"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1152

Just how would you use that "tool?"

With respect to frequency response, I'd compare the mic and corresponding cal file to a known reference for testing of accuracy. If the two are close I'd feel comfortable with Audyssey's results.

It would hardly be that simple. However, even the cal file that is accessible, the individual one with the pro kit, is in a proprietary format. The oem cal file is in firmware and is not accessible.

With respect to frequency response why wouldn't it be, it's the frequency response that is tested for tolerance on the line therefore deemed of utmost importance. What would complicate the process in the field with this particular mic? Is it not referenced against a flat response?


Thanks.

You mean same results when used with the other mike's cal file?

Oh well, I don't have another mike anyway.

May I ask who you sent it to and how much the calibration was?

New AVR's/Pre-Pros w/ Audyssey MultEQ XT32??

Chris,

I decided to hold off (Which was very hard to do considering Santa was willing to be very generous this year) the purchase of a new Pre-Pro to replace my Denon 5805CI w/ XT as the absolute "must-have feature" for me is the new MultEQ XT32.

The Onkyo 5508/Integra 80.2 has too many "clicking" issues with DirecTV (and otherwise, but especially on DirecTV according to their respective Official threads) and the Denon 4311 has issues of its own, like blue rain and some other things that may indeed be fixed in newly produced units but I'm afraid I wouldn't know whether I'd get a "fixed" model or not since I'm forced to buy online since I have no local dealer offering a demo (or competitive price) in addition to reports of a HF boost issue several forum members are talking about.

I do understand Denon has confirmed what you already suspected, that there is no issue with the implementation of Audyssey, however, I cannot deny that users are experiencing HF boosts and although it most likely IS NOT due to Audyssey or the implementation thereof "something" is causing it. Until users are able to determine what is causing this and are able to find a fix for it (It absolutely may be a combination of bad tweeters for some users and simply different measurement positions, moving of equipment, etc, that all add up to seem like an Audyssey implementation problem but really is just several different groups of different problems causing the same end result) I'm uncomfortable with purchasing the 4311 at this point.

This leaves me with absolutely no currently available/shipping option.

I was very excited about both CEDIA and CES this year because I thought for sure that some new products (Hoping for a new Marantz flagship model upgrade w/ XT32) would show up w/ XT32, but so far, I've only found ONE that "may" have XT32.

The NAD T787, which is supposed to start shipping 1st qtr 2011 (So any time now??) according to HT Magazine (Retails for $3499 and includes a pretty cool modular design that supposedly creates the "never will become obsolete" model, but we all see how the Integra Research RDC-7 modular design turned out....Out of business and it wouldn't matter anyway since it seems as with ALL manufacturers as soon as a new model year comes out, support/upgrades and even new firmware ceases to be produced for former models) looks pretty interesting.

I've searched all over though, and cannot confirm that the new NAD T787 will include XT32. Can you tell me if this model will indeed offer XT32 plus Audyssey Pro support?

Can you also please tell us of ANY OTHER models (Specifics would be great, but if you can't do that, "at least" specific "manufacturer's" if not model numbers, or at the absolute least simply confirm new models "very soon" will offer XT32) coming out in the 1st or even 2nd qtr of 2011?

I have so many reasons for wanting to upgrade but also see every reason to wait just a bit longer to take advantage of MultEQ XT32!

Thanks!

--J

^^^ Not to speak for the 3DAA (for full disclosure, I have been consulting for them and was part of their CES panel to discuss the concept as a whole)...

You are lumping a bunch of ideas, technologies (both existing and future,) proposed standards and delivery mediums, work methodologies, and companies together.

This isn't the place for discussion, IMO, for what 3DAA is and isn't. It need to be made clear that room correction, Audyssey, DSX, number of speaker channels, formats, codecs, SRS, etc.. are all part of an overall eco system... sometimes related sometimes not.

But in reading your post, you are simply ganging together too many different concepts that aren't inter related like you are stating (for example what Scott Wilkinson heard was a demo of new, unreleased SRS technology, which has nothing to do with 3DAA, or 3D audio, even though Alan is involved with both, they are not one and the same.. unless you are clear on what is what, as you can see, it becomes quite cloudy.)

Just trying to keep things separated before others start making assumptions about what SRS labs is up to and what the 3DAA is and isn't... and what either entities relationship to Audyssey may or may not be.

Sufficed to say, your post only confuses the issue....

Just my .02.

