"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 904

Might be only one measurement. I forget.

Jeff

Not purists since they are starting with a digital source and ending up with an analog signal, just like the rest of us. The only difference is where one does the various controls and conversions.

Maybe they're talking about vacuum tubes and vinyl.

If by degradation you mean some byproduct of signal processing--a distortion or other artefact, I'd tend to agree. But there are more reasons than that to so eschew. Like it does not meet one's preferences for spectral balance.

Same point Kal made. Even with vinyl, there can be digital conversions somewhere upstream in the chain.

Are you referring to the Audyssey Curve as opposed to something not intentionally rolled off? If so, engaging Audyssey Flat should "fix" it.

Jeff

Im testing a denon 3310 and a denon 3808 trying to figure out which one to keep, the problem im having is the subwoofer distance coming in way short on the 3808, when I put the 3310 in its place with everything exactly the same the subwoofer distance comes in a few feet over but from what i have read in the setup guide that's ok, but why cant i get the sub distance nailed on the 3808? im also using two different mic's, the one that came with the 3310 and the one that came with the 3808. any help would be appreciated.

I have a denon 1909 and have used two mics, the denon supplied mic and a pioneer auto setup mic, between the two mics, the only changes where the EQ/filter and speaker level trims, all else was the same with Xovers and speaker size and distances.

im not using two mics on the same receiver, I was trying to say that im using the mic specific to each receiver and trying to figure out why the 3808 is giving me short readings

As you should.

Sometimes the shorter detected difference just remains a mystery. I have seen the comment from Audyssey/audyssey to, in that case, simply set the distance to the physical distance.

Your earlier comment about the quality of the bass was interesting. Perhaps you should take some time to find the best place for the subwoofer before setting up Audysey.

As well as room gain, which should reduce low levels. The low end of my smallest surround speaker is a tested 50Hz in room! I have connected the speakers with single wire, Instead of bi-amping. I auto calibrated once more and now get a setting of 80 on the HPF/LPF? This is a far cry from the 180hz I was getting in bi- amped mode. I thought you once told me the Marantz LPF/HPF should be set at 120? The sub output is a little weak at this setting as well. Should I be O.K. Raising the db on the subwoofer setting? As long as I don't adjust the distance or reduce the LPF/HPF, should keep all other calibrations intact? Thanks

j

Bi-amping or bi-wiring?

LPF is something entirely different from the crossover. The LPF should always be at 120Hz. I suggest you do some research on bass management.

I don't know your particular history but it's common for accurate bass to be perceived as weak. I suggest living with it for a while just to get used to it and if you still feel the need for extra bass then turning up that channels' level won't have any ill effect on what Audyssey has done.

Whitenoise - which Marantz AVR are you using? I had the 6003, which despite having MultEQ - did not include Dynamic EQ or Dynamic Volume. So even when properly calibrated - the Marantz produced weak bass when listening below reference levels. The solutions to the problem included turning Audyssey off (not recommended) or increasing sub trim on the receiver to achieve desired level of bass. Keep the LPF at 120 - it really has no impact on sub output - only reproduces signal from the ".1" part of your 5.1 or 7.1 setup. Also experiment with your speaker crossovers, although again you are limited by Marantz to a single crossover for all speakers - try 80, 90 & 100 to see if that helps. I eventually solved the problem by trading out the 6003 for a Denon 2809 which also provided XT as well as discrete crossover settings for each speaker.

I agree. Bass should be felt more than "heard". It should usually blend with the rest of the sound you are hearing and provide a foundation for it. Of course some bass is meant to be heard more directly....like a driving bassline in a song during a tense action sequence. But even then the sound should feel like it is coming from the screen, not the subs.

Also do some research on 'bi-amping' (more specifically, passive bi-amping). Not a discussion for this thread, but you may be surprised what you learn.

Hi game, this has been discussed here in a couple of posts before, so namely, the theory of 80 Hz crossover used for bass management derives from the fact that this is the frequency from which downward our human ears loose the ability to localize the sound source. This phenomenon is very useful for implementing a sub in the system of bass management with the followings taken into consideration:

1. LFE (Low Frequency Effects) in movies with a 5.1 surround recording will be crammed into the 0.1 (sub) channel, you know, all those rumblings, explosions, steps of dinosaurs, etc., coz these sounds do not really need to be localized by the listeners, or as you say, best is to "feel" it. Feeling has no direction, eh? Well, unless someone has the ability to feel from the Front Right! Just kidding!

