"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 504

Well, you're not using the space bar!
You be the judge of what you want to hear from your speakers, using Audyssey for its total control system. If you feel your center needs a bit more or less, adjust it.

Heh. I'm in the same boat as the other poster. It's always bugged me that Audyssey sets my speakers so low--never higher than -4 to -7.

So, in an effort mostly to fuel my paranoia, I re-ran the calibration after I moved my surrounds in a few feet. Pretty much the same negative settings all around, but with one of those weird "sub is a mile a way" settings. Well, that wasn't going to do.

On checking the sub volume, I found that it was probably a little high--no doubt the result of my inching it up after a previous calibration. So, back to a hair over 1/3.

Oh yeah...one more thing: I wonder if that center channel speaker is sitting too far back in the shelf? It fits in there pretty flush, so maybe I better pull it out a hair. Of all the components of my 5.1 set up, this has always been the one that bothered me the most, soundwise.

Rerun Audyssey.

Results look about perfect for distances (the sub found its way back home), but now I'm even more decibels in the hole: down about -8 to -9 all around. Well, except for the sub at 0. Hmm.

And wait...something else is different: my crossovers have changed. Left, right and surrounds are now at 80Hz (up from 60), which since they're all identical, seems right. And now my center (which, after all, has smaller drivers) is at 100Hz. Me likey.

The result? My system has never sounded better! Balanced, accurate, full and warm.

So, I no longer worry about negative decibel settings (hey, I've got a volume knob!). Audyssey knows what it's doing.

Heh, you had me going there for a while.

It really is nothing to worry about (as long as you don't bottom or top out the adjustment range)...

(Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but) My understanding is that Audyssey is just calibrating "0" on your volume control to correspond with the correct SPL required at reference level. If you have efficient speakers, the adjustments will be negative. If you have a set of low sensitivity acoustic suspension speakers, the readings might be positive.

There's nothing either sinister or mysterious about it... its just calibrating the receiver's volume control to the sensitivity of your speakers.

Otto,

Just remember what the level trims are for: they are set to a value so that when you turn your master volume to "0" you are listening at film reference. That's the only reason they are there along with the fact that they allow the system to balance the speaker levels so they are all equal.

Other than that these values are meaningless. If you dislike negative numbers then turn up the trims by 7 dB. All that means is that your reference master volume will now be at -7 dB instead of 0.

The point is: these are all relative numbers.

Thanks, Chris.

No, actually it no longer bothers me (especially since it sounds so great!). In fact, I'm just going to go on the assumption that I have especially good speakers (or at least very efficient)!

Chris, just checking,

You are right that it's the relative setting that matters, but in you example, you should also note that to preserve the relative deltas, the sub on that example should be *raised* by 7 dB as well.

Also, isn't it better to leave some headroom on the AVR's internal processing (say for additional internal EQ or soundfield)?

I generally want to see at least 4 dB of headroom left in the trim settings, especially in the sub.

BTW- Gain management, it's so critical to good sounding systems, yet so darn difficult to set right. Even if you know what it is and how to go about measuring and setting on the various pieces of gear.

It's one of the reasons I truly admire vertically integrated systems like Meridians digital theater, where gain structures are matched to the n-th degree with the systems (it helps when your speakers can speak to the processors).
The only shame is they don't have Audyssey room correction ;-)

Yes. Any adjustment should be applied to all speaker and sub levels to maintain the relative balance.


It is my understanding that the available headroom is actually fixed and doesn't change. They take the worst case scenario into account (all processes running) and work back from that to allocate the trim ranges and manual EQ adjustment ranges so that it all fits within the DSP digital range.

1) I don't know how many people think Audyssey is a bit too bright. I know I don't, and I'm quite happy with the sound using the Audyssey curve.

2) You're wondering why your room is completely symmetrical? Well, you should. I've yet to come across a room which is completely symmetrical, down to identical window and door placements on opposite walls, and with an exact left/right balance of doors and windows on the front and back walls. Every room I've come across is less than completely symmetrical, but some are definitely more so than others. Mine is in the "as far from symmetrical as it's almost possible to get" category.

Hi gentlemen,

Hanging around this thread for so long has really helped me get the best out of my system, both in multi channel movie watching and critical 2 channel music listening. All I can say is Audyssey is priceless. If it's set up properly, it can completely blow you away. Your $5k system can sound almost as good as the rich guys $50k one does. Just amazing!

