"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 697

Originally Posted by Franin

Hi Audyssey
I have a Denon AVP A1HD from Australia (European Version) is there anyway we can get Audyssey pro installed in our units like the U.S version has? Is there anyway I can get installed if Denon in europe is not intrested, happy to pay for the software.

Originally Posted by audyssey

Hi Frank,

Unfortunately Denon still restricts the CI firmware to US and Canada. So, units sold outside those areas have different firmware and can't run MultEQ Pro. We are continuing to try to convince them that there are many customers in Europe and Australia that would like this, but it still hasn't happened...

Originally Posted by whitenoise

Hello Chris: I have a Marantz SR5003 that utilizes the Multi E.Q. My main speakers go down to 50Hz ( in-walls). Everytime I calibrate in auto, Audyssey sets my crossover to 120Hz every time? Or am I looking at something else. I see this setting in the manual mode only, but when I look at the Audyssey settings everything states auto as there is no db point given? Thanks, Jim

Originally Posted by goonstopher

I have always wondered, if audyssey measures for the -3 point then does that mean it is not useful for most sealed subs?

Many very good sealed subs can be down -3 at 45-50hz, not because they are bad down low much because they are so strong in the mid/upper bass.

How does audyssey deal with this? Does it just ignore the sub from the -3 down

Originally Posted by pepar

Wouldn't a "good sealed sub" be designed to be flat above the -3dB point?

Originally Posted by rickardl

I redid my measurements of a 16kHz test signal, this time with my Onkyo and placing the SPL meter close to tweeter of my front right speaker.
The previous time I had it placed at the first measurement position done with Audyssey.

So the listening modes are either:
a) modes that use the Audyssey Flat Curve and THX Re-Eq can be 'On' or 'Off'.
b) modes that use the Audyssey Flat Curve and THX Re-Eq can not be applied.
c) modes that use the Audyssey Reference Curve and Re-Eq can be 'On' or 'Off'.
d) modes that use the Audyssey Reference Curve and Re-Eq can not be applied.

Basically, anything with 'THX' is either a) or b):
Anything with 'THX' combined with 'Cinema' or 'EX' fell into a).
Anything with 'THX' combined with 'Music' or 'Games' fell into b).

The listening modes were you can end up with double high frequency roll off from Audyssey Reference curve combined with 'Re-Eq: On', category c), are:
- DTS Neo 6
- Dolby Prologic IIx Movie
- Dolby Digital EX
- Dolby Digital
- Neural Surround

This picture shows my test readings with a SPL meter and a 16Khz Dolby Digital test tone.
The Stereo value was measured with an analog signal. I calculated the value relatively
to Dolby Prologic IIx Movie which I also enabled with the analog signal as well
as the 16khz signal.
Pic: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...3&d=1259419145

Please note that the listening mode categories are just me guessing based
on the measured SPL readings.

Originally Posted by goonstopher

Nearly ever sealed sub has a natural curve from the high end down. Even if it were flat to the -3 point, without heavy internal or pre-audyssey external eq, all sealed subs roll off at a decently steep curve.

It just seems like audyssey technology is designed to strongly favor ported subs

Originally Posted by LarryChanin

When I cycle through the listening modes using the Surround button on the remote control the Neural THX 7.1 listening mode comes up but the red THX light on the front displays does not light.

Earlier we had surmised that the Neural THX 5.1/7 listening modes, despite their name, were not true THX listening modes, but the change in name to "Neural Surround", along with your testing, confirms that assumption.

Originally Posted by goonstopher

I have always wondered, if audyssey measures for the -3 point then does that mean it is not useful for most sealed subs?

Many very good sealed subs can be down -3 at 45-50hz, not because they are bad down low much because they are so strong in the mid/upper bass.

How does audyssey deal with this? Does it just ignore the sub from the -3 down

Originally Posted by pepar

I don't agree with that. Audyssey can only work with what it finds. I know this might sound harsh, but since many main speakers go to 45Hz - 50Hz, how good is a subwoofer that rolls off at that point? To me, it certainly doesn't seem adequate for home theater use with the material being movies ... movies with LFE channels that go to 20Hz and below.

