"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 7

It is not capable of such magic nor is anything else capable of it. I would, frankly, not bother taking any measurements from that remote listening position as any EQ accommodation for it could be at the expense of the main seating area. Mebbe the difference would encourage your lone wolf to join the crowd.

I have been disappointed that Audyssey doesn't allow the user to do his own callibration, and also doesn't allow much end-user control over the final curves, or the ability to store multiple user-tweaked curves.

Have been looking into the Behringer DEQ2496. Just a sugestion for anyone who feels as I do about the Audyssey.

The DEQ2496 is only 2-channel, but at $299 it wouldn't be that painful to buy 4 units.

So I have recently moved my speakers around I wanted to redo my audyssey set up. I plugged in the mic like I have in the past and went to auto/eq but when I start the system and it is running speaker detect a test tone is played from the front left speaker then there is silence and it plays the same test tone louder and repeats this process so the tones are played a total of for times getting progressively louder. After that I get an error saying the ambient noise is to high or the speaker level is too low.

There is virtually no ambient noise and the speaker is shaking the floor. I have consulted the manual but it just says make sure the speakers are connected. Anyone have any ideas? I think it must be the calibration mic but I have no idea how to test that theory.

Audyssey does let you choose a flat response option, but the option called "Audyssey" is not flat. The top end is rolled off slightly. It also gives an option which attempts to match the sound of the rear speakers to that of the fronts. I don't think you can say the purpose of Audyssey is to produce the flattest possible response. Rather it is to give 3 specific options, one of which is flat. It's great if one of those options is what you want, but it's not particularly useful if none of the options suit you. Fortunately I like the results.

I have to say that I would like the option to store 2 different sets of measurements and filters. My room has a large sliding door opening onto a covered patio and I sometimes have the door open, sometimes closed. The measurements taken with the door closed give a result that works well with the door open but the results with measurements taken with the door open aren't quite as good with the door closed though still quite acceptable. I'd love to be able to store both sets of measurements and results and swap between them depending on whether the door is open or not. It's not a big deal but it would be nice and I suspect that it would be a useful option for a lot of people.

David Aiken

There's probably a limited number of error messages. 'Ambient noise too high' may be the only message option available for a situation if the signal level from the mic is too low. Have you damaged the microphone lead or the mic in any way? That may be worth checking.

If you have a friend who also has a 2807 or a different model with the same mic, try borrowing their mic and see if the problem persists. If it does, there may be something wrong with your 2807 and you may need to get it serviced.

David Aiken

What is the frequency response of the Audyssey pro system?

Thanks for all of the effort that has gone into this (and other) threads but I still don't get it. I have read the various linked threads and the Audyssy Website and I can't get what I am reading to make sense.

Audyssey states on their Faqs: "Changes made to the crossover frequency or small and large settings of the loudspeakers will affect the performance of the MultEQ filters and Audyssey does not recommend changing them." Yet everyone here (as well as chris on another linked thread) seems to suggest to do exactly that. I also read from a post last year that Chris recommends the "LFE + Main" and changing the crossover will effect the Audyssey parameters.

I have a Denon AVR 4806. When I ran the setup it labeled all of my speakers "large" except my Center and "B" surrounds. On the Crossover Frequency page in the "Advanced Mode" and setting the "LFE+Main" or if I go in and manually set all speakers to small I get:

Klipsch Home Theater

Front (RF-7's) 40 Hz
Center (RC-7) 80 Hz
Surround A (RF-3) 60 Hz
Surround B (RS-7) 100 Hz
S. Back (RB-75) 60 Hz
LFE 80 Hz

On this threads faq sheet from page 1,

" In situations where the speakers do not play significantly below 80 Hz, an additional step must be taken to make sure that there is no loss of bass information. The user must set the speaker to Small manually so that bass management is performed properly."

and NICK250 writes:

"After you run Audyssey Auto EQ any changes you make in speaker size and bass management overrides Audyssey. In most systems after you run Audyssey Auto EQ you should go into speaker setup and change (if necessary) all the speakers small and cross them over at 80Hz. Audyssey usually does not get this part right. There is a separate setting for the LFE xover which should be set to 120Hz. Once you set all your speakers to small, bass management is moot. Everything below the xover goes to the sub and everything above the xover goes to the speakers regardless of the bass management settings."

