"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 768

Originally Posted by jmcomp124

20Hz tuning is different from what I suggested. What I suggested was 15hz tuning (1 port blocked) but set the subsonic filter at 20Hz. Setting the subsonic filter to 20Hz does not mean the subwoofer is tuned for 20Hz. Are you sure they said 20Hz tuning or set the subsonic filter to 20Hz?
A subwoofer with a damaged voice coil is not a good thing. I suggest asking SVS about checking the voice coil. It is really not that risky to check it, you just have to be careful. It is hard to characterize the sound of a damaged voice coil. It depends on the extent of the damage. Was it a loud clank that startled you?

Originally Posted by terminal33

SVS said to tune it to 20Hz and set the subsonic filter to 20Hz as well. I remember reading in the manual to never have the tuning and subsonic filter unmatched.

The sounds that I hear from certain scenes are not clanks. They are like crackles, like a mini firework. It's almost like the sound of a spark.

Originally Posted by pepar

It's all about the frequencies and SPLs at those frequencies. I cruised along happy as a clam with my dual co-located Hsu TN-1220 HO's ... until Iron Man. Now I have two co-located pairs.

Double your present sub config!

Originally Posted by audyssey

You can extend to about 8 meters with a high quality cable. The mic signal is low so beyond that the cable impedance will start to roll off the high frequencies and this will cause the filters to overcompensate.

Originally Posted by jmcomp124

The manual addresses a generic case. A lower tuning point reduces cone excursion. A higher tuning point (like 20Hz) increases the chance of bottoming out. What it gives you is higher output in the range you really care about. So once calibrated, the hope is you wouldn't turn it up too loud but then you are reaching limits far away from reference and hence I am suggesting the safer route of going with lower tuning to decrease cone excursion and also set the subsonic filter higher so you don't send really low frequencies at high levels to the woofer. Again, you may want to ask SVS. A bottom out is usually a clank that is soft (Soft bottom out) or loud (hard bottom out). Spark? Thats odd. Was there ever a time, you heard a loud clank/snap?

-Jai

Originally Posted by batpig

I agree. You (terminal33) have a HUGE room and you are talking about some of the most notoriously LFE heavy movies available. "9" is getting a rep as one of the most intense LFE movies ever released, and Iron Man of course is already notorious.

Originally Posted by batpig

I agree. You (terminal33) have a HUGE room and you are talking about some of the most notoriously LFE heavy movies available. "9" is getting a rep as one of the most intense LFE movies ever released, and Iron Man of course is already notorious.

Originally Posted by terminal33

There was never a time that I heard a loud clank or snap. I first heard it with WOTW when the pods were emerging and it just sounded like the crackling of a firework. When I lower the volume, then it's gone.



So what you guys are saying is to tune (the ports) the sub at 15Hz, but set the subsonic filter (the knob on the back of the sub) at 20Hz? This won't damage the sub?

Originally Posted by jmcomp124

Yes. IMHO tuning the sub to 15Hz and setting the subsonic filter to 20Hz is a safer approach than tuning the sub to 20Hz and setting the subsonic filter to 20Hz. With the former, you will compromise on SPL. Approach the point of failure with slow increments of master volume while finding out the limits of your subwoofer.
I am beginning to wonder based on your description if you are clipping your amp. What is the subwoofer trim level set to and at what position is the gain on your subwoofer?

Originally Posted by terminal33

My sub trim level is at -3.5 and the gain is at 11:00.

Originally Posted by deepstang

Ok, I have read the FAQ on Audyssey dual sub set-up but wanted to know if I could get any more tips or advice.

I have dual subs; however, they are on opposite sides of the room and NOT symmetrical to each other or the listening positions. I already have them level matched via a SPL meter at the main listening/measuring point.

I have an Onkyo 605 with Audyssey 2EQ, which only really sets the distance of the subs...and does not apply any sub filters

My plan is to have them both on and run Audyssey. Any advice would greatly be appreciated!!