Originally Posted by LarryChanin

...
Yes, Audyssey, ignores calculating filters below the - 3dB point for any speaker/subwoofer design.

Larry

Originally Posted by goonstopher

Also I want to say that the new danley dts puts out 140db+ at 100hz BUT is -3db by 50hz or above yet it can still crank out 108db at 12hz...

The -3 idea is really only good for a narrow sub response. The AS-EQ1 and multEQ XT are looking more and more limited for my application and many others I am sure

Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell

Larry, how confident are you in this statement as regards subs? When I was measuring Audyssey effects, as well as adjusting the tuning and placement of my Hsu VTF-3, it appeared that Audyssey is more than happy to try to raise the levels below the low -3dB point, around 22Hz in my room, and above the high -3dB point. In the attached graph, the purple line shows the LFE/SW line out with Audyssey off and an 80Hz crossover, and the green line is the SW line out with Audyssey MultEQ XT On and DynEQ Off. I concluded that Audyssey tries to equalize below and above the -3dB points on the sub, but that there is a limit to how much gain it will apply.

Bill

Originally Posted by audyssey

MultEQ uses a tapering off method to stop correcting below that point just like your speaker doesn't drop off suddenly below the –3 dB point.

However, the tapering off is for the filter not for the sound. In other words, there is no cutting of bass. Just tapers off the boosting that would normally occur because the speaker is rolling off there.

Originally Posted by bluesky636

I think you are confusing frequency response with absolute loudness capability. Frequncy response is measured based on a normalized 0 dB value at a specified frequency (Home Theater Magazine uses 80 hz). Absolute loudness is not a consideration.

However, using your own numbers, that sub is 32 dB down at 12 hz if we normalize at 100 hz. Using more realistic values, say 100 dB SPL at 100 hz, that sub is only putting out 68 dB SPL at 12 hz (assuming the sub's response is linear). I don't consider that very impressive.

Originally Posted by goonstopher

Why not use the numbers I said? Your number aren't impressive I agree. Those numbers can be achieved with a 18" high efficiency sealed sub less than a meter away...

Something like this at 2 meters

"20 Hz - 107 dB
25 Hz - 110 dB
30 Hz - 113 dB
40 Hz - 118 dB
50 Hz and up, over 120 dB"

Originally Posted by goonstopher

Nearly ever sealed sub has a natural curve from the high end down. Even if it were flat to the -3 point, without heavy internal or pre-audyssey external eq, all sealed subs roll off at a decently steep curve.

It just seems like audyssey technology is designed to strongly favor ported subs

Originally Posted by goonstopher

It a ported design is say very average and -3 around 20hz then that means it has around 100hz worth of EQ filters that can be applied, if the roll off begins around 50hz then we have another 30hz that are ignored. It just seems like there should be a sealed or ported setting you can select in the more advanced products like sound equalizer, pro and as-eq1

Originally Posted by bluesky636

I have no idea what point you are trying to make here, other than showing that the sub appears to roll off at about 12 dB/octave which is typical of a sealed sub. You were the one making a big deal about how loud this sub can play at 12 hz vs 100 hz. In any case, 32 dB down is 32 dB down regardless of the absolute levels.

Originally Posted by goonstopher

It a ported design is say very average and -3 around 20hz then that means it has around 100hz worth of EQ filters that can be applied, if the roll off begins around 50hz then we have another 30hz that are ignored. It just seems like there should be a sealed or ported setting you can select in the more advanced products like sound equalizer, pro and as-eq1

Originally Posted by goonstopher

What if something is -3 at 45hz but still puts out 108db at 6-7hz?

Thats is not THAT uncommon for a sealed sub

Originally Posted by millerwill

My understanding is that this typical 12 dB/octave roll off of sealed subs is typically balanced by room gain, so that the net in room response is a quite flat down much further. And I presume that Audyssey measures this net in room output, so that there should be little problem with sealed subs.

Originally Posted by bluesky636

Agreed. I think goonstopher is just hung up on loudness.