I have a small (1800 cubic ft)"dead" room and I sit close to all of my speakers and 2 subs (RSW-15 rear/RSW-12 front). I had a Denon AVR 4802R THX ultra II that I ran this system for 4 years and liked setting the majority of my speakers to large.

If I am gauging consensus right on this thread, I should go and change all of my speaker settings to small. What I don't understand is where/if I should change each speakers crossover to 80 Hz and IF I should bump up the LFE at the bottom of the "Crossover Frequency" page to 120 Hz. FWIW on my other AVR 4802R I liked sending everything under 60 Hz to the sub on music and I played movies in the "THX mode" with tremendous results. I also wonder about Chris' original recommendation of setting the "Lfe + main."

Last night I became brain-dead from reading way too much info. I put in Dido's DVD, changed the parameters to small and left the Crossover frequencies as stated above and once again had a sublime experience. I am about to play around with it again tonight.

If anyone has any thoughts on my situation please feel free to post.

Ouch! I went back and read this thread for the third time and that massive "experience with the AVR 3806 and Audyssey" for the 2nd time and I found that the mention of the discrepancy is on one of Chris' post in June 2006. Again, I appreciate the effort that has gone into this thread, but perhaps a caveat or asterisk stating that that answer on the FAQ on the Audyssey web page is for the stand alone unit and NOT for AVRs. I realize also that is covered on the Audyssey page on the Denon website but I didn't think to go there after coming here.

Insofar as setting the crossover on the LFE...

I believe I am going to keep my crossover's for the speakers the same as Audyssey recommends and change all of my speakers to "Small," (although I still may play around with it) but what would be the benefit of having the LFE set at 120 Hz verses anything else?

Well, after doing more research I gather in the above scenario if I set the lfe to 80 Hz I would loose the information between 80 Hz and 120 Hz in the lfe channel... Is That correct?

I'll chime in here although I am certainly no expert. Yes, if you choose a 80hz crossover for the LFE, anything above that is gone. But here's the question; how much do you really think is there anyway? You will not lose anything from your other channels that are going to the sub. For example, if your surround is crossed at 120hz, all that info is sent to the sub. The LFE is its own channel, and isn't really used a tremendous amount (although if it wasn't there you would know it).

Bass management is wonderful, and I am awaiting my Onkyo 805 for just these purposes. Being able to cross over speakers individually will be a boone for me I believe.

My surrounds are way small and cheap. They have a little 5 inch full range driver in each of them. Work great for soundtracks, not so good for SACD etc. (That's another story). But I find my surrounds NEED to be crossed over at 120hz or even higher. My center (Klipsch) can go to about 60hz, but as its on top of my DLP I'd rather not have it vibrate too much so I'll go with 80hz. (I'll bet you anything Audyssey will set it to Large). Of course, my main Klipschs (Forte IIs) can go to about 30hz.

Forgive me if I've missed the points of your questions, but I have recently begun to review this thread in anticipation of my reciever.

My question regarding the implementation of the MultiEQ XT in the Onkyo revovles around the ability to save different settings. I believe it is not possible with this particular receiver. That is unfortunate, but I will have to try it before I make any judgements as to how its going to affect my sound.

AFAIK, it is not possible with any Audyssey implementation.

legierk,

Thanks for your response.When I received my AVR 4806 I ran Audyssey and left the settings where they were at and in fact was loosing some bass content. After reading these threads I ran the system again and switched all of the "large" speakers to small and noticed the lfe was crossed at 80 Hz. Before going to bed (and reading the response quoted in my 1st post) I changed the crossover to 120 Hz. I was tired and was done "experimenting." Yesterday I re-calibrated the system again several times and each time the lfe was crossed at 120 (instead of 80 which it had the numerous times before).

