"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 110

The mics are the same for these units.
Chris

So the birdies are talking about this upgrade for existing units, not just newly produced units? i.e., no need to wait for the new units to (maybe) get this feature? Any idea (if it happens at all) whether this will likely be a firmware upgrade vs a "send it to a service center" to get hw type upgrade?

That would have to be a question directed to "the birdies".

Chris

yng....

I found with medication the talking bird thing is very manageable.

Quick question about Pure Direct and Audysseyon a Marantz 7001.

Just had my speakers placed for optimal imaging but I was told NOT to re-run Audyssey as this would negate any improvements in where they were placed.

My question is: If I DO rerun Audyssey to update distances and placement for a more accurate eq, can I override this by using Source or Pure Direct? Or is the distance and db corrections in the speaker set-up never overridden?

TIA.

D_

Someone more experienced then myself at this point needs to answer you so you have confidence in their reply. However part of what Audyssey is doing is precisely what you are talking about. Audyssey will dial in optimum imaging, staging, location of the visual image of the sound source to match the audio perception of the sound source. So if a singer is in the middle of the stage, a bass player way over to the right, Audyssey when properly used will assist in placement of the singer to be smack dab in the middle and the bass player to be way over to the right.

So I'm confused simply because Audyssey in part does exactly what you are saying you moved your speakers to accomplish. Not that it can make up for all your speakers being stacked on top of eachother. But it does take reasonably placed speakers and help dial in things like imaging, staging, etc.

Also you can turn on/off Audyssey so even if you run it, you don't HAVE to use it.

Chris,

Thanks for clarifying. So, based on my understanding here, quieter passages will sound louder because of the dynamic adjustments. During your research, did you encounter issues with the perception of decreased dynamic range, or do you also make adjustments to minimize this?

Thanks,

Chuck

I have read some discussions regarding the Audyssey high-frequency roll-off that is applied in Onkyo receivers in many cases. I understand that with the sr705, at least, you can indirectly revert to a flat Audyssey curve (but it needs to be set each time). And, others have discussed boosting the trebble a bit (I personally found the result to be a bit tinny, even when applying the smallest treble gain). Are there other techniques that can be applied to either defeat the high-frequency roll off curve or minimize its effect when calibrating the system? And, does anyone know whether the capability to choose the flat curve will be available in upcoming Onkyo receivers this year? I just purchased the sr605 but I am looking at returning it in favor of either a 606 (for DynamicEQ) or 706(presumably with DynamicEQ and MultEQ).

Thank you.

I agree that that is what Audyssey "should" be doing and that is does a respectable job. But also that it is only a start; sometimes it might get it bang on, other times it might need some additional manual adjustment.

From an eq perspective, I will trust Audyssey but here's the rub.

When I first ran Audyssey I went through 5 positions, matrixed around my "optimal" listening position. Distance measurements were pretty good and when I turned on the Audyssey eq it improved the sound (at least IMHO).

Coincidentally, I wasn't much impressed with Pure or Source Direct on my receiver. Audyssey had toned down the treble quite a bit and accentuated the mids.

After having my speakers "positioned" I was informed that my floor sloped up at the edges, which I knew, but what I didn't know was this was having a huge impact on the phasing (or time syncing ?) of my speakers. In fact, now they sound much better in Direct mode than with Audyssey on.

I know I can turn the Audyssey eq off but I liked the idea of rerunning it to improve room dynamics for my sub etc, especially for movies (my sub will now be a foot father away than it was). Thus my thinking was, for 2 channel purity just use either Direct mode and for movies and gaming rerun Audyssey to get the best multichannel experience. Ergo my question.

D_

I'd have to look to be 100 percent certain but I think in my Denon when I go to Pure Mode, Direct Mode, the fancy stuff is either turned off or I can choose to turn it off/on. One would have to think that philisophically if its "Pure" mode, there is no additional 3rd party fancy stuff going on.

I actually don't use Pure or Direct mode. Played with it of course. But for me I use 7 channel for most stereo inputs. So am not familiar with all the options and will have to look. Won't really help you with a Marantz but I can look later at my Denon to see.

To be clear I'm not saying you should ignore speaker placement. Just saying it isn't an either or situation. Audyssey is part of the mix when dialing in staging, presence, etc.

As with any EQ, it should be used as the final step in optimizing the sound, not a substitute for lack of something else. It's a fine tuning tool. Everything else should be as good as it can be before applying the EQ. That means proper speaker placement, proper seating location, treating at very least first reflection point etc. Audyssey isn't the "cure all". It has limits to what it can adjust for.

Yes, definitely rerun Audyssey, as your moving the speakers has compromised its effectiveness. The Source Direct and Pure Direct modes entirely disable any EQ and bass management, so distance and dB corrections are not made and MultEQ is off - you are listening to your system straight.

Okay, here's a proverbial "dumb" question--the instructions state that the mic is to be placed at ear height; is the ear height reference when in a seated position, or in a standing position?