There's only one thing I keep noticing while I learn more from the really smart A/V folks around here. Its that people keep fiddling with their sub's gain control after running Audyssey! Your totally ruining your setup. Do as your mother used to tell you and leave that knob alone.

I believe we do it because we've all been brainwashed to think our subs have to shake the crap out of our houses or we're missing something. That's not what good bass management is about as Chris has tried tirelessly to educate people about.

Thanks Chris and other regular posters here.

Brock

My processor uses Audyssey MultEQ XT. How well would it timbre match a front stage if the L/R mains were of a different manufacture than the center channel speaker? Is there a chance it could come close if the speakers were similar?

John

You will get better results if you use speakers from the same "family" that share drivers. It gets more difficult if the speakers have dramatically differing directivity patterns.

One adjustment that either adds to or subtracts from the dynamic range of Dynamic Volume is to change the Source Level for each Input Mode (Denon terminology). On the Denon the range is -12dB to +12dB with the default in the middle at 0. Lowering the setting to -12dB causes the master volume to have to be turned up by +12dB to get any given desired overall loudness. The more the master volume is turned up the less Dynamic Volume is applied, until at a master volume of 0, no DV is applied. It seems that many people complain about too much bass with DV, and this little trick reduces that. I prefer a setting of about -8dB to -10dB for most of my inputs, but that's just me maybe. I don't like booming bass.

Another thing you can do is to increase the gain for the center channel. I find that we adjust the volume mostly to better hear dialog, and by increasing the center's loudness the rest of the system isn't quite so dynamic. I find that increasing the center +4dB is just to my and my wife's liking. These things are very much a matter of personal preference.

Your examples however would not benefit from this since they are variation in the source. The Input would be the same. I don't think there's anything that can be done for source variation.

Great, thanks for that - I'll play with the Source Level some more and see if it helps. My initial impression is that it only makes the sound from the input softer or louder overall. I don't quite understand the relationship between DV and the master volume that you're describing. Are you saying that the softer the master volume is the more DV kicks in? If I like to listen at a certain level, wouldn't DV kick in the sameregardless of the Source Level? It sounds promising though.

My center speaker isn't a problem and I like the results of the other Audyssey features, so I'm good there. I'd just like to understand how to get the most out of DV because it could be useful to me if it worked as Audyssey claims.

That tweak is for Dynamic EQ, not Dynamic Volume.

Hakka.

Just a quick comment on Audyssey and room correction. I think it did a fantastic job in my environment. I have an Onkyo TX-SR806, with a pair of JBL E20's front, JBL EC25 center, JBL E10 surrounds, and some old Paradigm Atoms for surround backs. (I've since relocated the E10's since I took pics) Velodyne DPS-12 sub for LFE. MultEQ really smoothed out the room - I have hardwood floors, with pocket doors on the side and rear of the room, and it sounds so much better. Thanks Chris for this great technology.

I recently did a little experiment with my SWs.

For my front L and R channels, I have two bookshelf speakers both connected to the inputs / outputs of one powered SW located under the L speaker. The SW cutover switch is set at 150Hz. So all of the bass' below 150Hz from both the L and R channel is played by this one SW. It is basically my mid bass' driver.

A second identical powered SW is under the R speaker. It's connected to the LFE output from my AVR and receives that channel exclusively. The receiver's cutover is set to 80Hz so all of the frequencies at or below that are going to the LFE channel. This is my bass' driver.

I'm using MultEQ XT with my front speakers set to small'. For grins and giggles, I set my front speakers to large' to see if there was any difference in the bass. There was. It became muddy' sounding, and did not produce the very low frequency sounds I was used to hearing when they were set to small'. How could this be true since I was playing the bass through an identical SW as the LFE channel? All I can attribute it to is the 8 times bass management applied by Audyssey to the LFE channel. I switched the fronts back to small', and the bass I was used to hearing returned.

End of story.

To accurately do what you tried, you needed to re-run audessy with the changed setup...

If I read this correctly, your bookshelfs and the sub are both connected via speaker level outputs of your AVR?