FWIW, I don't think Denon's bass mgmt is choosing the crossover for the system. I read Roger Dressler's (Dolby insider) comments on a previous thread and he seems to corroborate what you are saying on the VAST majority of material. It doesn't appear I would do any harm leaving it at 120 Hz and may find something interesting on some DVD-A's.

My next to last questions has to do with how many microphone positions. I have a small ht where I sit within 10 ft of my front and rears and 4 1/2 ft from my side surrounds. On my 2 person love seat there is really only 2 (maybe 3) listening positions. Audyssesy recommends a minimum of 4 calibrations. Would it be better to run A) 1 on each seat (ear level) and 1 or 2 parallel to this position (Chris states 3 ft in front, but that would be considerably closer to my mains than anyone would be sitting) or B) any benefit to running an extra set up from where I will be sitting or the other position? Any harm in doing that?

I do 6 listening positions and place the mikes just like the diagram in the manual.

Your right... Audyessy leaves the LFE crossover where ever its at. Put it at 120 to be safe and forget about it.

Use all 6 posititions, even if that means placing it 3 feet in front of the listening position.
And what I found to be the most important thing is to make sure the mic is a good 3-4 inches above any back rest. Keep that same height for all posititions. I then go and boost the rear speakers about 1-2 dec to make up for me being behind the back rest.

Also... dont change any delays(even if wrong) and dont change crossovers unless you absoluteley have to(receiver not powerful enough and you want the sub to take over some of the work). Always change speakers to small unless you have full range speakers(if you have to ask, change it to small). This could alter it slightly.... but you dont have a choice.
As far as LFE+Main vs LFE. They do the exact same thing when your speakers are set to small. The reason why the Audyssey guy recommended it was because the 3806 has a glitch in it which requires you to set it to LFE+Main in order to get your sub working on 2 channel direct material.

I've been very happy with Audessey and if your not, I urge you to try the tips before you abandon it!!
I do wish we had the option to change crossovers and small/large option before Audessey runs its tests, but nothings perfect I guess.

Oh... and Flat is for music and Audessey is for movies. Fronts is the same as being off except Audessey EQ's the lower end. There's no crime in playing with them all and finding what you like best. I prefer everything set to Flat(but the highs can be a little overwhelming on movies, hence why Im suppose to use Audessey...).
Dont forget... some of you may not be used to how movies and music are suppose to really sound. Leave it at the settings for a week or two and give it a chance.

Thanks shamus1099,

I planned on doing as you suggest in reference to the crossovers and I am happy with results. I have the Denon AVR 4806 and did some testing after I first got it and did some more informed testing over the last couple of days. I have to admit I am ready to enjoy the fruits of my labor, but the tweaker in me wanted to hear other's experience with the multi-position Audyssey set up in a small (less than 1800 cu ft./275 sq ft. HT)

Now that I have the small/large thing squared away, as well as what's going on with the Lfe on "Advanced" mode, I want to make sure I can get the optimum results with microphone placement. I will play around with that again today.

My last question has to do with running 2 subs that are daisy chained through the LFE out of the AVR. My Front RSW 12 is (unfortunately) in front of the fireplace on the left side wall facing into the room (4.5 ft from me) My Rear RSW 15 is under the left rear speaker facing (5 ft from me) at a right angle from the other Sub. I think I am getting a good result with the Audyssey but is there a chance that I am not? edit: {In the pic below you can't see the front sub}

I too run dual subs(isnt that the only way???? ). What I did was first get each sub volume in line with each other. Turn off one and get a SPL reading, than turn off the other one and match it. Make sure you have the correct phase selected for each sub... then run Audessey. Be carefull that once both subs are operating that they arent too loud before Audyssey... if they are, Audyssey will have to turn up all your other speakers and then sometimes the master volume is affected by this. So before running Audessey, make sure you level the sub volume on the receiver to 0. And then run the test tones on the receiver. Get it to where the subs(both on) are about +5 higher than the other speakers(This gives Audessey some breathing room, because I believe its better to have to reduce bass on the receiver than to increase it).
Im by far an expert on this, but this is what Ive found to be the best way.