Originally Posted by stardustcowboy

hey there. just a quick question about extending the cable for the audyssey mic. i own an onkyo pr sc 5507. today i purchased a 5meter extension cable (stereo), but the onkyo shows an error when running the calibration process. do i need to buy a mono plug, as the plug that comes with the onkyo is just mono? is the extension cable too long?
any suggetions are highly appreciated!

Originally Posted by terminal33



So what you guys are saying is to tune (the ports) the sub at 15Hz, but set the subsonic filter (the knob on the back of the sub) at 20Hz? This won't damage the sub?

Originally Posted by Gary J

Why is it I have a $400 sub in a 11,000 cubic feet Great Room (2 story) and it seems perfectly adequate?

Originally Posted by Gary J

Why is it I have a $400 sub in a 11,000 cubic feet Great Room (2 story) and it seems perfectly adequate?

Originally Posted by jmcomp124

For the very same reason there are Hyundai accents and Bugatti Veyrons.

Originally Posted by terminal33

I have the same problem as post above. Last night I watched "9" on blu ray and it caused my sub to bottom out in multiple scenes. I usually watch movies at -12, but I had to watch it at -20 last night in order for my Ultra PB-13 not to bottom out.

Originally Posted by Gary J

Ok I'll spell it out for you. He said his bottoms out. Mine never bottoms out. Cheaper sub, bigger room.

Originally Posted by Gary J

Why is it I have a $400 sub in a 11,000 cubic feet Great Room (2 story) and it seems perfectly adequate?

Originally Posted by terminal33

My sub trim level is at -3.5 and the gain is at 11:00.

Originally Posted by stardustcowboy

hey there. just a quick question about extending the cable for the audyssey mic. i own an onkyo pr sc 5507. today i purchased a 5meter extension cable (stereo), but the onkyo shows an error when running the calibration process. do i need to buy a mono plug, as the plug that comes with the onkyo is just mono? is the extension cable too long?
any suggetions are highly appreciated!

Originally Posted by Gary J

I am not sure why any of that is relevant but it has been tested for stress a few times. The point is I keep seeing he needs more subs when it seems there is something wrong with the one he has.

Originally Posted by Gary J

Why is it I have a $400 sub in a 11,000 cubic feet Great Room (2 story) and it seems perfectly adequate?

Originally Posted by JHAz

Note: I was looking through this thread and the beginning of my comment sounded harsh in a way I did not intend, so I'm changing it.

I'm not sure I understand you. Could you tell us what you mean when you say the sub goes weak? During measurement, the system is simply playing a test sweep through the sub. It's at a pretty low level, but it is not making any changes whatsoever to anything about the sub during the sweeps themselves. It is possible that you have become accustomed to you sub calibrated a bit high, or to some big peaks that make bass overall seem louder, and you may miss these if Audyssey makes your system flatter. Also, some folks here feel that Audyssey/their receivers set their subs too low, so they turn them up. Personally, I find I am happier with my system with the sub turned down a couple of dBs from where Audyssey/my Denon set it. But thtats just me, and I don't know whether it's something about my room, my sub, the setup, or just me that makes it work better for me. Bottom line is if you think the sub is too quiet turn it up. Your head will not explode, lightnning will not strike, etc. But first you might try living with it as calibrated for a week or two. You may re-acclimate to more accurate sound (if that's what's going on) and find things are too boomy if you turn it up.

Beyond the scope of your question but lately I've been wondering whether different people fasten onto different aspects of the bass performance. Assuming that my sub is not ruler flat throughout my room after calibration (a VERY safe assumption) it seems to me that I am bothered by the sound whenever the sub/bass seems to be too loud to match the rest of the sound (mostly with music). I don't find myself identifying dips in my bass response, or wishing for more bass in any specific passage. Others may be sensitive in the opposite direction - - maybe the too-quiet parts of their frequency response in the bass bug them and the too-loud parts are subjectively more benign.