I think the answer is yes. The attached is a picture of the connections showing the speaker outputs from the AVR to the High Level Inputs at the SW, and then the High Level Outputs from the SW to each bookshelf speaker. Again, the SW crossover is set to 150Hz.

For the second LFE SW (separate from the one connected to the bookshelves), I'm only using the AVR LFE output to both of the R and L 'Line Level In' RCA inputs on the SW using a Y connector at the sub.

I had it connected this way when I ran Audyssey. I have a 100Hz peak that Audyssey corrected in both the left and right channels. Of course, I can't tell what Audyssey did with the LFE channel.

The bottom line is, for me, it all sounds great!

That's an interesting point. When I ran Audyssey, the AVR set my fronts to Large and I don't remember what the crossovers were set to. Before listening to my system, I immediately changed the front speakers to Small, set the system crossover to 80Hz and checked the LFE crossover to make sure it was set to 120Hz.

In my 'experiment', I essentially put the system back to where receiver set itself after I ran Audyssey. I liked the sound my manual settings produced much better.

So something I'm wondering relating to Audyssey: How much pre-ringing does it display once configured?

Wired the way you have it, neither your front L&R nor the corresponding sub is benefiting from the AVR's bass management system. And that sub is not benefiting from the much higher resolution Audyssey filters that are assigned to the subwoofer channel.

Your AVR is bass managing the other sub and is routing both the LFE channel and content below the crossovers from the other channels. I would suggest that you run the two subs from the single subwoofer channel line level output from your AVR and re-run Audyssey. That way the two identical subs will be sharing the LF duties.

I think it can sound greater!

Not to nitpick... but why are you splitting the LFE channel into the R and L inputs at the sub?

It's a mono channel so there isn't really anything to gain by sending that channel to both the R and L inputs. Most subs just need a line level input into the L (mono) input.

Just curious why you did it that way.

Totally! I believe Audyssey misses the bullseye in most mid range receivers (i dont know about high end ones) - either the software or the Mic used is no good. Don't get me wrong, it does a brilliant job compared with what i could do without it, makes everything in the ok to great, but i think one can do better manually by improving from the processed Audyssey template. As i said it made my system super bright. It set up everything to Large with a 40Hz crossover. Sub to +9dB and shakes the crap out of the neighbour's roof!

The only thing you'd miss out is dynamic volume, so when the kids are asleep at night and i watch something i'd use dynamic volume under audyssey instead of manual, and reduce sub to -12dB! With low volumes bright isnt a bad thing as it makes everything clear.

Anyway, who cares what i think ;p just gotta let it out! MANUAL FTW!

Alternate explanation: "Those" owners are doing something wrong in setup and/or just do not understand how Audyssey works and what it is supposed to do?

For example, "sub to +9dB" says nothing about how loud that sub plays. Those trim numbers are relative, not absolute. I won't go there on the "do better manually by improving from the processed Audyssey template." Hint: When you make manual EQ adjustments, the Audyssey filters go away and you are starting from scratch. (Oh shucks, I went there anyway. )

I wanted to add that the more posts I see in this thread... the more I notice that someone may rant and rave about how much they hate Audyssey.. and then they try one minor thing differently - sub placement... mic height... and then they seem to think that Audyssey is great.

I think that just goes to show that Audyssey isn't simply plug and play. If anything, it takes some time to properly calibrate it - to get good (expected??) results.

I'm sure some people just don't like the curve that Audyssey tries for.. but then again, I spent some time EQing my sub and found that I was really picky about what "sounded good". A very flat EQ sounded really lifeless.

Maybe someday Audyssey will have a web page on the AVR/preamp and you can tweak the settings and define your own curve

I'm looking forward to spending some time calibrating and tweaking Audyssey on my Onkyo 886.

Sorry if this has been asked before. Just received my 886 last week and have been setting up Audyssey with Dynaudio Focus 220 speakers. After the calibration, when I review the settings the unit made, and want to change it from Full Range to Small with a 80hz crossover, should I change it and then Save or can it be done after Saving and still work with Audyssey.

Thanks
Chuck

It is not an observation that is usually well received, but I really think that many people are so accustomed to something other than flat and/or twiddling this knob here and that knob there to change the sound that a one-size-fits-all, cinema reference curve satisfies neither their ears nor their idea of what freedom they should have to change it. This is quite common with the bottom end, but is true throughout the range.