You never know what someone is going to do until you ask. Sometimes people will do something to help someone else out. I would send one of the mics back, if they were all that valuable. It isn't like I'm asking any big thing from Audyssey. I would call it a simple request for support from a valued customer. It is simple act of customer service. But then maybe some don't live in that world anymore.

I agree.. so you need to call Onkyo... you didn't buy the gear from Audyssey, nor did the manufacture the mics for Onkyo.

It should be chirping 10 times before increasing to the next higher level. Do you get an error message on the screen or does it just stop? What happens when it stops? Is the receiver still running?

Mics can get damaged, especially if zapped with static electricity. But, usually the damage is fatal: they no longer work. We would be happy to send you a mic if you send yours to us for testing. Please PM with shipping info.

Whew... I just finished reading your post.

1. There is no issue with the 4311 that anyone at Audyssey or Denon can find. We have tested and re-tested production units and there is nothing to indicate a problem.

2. I can't discuss any plans for future products by our licensees.

You completely lost me on the SRS connection. There is none.

First, I want to thank you for your contribution to this thread. I've read many of your posts and find your information extremely valuable. I've learned a lot reading your posts over the past few months!

I was only asking about 3D Audio in relation to Audyssey working with either SRS or 3DAA and in the confusion of my way-too-large and um.....enthusiastic post I understand I may have overstated some things and have edited all 3D Audio/3DAA comments out of my original post, as I agree it was too much for one post.

I disagree that it was OT though for the simple reason that Alan SPECIFICALLY mentioned Audyssey and its current implementation of DSX and how (he assumes) DSX "assumes" the extra channels and hinted towards working directly with Audyssey to implement some sort of future 3D Audio technology and the way I understood him, we could even start seeing hardware some time this year.

Since I am currently looking to upgrade and not satisfied with my current options since Audyssey MultEQ XT32 is a "must-have" for me and not a mere feature I can take or leave, I thought it might be interesting to open a discussion here, relating to Audyssey's involvement (or apparently now confirmed lack thereof) in the roll-out of this new technology and how it might just coincide with my upgrade to a new Pre-Pro and wishful thinking along with apparently mis-interpreting Alan's recent comments led me to believe I may just be able to upgrade sometime soon and get "both" technologies at the same time.



So as not to confuse fellow forum members regarding 3D Audio and Audyssey, and to not confuse the reader further by ganging together so many topics, I've deleted my original comments regarding said topics.

I am clear on what is what, however, I was unclear as to how a possible relationship between Alan and either SRS or 3DAA plus Audyssey might affect my buying decision for a new, high end/high priced (relatively speaking) piece of equipment that I can only afford to purchase every 3-5 years and therefore may have decided to hold-off on said purchase if the relationship could have been confirmed and it seemed promising that new technology would indeed be coming sometime in 2011.

I can PM you with a link to exactly what I heard if you are interested, which will show you how one could be easily confused as to the assumed relationship between Alan, SRS, and Audyssey, but in the interest of keeping this thread on topic and now that Chris has confirmed there is no such relationship, I won't bog down the thread with "gossip." I just don't want you to think I'm a gossip, wack-job, or trouble maker, lol

Simple case of getting overly excited about some promising new technology coming our way and for once in my life making a buying decision at the right time instead of the often stated, "Should've waited for that" or "Why didn't I get this last year" which I've been a victim of for the last few decades or so.

Again, thanks for your comments and input, not just on this topic, but everything you do. I'm sure we all value your time very much and I look forward to learning more from you! In fact, if you do have a link or two you could share with me that might help "clarify" instead of confuse me more on this topic, feel free to PM me!

Thanks,

--J

Lol, sorry Chris.

I edited the post down, but you've already had to suffer, so I suppose it doesn't help you too much now.

I clarified the comments re: the 4311 as it was not my original intention to state the issues holding me back from purchasing that device were due to the previously posted member's issues with Audyssey, rather there are physical/mechanical issues in BOTH the Integra and the Denon that have made me decide to wait.

I understand you cannot discuss future products, but the NAD T787 and I believe the T187 (Which the way I read it is a Pre-Pro version, and what I'd mostly be interested in, of the AVR T787) has already been announced and was even shown at CES. I don't believe it is shipping yet, but my question is simply will either of those units incorporate XT32 as NAD has stated, on their site, that it has Audyssey technology but they also said something strange, that I don't understand and hope you can clarify.

