"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 492

Chris,

I am thinking to do both Wide and Height speakers. For the height speakers, in addition to being placed as high as possible, I assume they should be placed as close as possible to the recommended elevation of 45 degrees. Obviously, there are compromises that will influence this:

Clearances - So nobody bumps their head on the bottom of the speaker while entering or exiting the room.
Aesthetics - A speaker hanging in the middle of the room may not look that great.
SAF - So nobody gets divorced due to the addition of DSX.

In my situation, I think they would wind up at a 20-25 degree angle from ear height. Would it still work?

Thanks.

Mark

Mark are you assuming that the Denon AVP A1 HD is going to get the DSX or are you getting something else?

So then what you are saying is that the closer we are able to play our systems to the "0" reference level, the less compensation Dynamic Eq will apply?

To be specific, in my little "home theater," I typically listen to movies and most music CDs at about -18 to -15 db. Tv is usually listened to at -22 to -18 db. My Onkyo TX-SR706 has something called "Intellivolume" that allows me to set the input sensitivity between -12 and +12 db.

So if I set both the tv and Blu-Ray input sensitivity to -12 db, my in-room listening levels would become -6 to -3 db for movies and music (I use my Blu-Ray player for both movies and music over HDMI) and -10 to -6 db for tv. Dynamic Eq would then apply less compensation and sound less overwelming and boomy, correct?

I would have simply put you on the upper floor, and then given your lab a pop-up roof!

Re DSX: I presume that there is no way to get this with an older AVR, e.g., the Onk 805, correct? What about with Aud' 'Sound Equalizer'? Or only with a new AVR? (The 7.1 version, with the Heights speakers in lieu of the 2 back ones.)

Exactly. That's how Dynamic EQ is designed. It is turned Off when you are at reference because it's not necessary to compensate. You only need it to maintain the reference impression of surround envelopment and octave-to-octave balance when you are listening below reference. The further you are from reference the more it compensates.


Yes, although I can't really say what "Intellivolume" does. Assuming it adjusts the input level for that source then you will achieve what you want.

We have not been informed of any manufacturer plans to upgrade older models with DSX. I will pass that info along if I receive it.

The Sound EQ will remain as the room correction engine for separate systems for now.

We were offered the top floor but rejected it because of the structure noise from the A/C compressors. The lab spec for noise was NC15 and we actually achieved NC10. Most home living rooms are NC20 or so and the best movie theaters are NC15-20. This is the quietest room most people have ever been in.

Interesting. I will give it a try.

I've been in several large anechoic chambers. Creepily quiet.

At the opposite end, I've stood next to the tail of the U-2 spyplane during engine run up in the Mojave desert in the middle of summer. LOUD and HOT!!!

I am assuming (hoping) that the AVP A1 will get a DSX upgrade for
$200 or less. Hey, I can dream, can't I?

I am not getting a new processor. Maybe some more subs. Just kidding, Gary

Makr

Yeah, I'm with you on that Mark. I will be glad to pay for the upgrade. I just hope if it comes I won't have to send the unit in to have it done. My room is good for the "wides". Not to sure about the "heights".

Mark,

"Basically, if I placed the heights at the ideal elevation of 45 degrees, they would be very close to my seating area."

Why not some in-ceiling speakers?

The upside is that being close means they won't have to be driven as hard.

When do we get the in-ceiling and in-floor speakers directly above and below us?


Mike

Does anyone have any thoughts - Chris? - on timbre-matching the Wides and Heights to the rest of the system? I would think that it would be extremely important to do so, so unless one's mains are in-ceiling, the additional speakers should not be either.

I have an Integra DHC-9.9 processor with Audyssey MultEQ XT. The amplifier I am using has to much power

570w @ 8Ω (fronts)/ 250w @ 8Ω (rears) per channel
1,140w @ 4Ω (fronts)/ 550w @ 4Ω (rears) per channel

along with my speakers high sensitivity.

L/R - 100dB @ 2.83V / 1m
Center - 99dB @ 2.83V / 1m
Surrounds - 97dB @ 2.83V / 1m

When doing the Audyssey auto calibration it sets all speaker trims at their lowest limits. -12

I listen to material at -7 below reference. Can I go in and balance match them @ -7 on the master volume with an SPL meter and pink noise test tone after the Audyssey calibration?

Or do I need Audyssey to do the channel balancing to take advantage of it measuring the acoustical distance and replace my amp with a lower power amplifer?

John

I have run into a similar problem due to highly efficient speakers. I would not change the settings set by Audyssey, although the problem is that the -12 setting is due to a limit in the Integra. Who knows what the proper setting is. My speakers are 104dB at 1m. as far as efficiency. I wish the software designers had taken into account the high efficiency speakers.

