Offset: Audyssey Dynamic EQ takes the standard film mixing level of 85 dB SPL during -20 dB FS input as its reference level. However, since standardization is lacking outside the film industry, the reference level of media contents may not be appropriate. In order to view such contents, Reference Level Offset of Dynamic EQ has available offsets of 5 dB, 10 dB and 15 dB.

- 0dB: Suitable for viewing movies.
- 5dB: Suitable for listening to classical music and other content mixed at a high level.
- 10dB: Suitable for listening to jazz and other audio sources with a wide dynamic range. Also suitable for viewing TV.
- 15dB: Suitable for listening to pop, rock music and other content with an extremely wide dynamic range.

(Chris, looks like you let Denon translate this to Japanese and then back again to "Denon-ese" ... only Denon could come up with a linguistic gem like "in order to view such contents" when discussing an audio feature )

Originally Posted by Mike_WI

I believe "transducer" = Buttkicker (etc) type of chair transducer.
(correct me if I'm wrong)

Mike

Originally Posted by bluesky636

Looks to me like Denon got things backwards, though.

Classical music typically has an "extremely wide dynamic range" whereas your typical rock recording is "mixed at a high level" with a very narrow dynamic range.

Or did things "get lost in translation?"

Originally Posted by allredp

Re-ran Audyssey a few weeks ago and loved the results after following scrupulously all the instructions for mic-placement, etc. here. I had added some bass traps and broadband absorption across my front wall, so I thought I'd re-run Audyssey.

Wow, the result was wonderful across the board until I hit scenes with ultra-low hz material. Those scenes are way too hot now for my Ultra.

For example, in Transformers where the choppers fly in at the start--now I'm getting room-rattling extension and power like I never have before. Also, Spiderman 3 with the spinning sand pit machine is just unbelievable. However, in both those movies where other scenes have lower hz stuff, the Ultra makes bad noises--it is clearly being over worked and it make those frightening (in a bad way) mechanical noises.

Honestly I like the overall effect on everything else except the sub 20hz scenes. BTW, I'm running my Ultra in 15hz mode, no room-compensation, in a 2,700 sq ft room (15' x 27' x 7.8'). My processor is the Onkyo 875 being used as a pre/pro.

The only thing I can figure is that there is some over-cooked boosting going on down in those lowest frequencies.

Earlier today another Ultra owner (with duals) reported having the same experience in another thread! I'm kind of relieved because I was worried I just needed to get another Ultra to compensate for the infrasonics.

I actually posted some weeks ago about the "hotness" of Transporter 3, but it turns out that everything I play which has very low hz material just overwhelms the sub.

Ideas? Solutions?

Originally Posted by bluesky636

Looks to me like Denon got things backwards, though.

Classical music typically has an "extremely wide dynamic range" whereas your typical rock recording is "mixed at a high level" with a very narrow dynamic range.

Or did things "get lost in translation?"

Originally Posted by Gary J

Well then, we'll look for proper accreditation in the literature.

Originally Posted by MACCA350

The only two options currently at hand that I can see are:

1) Use your subs built in subsonic filter and increase the slope(or implement one if it doesn't have one)

2) Don't use Audyssey

cheers

Originally Posted by allredp

...in a 2,700 sq ft room (15' x 27' x 7.8')....

Originally Posted by giomania

"We would like to thank members of the AVSForum Official Audyssey Thread. Specifically, Gary J, Pepar, Kal, and the guy with all those subs."



Disclaimer: The above statement was only meant as a joke. I do not know who really raised the issue in question.

Mark

Originally Posted by andyev

I have searched but I can't find the answer. I am looking at getting a new receiver and the audyssey feature is the huge selling point. It looks like it comes with a 12' cable. The problem is my receiver is 50' from the room and I need to run it through the house. Is it possible to buy a longer cable and audyssey still work? If so, what kind of cable would I need?

Originally Posted by pepar

A very good, well-shielded one. Alternatively, you could temporarily relocate your AVR to the room being measured.

Originally Posted by andyev

A very good well shielded what? What kind of cable? I could relocate the receiver but then I'd have to buy new speaker wire to run to the speakers as well as run a source to the receiver which would be a PITA. All my equipment is in an equipment closet on the other end of the house.

Thanks

Originally Posted by bluesky636

Looks to me like Denon got things backwards, though.

Classical music typically has an "extremely wide dynamic range" whereas your typical rock recording is "mixed at a high level" with a very narrow dynamic range.

Or did things "get lost in translation?"

Originally Posted by andyev

I have searched but I can't find the answer. I am looking at getting a new receiver and the audyssey feature is the huge selling point. It looks like it comes with a 12' cable. The problem is my receiver is 50' from the room and I need to run it through the house. Is it possible to buy a longer cable and audyssey still work? If so, what kind of cable would I need?