It would be at the position of ear height while you are listening to movies/music. So it would be the seated position (for most people).

tone...

The answer is neither of those. It is ear level of the listening position. If you listen standing up, than it would be standing up. Laying on the floor or sitting in a bean bag chair almost on the floor, well it would be ear level when down on the floor.

LOL--see, I told you it was a stupid question...that's what I figured was being meant (ear height being ear level of listening position) but was looking for clarification.

Not stupid tone. Probably on the floor only realistic scenario. Not too likely someone will be standing up. One of my daughters routinely watches movies with her pillow on the floor in front of the tv. I did take one measurement that was down where she usually lays. Audyssey probably was going, "What is THIS?" But hey, it is an established and normal listening position in our room.

Here's another stupid question--the Audyssey instructions for prepping the subwoofer state the volume control on the sub should be "defeated"; I have a SVS PC-Plus sub, and AFAICT I can't see how the volume control (labeled as "gain" on the SVS) can be defeated (that, or I'm just being obtuse as to what exactly is meant by "defeating" the volume control)--the control knob ranges from "min" to "max". Should the volume knob (ideally) be set to the min position, max position, or somewhere in between...for purposes of running the Audyssey calibration?

Thanks!

I'm pretty sure that it says that crossover/filter should be defeated, phase should be zero and the gain/volume should be midway.

so if one is using a BFD & REW to correct one's sub and then they throw Audyssey into the mix then is there a reason why the following process is 'bad'

1. run the BFD with no filters (to capture the delay induced by the BFD)
2. run audyssey to set distances/levels
3. EQ to flat
4. run audyssey 'properly'
5. EQ the audyssey'ed response to induce the house curve

I have no qualms about using audyssey, it is quite obviously better than not using it however I find that it does a relatively poor job at low frequencies. The REW waterfall graph gives me some indication of what is happening in the time domain & frankly I don't really understand how to interpret the impulse response graph so can't comment on what that says. The waterfall alone tells me that audyssey is not doing anything to my sub that my BFD can't do while doing it outside of my control hence not to my taste.

The question is whether me gaming audyssey in this way is a bad thing for reasons I'm not aware of. FWIW I have had good results with my old sub (a BK Monolith, no link allowed due to spam rules) but I've recently acquired a SVS PB12Ultra which, initial readings suggest, might be a bit harder to integrate (with audyssey); not least because it has significant output <20Hz hence outside the BFD range and hence audyssey seems to want to do 2 things;

• apply a relatively narrow filter at ~22Hz (and I can see from the waterfall that the cut is applied but then overwhelmed by the room response after 150ms or so)
• indicate to my Onkyo 805 that my mains (M&K S85s) are full range (whereas before they set the crossover at 90Hz which is about right)

the room is 14' x 12' x 10' albeit with an open fireplace

Cheers
Matt

You probably already know this, but if your waterfall tells you have uncorrected long decays, then you have room problems that should be addressed with acoustical treatments before trying any electronic equalization.

uncorrected long decays,

I just hate it when that happens.

And delays, too.

unfortunately room treatments are not going to happen hence I have to do the best I can with the tools I have. A big (to our room) sub and a screen is one thing, bass treatments are a quite different ballpark.... one day though

Chris et al,

I have purchased a DEQ2496 to help tame my sub & room mode & potential house coupling at 31 Hz as discussed previously.

I will use the PEQ on the 2496 to cut any major room modes, then potentially notch the primary mode that is giving me trouble at 31 Hz as required to eliminate the house coupling. I may also need a low shelf at the bottom end to reduce the "boominess". I will resist the temptation to try to fully flatten the sub out with the PEQ.

What is the recommended procedure to integrate the PEQ with Audyssey? Should MultEQ be run with the PEQ active or bypassed?

Thanks,

Eric

My bad--I should have also mentioned that I was running the Audyssey setup on a Denon 3808ci; although the instructions in the 3808 owner's manual does mention that the subwoofer volume control be set to the "12 o'clock" position, it mentions doing that if it is not possible to defeat the volume control...hence my wondering as to exactly what is meant by "defeating" the volume control. Does it mean...disable the volume control circuit, turn the volume knob down all the way to zero/minimum, or something else?

Knowing Denon's manuals pretty well, I would guess it is a typo....intending you to defeat any filtering on the sub.

From what I've heard, you have to have a serial# associated with your AVR for the pro version of MultiEQ to work. So the question is, if you do a microprocessor reset, can you restore the MultiEQ w/o having to call for another serial number.

Correct the sub first, then run MultEQ. That way you get the benefit of the time-domain correction MultEQ can provide.

My little birdie had a Denon sticker attached. :-) Onkyo doesn't have DynamicEQ in the current software, so I have no idea what they are planning. Personally I'd be surprised if they added it, since it would be a new feature, unlike Denon that would just be allowing joe six pack to use an existing feature.