"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 94

The problem with the single position subwoofer level using the RS meter is that the RS meter uses an RMS detector that doesn't know about frequency response. MultEQ uses a spectral (frequency response) method that looks at the total energy from the subwoofer in a particular frequency range and compares it to the total energy in the satellite speaker in a higher frequency range. So, it's not as sensitive to the standing wave problems that occur at individual frequencies when measuring with an SPL meter at a single position.

Chris

Doesn't sound like the new Onkyo 606 has Dynamic Volume. Will the other new Onkyo's (assuming there will be a 706 and 806) have Dynamic Volume?

Definition of Dynamic Volume Control?

Is this when the bass is raised as the volume is lowered? If so, my ancient Lexicon has that, and I assumed that most receivers had that by now.

not quite ...

http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dynamicVolume.html

Dynamic Volume addresses the problem of varying dynamic range (softest to loudest) as you watch a movie or change channels. It allows you to set the volume control to the level at which dialog is preferred and then not have to ever worry about explosions (or commercials) being too loud. Unlike other Audyssey technologies, this one is adjusted purely on user preference. Some, like Kal, will "never" use it because they always listen at reference level. Others want just a little of it and most will likely use it for late night listening.

Dynamic EQ addresses the problem of changes in human perception as the volume is lowered. Content is mixed at reference level and decisions about the octave-to-octave balance are made based on the listening curve at that level. If you turn the volume down from that (our statistics show most people listen at 10 dB below reference) then the response that you perceive changes significantly. Many attempts were made at solving this that were called "loudness correction", but they did not work for several reasons including: (i) they were just adjusting the bass with a bass shelf that sounded too boomy; (ii) they had no knowledge of the sound pressure level in the room and so had no reference; and (iii) they did not monitor the content, only the volume control setting. Because of MultEQ, we now know the SPL level in the room and Dynamic EQ monitors the content in all channels in real time so it makes continuous adjustment to the frequency response to account for soft and loud passages at a given volume setting. Also, we found in our research that the spatial perception of loudness changes. Dynamic EQ adjusts the level and response of the surround channels to maintain the same spatial impression at low levels as that at reference level.

Dynamic Volume includes Dynamic EQ.

What most receivers today is "night mode" that is a fixed compressor. It doesn't know about SPL and doesn't monitor the content. As a result, it often causes pumping artifacts that boost the level during short silence intervals between words in dialog, for example. Also, it has no loudness correction.

So, the short answer to your question is: No.

Chris

Well, hardly ever.

The parameters I use to determine listening level are the appropriate dynamic range and balance. Since I listen at that level, a local reference because my situation is music-based, not HT-based.

So, Dynamic Volume is less useful for me but, along with Dynamic EQ, it will be of use when I watch movies with my wife who complains about reference level listening.

Just checking to see if you're paying attention

Thanks for the very informative explanation, Chris. Yeah, I was thinking of the "loudness" function in my Lex, which changes the bass tilt as the volume is lowered. So, out of curiosity, does the Denon 3808 have this fancy Dynamic Volume/EQ feature, and if so, is it simple to turn it on/off for movies versus music?

thanks again

Chris, thanks for the great information. I'm very puzzled as to why this great feature is only unlocked with a Pro key? The number of people that could benefit from this neat feature is huge (everyone except Kal), yet only a tiny faction of people will spend the many hundreds of dollars for a pro calibration.

It would seem to me that it should be a feature included in the base product. Is there a technical reason why it can't be turned on in the base product?

Since the new Denon receivers have this feature and it appears Denon can enable paid feature updates, I'd even pay $50 to get DynamicEQ enabled but not really any more than that.

Yes the Denon has it, but you need Audyssey Pro service to turn it on.

Darrell,

If you change the trim levels then Dynamic EQ will be incorrect because it depends on the absolute SPL. The best way to change the level is to use the volume control. Dynamic EQ looks at that and adjusts accordingly, in addition to running a continuous loudness estimation on the content in real time.

Chris

Chris,

Thanks for the info.

Darrell

I am running Audyssey on the new Denon 5308. It is giving me some pretty odd settings.

First, I have Klipsch Ultra THXspeakers - the 650s across the front and dipole surrounds (5.1). SVS pb13 ultra subwoofer positioned to the right of the center channel between it and the front right speaker. 17Wx27Lx10h room.

First, even if I tell the receiver that I want the crossovers to all be THX standard (80hz all around, right?) as the speakers are made for, Audyssey still changes the crossovers to 60 hz, and even 40 hz for the center (I assume since its very close to the floor and getting bass reinforcement which audyssey sees as a speaker that plays deeper. The "speaker setup" still says I have thx crossovers set afterwaeds, but the Audyssey section of the menu gives those lower crossover points.