Thanks

Originally Posted by allredp

I appreciate your response--though I am not happy with the answer, eh.

At least I'm not the only one having this issue; you start to think the subwoofer gods have it in for you after a while!

Enjoy the day...

Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat

I've found that my current workaround is to not use Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume. I've been able to get acceptable bass management with MultEQ still on. If I turn on Dynamic EQ/volume I get the boost in the lower frequencies freaking out my sub. I could leave it on and lower the sub level as well as the LFE, but I lose too much bass this way.

I only have to do this with Blu-ray or HDDVD. I don't have the same issues with TV or DVDs.

I still believe there is an issue. I don't know why it would boost the lower frequencies so much. Because it can't be reproduced with the same equipment at Audyssey I think the room enviornment plays a large role in this issue. But in my mind Audyssey should not be boosting those frequencies anyways.

But in the end I like the HD Audio better without the Dynamic EQ / volume and I'm glad I can still use it for TV. I still need a bigger sub!

Originally Posted by MACCA350

As I mentioned, the graphs I posted are without using Dynamic EQ/Vol. The increase in the sub 15Hz range has nothing to do with Dynamic EQ.

If you are interested in seeing a static graph of what Dynamic EQ does see here

If you are using Dynamic EQ and normally listen at lower than reference you will be compounding the low Hz increase relative to the midrange, but it's not the root cause and Dynamic EQ does not increase frequencies above reference.

The issue is that Audyssey MultEQ is increasing low Hz(below the -3db filter adjustment cut off).

cheers

Originally Posted by StimpsonJCat

I agree. But for my setup/environment I was able to achieve an acceptable level of bass management by just turning off Dynamic EQ. I guess the extra boost from Dynamic EQ was just enough to push my sub too far. I think the problem still exists and I have no real headroom (If I decide to crank it up I will still have an issue). But, for the level I listen to movies at turning off Dynamic EQ stops the sub issues and still gives me the bass I want. This is just a workaround that works in my setup for now...not a solution to the real problem.

Originally Posted by audyssey

This is not what we provided for their manual. It's all mixed up. Thanks for pointing it out--we have notified them...The settings shown are correct, but not the explanations.

Originally Posted by MACCA350

As I mentioned, the graphs I posted are without using Dynamic EQ/Vol. The increase in the sub 15Hz range has nothing to do with Dynamic EQ.

If you are interested in seeing a static graph of what Dynamic EQ does see here

If you are using Dynamic EQ and normally listen at lower than reference you will be compounding the low Hz increase relative to the midrange, but it's not the root cause and Dynamic EQ does not increase frequencies above reference.

The issue is that Audyssey MultEQ is increasing low Hz(below the -3db filter adjustment cut off).

cheers

Originally Posted by batpig

Like I said, you shouldn't have let them translate it to Japanese and then to Denon-ese

Originally Posted by BGLeduc

Dude, if Denon starts getting things right in their manuals, you will be out of a job!

How these huge companies can not afford to have a native English speaker on staff as a tech writer remains one of the minor mysteries of life.

Originally Posted by counsil

Agreed.

Dynamic EQ has nothing to do with it. At reference, Dynamic EQ on and off yield the same results. All that Dynamic EQ does is make my subs unhappy at a lower master volume.

I can reproduce the boosting in the teen Hz area over and over again. I have even tried moving my subs to 3 other acceptable locations in my room with the same boosting result. I used to think that room setup was the main culprit. Now I am more inclined to believe that sub design (as it interacts with Audyssey calibration) and/or Audyssey implementation is more to blame. But to be honest, I don't have a clue. All I know is that I can, and have, reproduced this issue several dozen times in 4 totally different sub locations in my basement.

Comments/suggestions?

Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged

How about a question? Just to be clear - I've tried to follow the discussion, but I'm still a bit confused.

Are you seeing/hearing/measuring the boost audibly (with a mic or REW) or are you seeing an actual electrical boost at the receiver's sub-woofer output?

Originally Posted by HDTVChallenged

How about a question? Just to be clear - I've tried to follow the discussion, but I'm still a bit confused.

Are you seeing/hearing/measuring the boost audibly (with a mic or REW) or are you seeing an actual electrical boost at the receiver's sub-woofer output?

Originally Posted by counsil

More and more folks in the SVS PB13 Ultra thread are mentioning that they too are having problems with their subs bottoming out very early with Audyssey engaged. Maybe this is an SVS Ultra issue? But why can't Chris reproduce this in his lab with his SVS Ultra? I am perplexed.