Dont forget its always best to use sub placement for the flatest response and then run Audessey.

Very good info. I have 3 subs but only run one currently. (WAF) I've thought about hooking up the other two, but if I did, I would probably start with them co-located to avoid cancellation.

I do not have Audyssey at the moment, but should within the next few weeks when my Onkyo arrives (TX-SR805 w/MultiEQ XT). I have used outboard EQ's and maps along with REW, Avia, DVE and spectrum analyzers up to this point to achieve my results. I'm hoping I can pack away a rack load of equipment and just let Audyssey take over these chores. (WAF again!....maybe then I can bring out the other subs!)

Poor man's Audyssey

Oops... Your post reminded me to add CHECK PHASE in my post... Thanks! And your right.... I dont think it would be good to throw Audessey on top of another EQ!

Well, first of all, it doesn't appear to come all that close to its goal, if the goal is, as you put it, to "produce the flattest possible frequency response in your particular environment." For instance, Kal Rubinson's review in Stereophile stated: "Audyssey will send you Before and After charts of each channel's frequency response. The charts they sent me were beautiful but, I feel, optimistic, and inconsistent with what Ethan and I measured on-site."

Second, you're implicitly assuming that the music (or movie) was mixed/produced using perfectly flat speakers, and that therefore perfectly flat speakers would give you a reproduction of the original music. I think most would agree that music/movies generally have NOT been mixed on perfectly flat systems.

"I think most would agree that music/movies generally have NOT been mixed on perfectly flat systems."

That's a red herring; you can't ask an EQ to fix an unknown.

I forget if it was Kal's writings, but I've read that Audyssey and other EQ's in reality correct the response in the direction of flat, but never go all the way.

But with a user-adjustable EQ, I can at least set it to whatever sounds "right" to my ears. Whereas with Audyssey, there is no such capability; one has only the choice of four set options.

Sorry if this has been answered already but does anyone know if the new units being released this summer with Audyssey will let you customize things after you've run the configuration - e.g. modify bass settings?

What do you mean by "modify bass settings", current version of Audyssey (at least on the Denons) allow you to adjust bass management settings (Large/Small, xover settings, gain, etc.) and still use Audyssey.

Nonetheless, without any useful information about what the targets/tools were used on each recording, one must default to the flat response as a goal. Otherwise, you need to do the EQ by ear. Besides, the room's influence, in most cases, is the largest and most pernicious element and Audyssey will compensate for that.

Nope. If you feel this way, you can add your own flavoring to the basic Audyssey correction with your favorite adjustable EQ which, on its own, cannot begin from a flat reference position.

"But with a user-adjustable EQ, I can at least set it to whatever sounds "right" to my ears. Whereas with Audyssey, there is no such capability; one has only the choice of four set options."

I definitely agree with you on that.

Maybe someday (or maybe it already exists in the PC or pro audio) you'll have a curve and you can grab and drag any point on it to make the shape you want.

Kal, I hope you might review the Behringer DEQ2496 in Stereophile. Here are a few of the features:

4 concurrently selectable EQ modules (31-band graphic EQ, 10-band parametric EQ, Feedback Destroyer plus three Dynamic EQs per stereo channel)

Ultra high-resolution 61-band real-time FFT Analyzer with additional auto EQ function for room and loudspeaker equalization

64 user memories for complete setups and/or individual module configurations

Two high-performance 32/40-bit floating-point SHARC® digital signal processors for ultimate sonic resolution

Balanced inputs and servo-balanced outputs with gold-plated XLR connectors, stereo aux output, AES/EBU and S/PDIF inputs and outputs (XLR and optical)

http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=eng

....and all for $300 street, though only 2-channel and not (as far as I've seen) allowing for any form of averaging over multiple mic sampling points. Still, for me personally, I am more interested in the "prime" seat, and 4x$300 is less than an Audyssey and allows for more user control and for storing of curves.

The few reviews I've seen are more pro-oriented but are along the lines of "amazing for the price". Again, I'd love to see you review it in Stereophile.

I know about the unit but it is unlikely that I will review it. Doesn't appeal to me personally.