Originally Posted by bluesky636

Yeah, we really need more info than what you have provided. Like JHAz said, what do you mean by "weak"? You also said that you have been changing the sub's position. What positions have you had the sub in? With the sub in a corner, the unequalized bass is usually too strong. Audyssey will (in general) create filters and trim levels to decrease the bass. Placing a sub in the middle of the room will result in weak bass (unequalized) where Audyssey will (in general) create filters and trim levels to increase the bass. Depending on how much increase is needed, Audyssey may not be able to flatten out the sub's response.

Originally Posted by batpig

I agree. You (terminal33) have a HUGE room and you are talking about some of the most notoriously LFE heavy movies available. "9" is getting a rep as one of the most intense LFE movies ever released, and Iron Man of course is already notorious.

Originally Posted by jmcomp124

You are probably clipping. As others have indicated this is a large room. To pressurize 7000 cu ft is not easy. Have you corner loaded ths subs? If not, you may want to try that. Also, setting the subsonic filter to 20Hz will give you some more headroom. If this is a clipping issue indeed and not a bottoming out issue, then tuning the sub to 20Hz as SVS suggested is the way to go. The reason you maybe encountering this with Audyssey turned on is it maybe applying some boosts that can also eat up headroom quickly if it is in the lowest octaves. Adding another sub is expensive but it will give you 6dB more headroom when colocated.

Originally Posted by terminal33

Well I got home and played the cannon scene from TIH and set my volume at -20 and I heard the pops. I then looked on the screen of my AVR and noticed that it read "Audyssey Dynamic EQ." I then turned Dynamic EQ off and played the scene again. This time I was able to listen at -15 WITHOUT any popping. For some reason Dynamic EQ was on, but I thought I turned it off when I first calibrated my system.

I then watched the end battle scene at -15 and I heard a quick noise on my sub (which is corner loaded). It came in the beginning of the final fight when the Hulk uses the police car as brass knuckles and hits the bad guy multiple times. He then gets on the bad guy and punches him more. There's one bass burst right as the Hulk lifts his arm that caused a chuffing sound. It was less of a pop and more of a chuff this time.

I then changed the subsonic filter to 20Hz while leaving it tuned at 15Hz. (This is OK to do, based on the manual.) I replayed the same scene and I still heard the chuff, but it was softer and more brief. So it seemed that changing the SF to 20Hz DID help a bit. I even changed my sub trim level from -4.5 to -5.0 and turned down my gain by a hair, but I still heard a brief chuff on that part. I then went back to the cannon scene and was able to listen to it at -13 without any pop from the sub. I didn't go louder than -13.

So it seems now that the only part from TIH that causes my sub to make a funny noise is the end battle scene described above. The noise happens so quick that if you weren't listening for it, you probably wouldn't notice it.

My conclusion is that setting the SF to 20Hz did give me a tad more headroom, therefore I will leave it at that. Thanks for the suggestion. Also, I realized that for TIH, listening to it at -15 is not bad at all. I usually watch movies at -12 and so that has become my magical number to set all movies to. But even at -15, I was happy with the sound of TIH. Perhaps other movies will not provide the same level of sound at -15 and so I'll have to turn it up. Then there are those movies like, The Dark Knight and Ironman, where I can watch it at -12 and hear no chuffing/popping on my sub at all. I guess TIH just has that much more potent bass than TDK or Ironman.

Still, "9" seems to have the heaviest bass of all because I heard popping in multiple scenes and had to watch it at -20 to eliminate them. But then again, I was watching "9" with Dynamic EQ on, which SVS told me to turn off today. Unfortunately I mailed "9" back to Netflix already so I don't have it to test out.

Does anyone know more about when or why or IF Audyssey does apply a boost to some movies, or whether it's only below a certain frequency that it applies a boost? Do you think "9" was getting a boost applied? Or does it just have that much more powerful and lower LFE?