2. In case of music the bass guitar (as in your example) can still be localized by the human ears owing to the simple fact that even though the base frequency of the bass is routed to the sub channel the harmonics (provided there are harmonics over 80 Hz in a bass guitar note) will be shooting from the satellites. For example you/we will still be able to hear the bass guitar, say, from the Left Front speaker coz the harmonics contents will be responsible for localization of sound, yet thanks to bass management theory the base frequency is still coming from the sub. As we see, even though the electric signal has been split by its frequency contents and routed to different channels and their respective speakers placed at different physical locations, our perception did not suffer anything. A very clever way to trick the human ear, eh?

Well, not really, at least with music. I've learned thanks to Audyssey and room treatments that there is lots to be "heard" in the bottom end. You know you've got it right when you can hear the how the body of an acoustic bass guitar affects the tone, coupled with the proper decay depending on how the artist manages the strings even on the lowest of notes.
I don't know the proper nomenclature but there is definitely what I call "tonality" in the bottom end and not just oomph.

Is it recommended to run Audyssey again if you make a change to your avr speaker impedance setting? I read you should always leave your setting at the "default", or highest setting, so I changed mine from 4ohm to 6ohm and noticed an increase in volume. I also noticed the avr was much warmer than it has ever been, but most say to leave it at the higher setting due to limitations in the lower setting.

Independent of the answer to your question, you might want to consider an external power amp if you are pushing your AVRs amps hard.

Mike

Hi rnrgagne,

I love this word: "oomph".

I think that "word" should describe the base frequency of a bass guitar string perfectly. Ok, so let's expand on this subject and call the harmonics of "oomph" by the name of "whee". Maybe that's a tad bit too much, so let's get down to "whoo". So, "oomph + whoo" is what the bass guitar produces, and that's what is split into satellites and sub respectively while doing bass management, isn't it? And while "oomph" is penetrating all over the room, it's "whoo" that makes it possible to localize the source.

Thanks for your clarification! Have a nice weekend, All.

Ha, ha, sure... a new term for second & third order harmonics. We could also go Huey, Duey & Lui or Larry, Moe & Curly......

The bottom line is there's more to bass than what you feel.

Exactly. Thanks.

the thing that has me confused is the fact that the 3310 picks up the sub distance fine but the 3808 will not. everything is exactly the same, just switching the receiver.

Try disconnecting all the sources from the AVRs. It could be that electrical noise is playing a role in one case, but not the other.

Yes I know crossovers and LPF/HPF are different! I was asking Chris what the Marantz should be set, as he once told me. Marantz sets it somewhat different and everytime I auto E.Q. The LPF/HPF is a different setting, even when setting everything the exact same way. I was also talking about Bi-Amping my main speakers, not bi-wiring! I see you know the LPF/HPF setting should be 120. I thank you!

I'm just curious about Audyssey Pro and people's experience. Is it pretty much guaranteed to make a sound system sound better? Has anyone reading used it and preferred it off?

Do you know me, have we met? " Look" if you have something helpful to say, then I appreciate it. Otherwise I dont know why you would assume I don't know the differences between bi-amping, passive and active crossovers and their influences, just because I had a question about how auto eq might be effecting it or vice versa.

It does seem to "tame" a system, imo. So if you like your audio loud and harsh, then you might prefer to not use it. Or, of course, if you prefer to make the adjustments on your own.

But I like it.

I have the 5003. I certainly appreciate all the tips, seeing as you had both units to compare this helps a lot! I do like the sound quality of the Marantz and I will see if it's worth to hold onto for a bit longer. Who knows though I wouldn't rule out a Denon in the future of even Audyssey Pro, if I knew for sure it would help that much more! Also considering how Denon and marantz are now part of the same company one can only hope new eqipment gets the best qualities of both brands as well as features. I also hope Marantz retains the sound quality while improving upon its chipset in particular!