I have not been able to find a better way to calibrate my HT, although as is it sounds really good and well balanced in multi channel sources.

this is your best bet, just rebalance the speaker volumes the "old fashioned" way with an SPL meter so they are within the +/- channel level trim boundaries. then you still get to use the audyssey EQ / filters, distance settings, etc. you will just manually make sure the speaker volumes are correct relative to each other.

Would doing so negatively effect DEQ, since that is based on knowing true, Audessey calculated reference, and making adjustments relative to that known reference?

Brian

yes, "reference level" will ostensible no longer be "0" on the volume knob so the Dyn. EQ compensation will be off a bit. I would try and keep all the speaker volumes as far negative as possible when doing the manual rebalance, just to keep it close. he is also listening so loud as it is (-7 on the dial) that I would think Dyn. EQ isn't even doing that much.

you can also probably dial in a simple compensation using the "source level" adjustment. for example, let's say all speakers need to be at -15dB (+/- a few dB's to balance relative volumes) when you check with the SPL meter (thus the AVR is running out of room at -12). So you bump them all up to -10dB (+/- a few dB's), maintaining relative balance, and you end up with a "global" shift of 5dB louder. So, dial down the source level for your inputs by 5dB to compensate, and if I am understanding things correctly you should end up at the same effective point (where volume of "0" = reference level) as far as Dyn. EQ is concerned.

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong

Also have you considered allowing Dynamic Volume processing independent of Dynamic EQ?

cheers

Yes, you likely do need to redo the MultEQ setup, but with reduced output from your prepro. You need to put an attenuator pad in each channel that MultEQ found to be at -12 - Here's a bunch from which to choose. The -12dB ones might be the ticket.

Quick question. I can't do a search on all 500 pages. Does Audyssey Eq the sub?? If so how well and accurate does it do it?? Currently I'm on a new Pioneer Elite and it can't even seen to set the sub level right, let alone EQ.

All versions, except 2EQ, do.

Quite well, in general but, again, there are various versions and they do so with varying degrees of performance.

Of course, if you do get Audyssey, you will have to read all 500 pages of the thread and it will probably be even longer by then.

How is the sub level off?
Too low?

Yes, we did consider it. We found that it really doesn't matter if you turn the volume down manually or automatically. Our perception still requires the loudness compensation provided by Dynamic EQ. Movie content did not sound correct without it when listened to at levels below reference. This was confirmed by extensive listening tests that included mixers familiar with their own content.

Understood, but as I've mentioned previously I still prefer the old "Night Mode" over Dyn Vol for very late night viewing when the movie experience is not wanted, when you only want to hear the dialogue without the pumped up bass disturbing those sleeping in the house.

Or will the "Dynamic EQ Reference Level Offset" feature reduce the effects of Dyn EQ enough?

Which brings me to the other question I posted:

Surely if allowing Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol to be implemented independently is not a difficult task, it would allow more user preference options in essence opening your product up to a larger group of users..........because I(and I'm sure others also) currently do not use Dyn Vol at all.

If I were able to use just Dyn Vol(without Dyn EQ) for late night viewing, I have no doubt I would never* use Night Mode again

cheers

*I reserve the right to change my view when and if I am ever able to use Dyn Vol without Dyn EQ

Sure. You can use that offset to reduce the effect of Dynamic EQ. I don't know if it will be offered as an update, but you can achieve the exact same thing by reducing the source input trim on your AVR. That will cause you to turn the master volume up and therefore reduce the effect of Dynamic EQ.

Before all the discussion moves away from DSX, one further question: my 'HT' (a converted master BR) is longer than wide (17' L, 14' W), and the sitting area is ~ 12 ft from a large (9' W) screen (with pj on a stand behind viewers). The L and R speakers are ear ht, about 10 ft apart (with the C of course in between).

I like the idea of 2 Wide speakers, for the L/C/R are relatively far (~ 10 ft) from the viewers, and having something wider than the L and R would fill out the sound stage. However having these two speakers 60 deg off axis (which does seem right to me) would mean that they would be significantly closer to the listeners than the L/C/R speakers. I suppose that Audyssey would make that not a problem, right? I.e., the proper level and timing for them would cause them to blend in correctly?

So I agree, esp in my room config--which I think is probably typical of many--that giving up the 2 rear speakers for 2 Wides (i.e., staying at 7.1) would be beneficial. The only disgusting thing about this is that it would require a new AVR!!!!

Yes, that's right. MultEQ in the new AVRs with DSX will time and level align the new wide and height speakers and, of course, run the room correction filters for them as well.