Secondly, the channel levels seem way off, even after running Audyssey twice. It came up with -7.5 for center, - 4.5 for front right and left, and +12 for the sub! Needless to say, very bass heavy and dialogue light. I can go change then with the RS meter, but all those changes defeats the purpose of Audyssey, right?

Any suggestions?
I took the measurements from 8 positions, as close as i could get the MIC to ear height, on a tripod, on the front three seats, then out in front of those seats, then slightly behind. All with a tripod.

It makes no difference what settings you enter before calibration. MultEQ will measure the speakers ignoring those settings so that it can determine the -3 dB point rolloff in the room. The numbers you are getting are perfectly normal for those speakers. We have the same set in our lab and measure the same numbers, particularly when close to the wall or floor. The Audyssey results menu simply tells you what Audyssey found. The speaker crossover menu tells you what you are actually applying.

What settings do you have on the SVS sub? You have to make sure that you have defeated any lowpass filter, set phase to 0, volume knob to midway point, and PEQ to OFF. All of those controls interfere with the measurement.

Is the first mic position in the center of your listening area? The levels and delays are calculated from the first position.

Chris

Just an FYI, on my HSU subs, I have to leave the volume at about 10%. Setting it at 50% is way too high. Even at 10%, the sub level in the setup routine gets put at -10, versus all other speakers in the +2/-2 range.

Are you using the Hsu 500w amp?

Don't they all ??? I think the loudness gene must be firmly attached to the male chromosome...

John

There isn't much room on the Y-chromosome. I think it has to do with interest in sound quality. If you don't care, then anything louder than that needed for comprehension of the dialog is too loud.

Ahh,,,But does a receiver with Dynamic EQ have Dynamic Volume?
So far the Onkyo's coming out for us consumer priced people are talking only about Dynamic EQ. I'm hoping, hoping this also means they have Dynamic Volume.

And thanks Audyssey for the info and response. I have been telling my friends about your interest in helping and how rare it is in this day and age for a company to have someone like you.

I like whispers to sound like whispers and explosions to sound like explosions. Everything else falls in between.

Sure. Me, too. We care.

Thanks, Chris. Yep the first position of the mic is in the center, ear level position. The SVS was set close to mid point, but probably a little less than, maybe at 10 o'clock. I can rerun with it set at mid point. I was just concerned with how bass heavy the sound was and little dialogue.

Hi Chris:

I recently updated my Integra dtr 8.8 with the new 1.08 firmware and the DSP update that was a correction for DTS-HD tracks that were causing the audio "bomb" with this unit. Apparently this was an Integra chip problem that was corrected with a firmware solution. I had saved my Audyssey Pro settings as suggested, but this upgrade did wipe out the Audyssey Pro settings. I did the recall proceedure, but the display says...Store failed. Previously..before the update the settings were stored. Some other owners using Onkyo/Integra products and who also did this update indicated that all the audyssey settings were lost.

Can the Pro installer reload the Audyseey settings off his computer? What options do I have other than paying for an entire recalibration...which I am not sure I would do with the over $500 cost. I appreciate your help and advice....as well as other that might want to comment.

I do not think so. I have a Pro kit and have never been able to re-enter the data from the PC into the AVR or pre/pro.


Dunno.

Onkyo really should have a full backup/restore option like the Denon's do. I would really pissed if I lost $500 worth of calibration data just because of a firmware update. Even if Onkyo didn't provide backup/restore, IMHO the Audyssey Pro software should have it. If the software does not, that seems like a MAJOR oversight in the product.

Maybe Onkyo or Audyssey can arrange something with your calibrator so it costs you very little to restore what was lost.

The situation that drmiller finds himself in was speculated about and even anticipated by some here - hi Kal - some time ago. I don't recall seeing any official comment from audyssey regarding reloading settings from the Pro software. I hope that changes.

There is no way to do that with the current Pro software. The data is encrypted for Audyssey's internal use in their databases. No on-site access or use is possible at this time.

Boy, would I love to be wrong!!!

Tocaje, I appreciate your nice words. Thanks.

The receivers announced by Onkyo for release this month have Dynamic EQ only. Dynamic Volume will become available in products later in 2008.

Chris

Wow, that's not good. Please PM me with the info of your installer and we will try to arrange something. The current software that Audyssey installers use does not allow them to save the measurements for them to reload.

Chris

Chris- It does raise the issue of who owns the data. Is it the installer who did the work or is it the consumer who paid for it? I do not question Audyssey's right to access it but there should be some consideration of these issues in the face of data loss.