Thanks for all of your feedback! I'd appreciate any more help. But for now, I'll just enjoy the movies that I can at -12, and decrease the volume for the small amount of movies that make my sub pop at -12.

Originally Posted by jmcomp124

Gary,
In your case if
7.1 w/ wides > 7.1 w/ surround back speakers holds true, then
5.1 ~= 7.1

In English, if 7.1 w/wides is better than 7.1 w/ surround back speakers is true, then 5.1 should be about the same as 7.1 with 7.1 not adding better rear imaging than 5.1 in your setup. I am not saying this cannot be true, but it maybe just your setup and preferences.

I have to say going from 5.1 to 7.1 in my case also does not give a huge improvement, but there is a noticeable difference. Many a times during movies I hear sounds directly from behind with the 7.1. With 5.1, it is there but not as good as 7.1. If I find that 5.1 Audyssey Wide makes a night and day difference between the current 7.1 setup in front and side imaging, I may compromise on the rear imaging. Something I need to explore when time permits.

Originally Posted by terminal33

Last night I watched "9" on blu ray and it caused my sub to bottom out in multiple scenes. I usually watch movies at -12, but I had to watch it at -20 last night in order for my Ultra PB-13 not to bottom out.

Originally Posted by terminal33

Well I got home and played the cannon scene from TIH and set my volume at -20 and I heard the pops. I then looked on the screen of my AVR and noticed that it read "Audyssey Dynamic EQ." I then turned Dynamic EQ off and played the scene again. This time I was able to listen at -15 WITHOUT any popping. For some reason Dynamic EQ was on, but I thought I turned it off when I first calibrated my system.

I then watched the end battle scene at -15 and I heard a quick noise on my sub (which is corner loaded). It came in the beginning of the final fight when the Hulk uses the police car as brass knuckles and hits the bad guy multiple times. He then gets on the bad guy and punches him more. There's one bass burst right as the Hulk lifts his arm that caused a chuffing sound. It was less of a pop and more of a chuff this time.

I then changed the subsonic filter to 20Hz while leaving it tuned at 15Hz. (This is OK to do, based on the manual.) I replayed the same scene and I still heard the chuff, but it was softer and more brief. So it seemed that changing the SF to 20Hz DID help a bit. I even changed my sub trim level from -4.5 to -5.0 and turned down my gain by a hair, but I still heard a brief chuff on that part. I then went back to the cannon scene and was able to listen to it at -13 without any pop from the sub. I didn't go louder than -13.

So it seems now that the only part from TIH that causes my sub to make a funny noise is the end battle scene described above. The noise happens so quick that if you weren't listening for it, you probably wouldn't notice it.

My conclusion is that setting the SF to 20Hz did give me a tad more headroom, therefore I will leave it at that. Thanks for the suggestion. Also, I realized that for TIH, listening to it at -15 is not bad at all. I usually watch movies at -12 and so that has become my magical number to set all movies to. But even at -15, I was happy with the sound of TIH. Perhaps other movies will not provide the same level of sound at -15 and so I'll have to turn it up. Then there are those movies like, The Dark Knight and Ironman, where I can watch it at -12 and hear no chuffing/popping on my sub at all. I guess TIH just has that much more potent bass than TDK or Ironman.

Still, "9" seems to have the heaviest bass of all because I heard popping in multiple scenes and had to watch it at -20 to eliminate them. But then again, I was watching "9" with Dynamic EQ on, which SVS told me to turn off today. Unfortunately I mailed "9" back to Netflix already so I don't have it to test out.

Does anyone know more about when or why or IF Audyssey does apply a boost to some movies, or whether it's only below a certain frequency that it applies a boost? Do you think "9" was getting a boost applied? Or does it just have that much more powerful and lower LFE?

Thanks for all of your feedback! I'd appreciate any more help. But for now, I'll just enjoy the movies that I can at -12, and decrease the volume for the small amount of movies that make my sub pop at -12.