They stated they use Audyssey MultEQ Technology but they developed their own custom house curve. If that's the case, then does that mean they don't at least offer the consumer the choice to use the Audyssey curve, or is the Audyssey curve modified and you take it or leave it??

Again, I'm only asking about already announced, shown units, which are already advertised but may not yet be shipping.

If you can offer any clarification as to either the version of MultEQ implemented by NAD in the T187/787 products and whether or not we'll still have the option for the standard Audyssey curve or not and exactly what NAD has "modified" I'd really appreciate it!

Thanks,

--J

I recently contacted NAD about an XT32 upgrade, and an upgraded DSP board will be available around the release of the new line of product that include XT32 and PRO capabilities. I did not get any info on wether this updated DSP will be part of the new lineup or an upgrade option, but I would assume the upgraded DSP is a selling point for the new line. I asked in regards to upgrading a T175HD and M15HD, and both will be upgadeable to the new DSP. I can dig up the exact email from NAD if you want.

I had the original T175. That had the NAD target as well as a FLAT target. No 'Audyssey' target. The NAD target is elevated lows compared to the Audyssey curve.

Chris,
are you sure about 2007? Looking at some models and years it seems more like 2009...

2007: TX-SR875 puckshape mic
2008-Aug: TX-SR876 ACM1
2009-Aug: TX-SR707 ACM1 (skoobydoo's)
2009-Aug: TX-NR3007 ACM1H
2010-Aug: TX-NR3008 ACM1H

What is odd that the TX-SR707 and the TX-NR3007 has different mics even though they were announced only 2 weeks apart.
What is even more worrying is that shoponkyo (http://www.shoponkyo.com/products.cfm?group_id=11) lists the same
replacement mic for TX-SR876 , TX-SR707 , TX-NR3007 and the TX-NR3008 : Part number: 245044 Description: MIC MIC-7000
I get the uncanny feeling that Onkyo has no idea that the ACM1 and the ACM1H can not be interchanged...

scionfriar, I gave you bad advice. I was only speculating about the way your receiver would work, but that speculation was incorrect. Thanks to batpig, you got the right advice.

Jeff

It's referenced against a multi-$k test instrument. Most of us don't have one of those lying around. As I understand it, to check the accuracy of any given device, one must use a device that is an order of magnitude - or two - more accurate.

Chris has explained how the Pro mics are calibrated (as I just mentioned) and he has also explained how the consumer mics are individually checked for operation within the +/-2dB tolerance. IMO, to go on and on about this is pointless.

Jeff

I'm not going on and on about anything, I asked Chris two specific fairly benign questions which as yet neither have been answered. What's pointless is you going on and on with non answers.

Edit: Starting reading backwards and didn't have to go very far find the answers and the source of your on and on comment.

Check your PMs.

I have a question for the technical experts here...

Is there any adverse effect on Audyssey's correction if you make individual trim adjustments afterward, such as bumping up the sub channel a few dB? I was under the impression that it was ok, but now I'm being told otherwise. Thanks.

You can make trim adjustments without undoing Audyssey's corrections. I'd recommend "moderation" though. If you bump a sub too much, you no longer have flat bass.

Jeff

It wont change the Audyssey settings when you up your Bass. Just be aware you have moved from reference to preference.

Looks to me like they designed it, tested it, put their name on it, support it on this thread and they stand behind it.

So if you leave the sub alone but raise all the other speakers a db or 2 in order to get 75 db at your personal seat, will that decrease the effective bass level? I mean the relative level below the xovers would be less?

Yes, if you raise everything but the sub, then the sub will be relatively lower. Is it important to you that you have exactly 75dB at your seat?

Did you know that Radio Shack meters are very good for measuring relative levels, e.g. this speaker is 3dB louder than that one, but terrible for absolute measurements, e.g. this speaker measures 75dB?

My meter consistently measure 3.5dB low ....

Jeff

Hi Joel,

Your question presupposes that your SPL meter is correct and the Audyssey microphone is incorrect. Are you using a meter that has much better tolerances? For example, I believe the Audyssey consumer microphones have a slightly better tolerance than the new Radio Shack SPL meters.


If you don't have a much more accurate SPL meter than the Audyssey microphone then it doesn't make sense to change anything. If your meter is much more accurate then perhaps you should also be adjusting the subwoofer levels as well, and your question becomes moot.

Using different devices to adjust different channels seems to be logically inconsistent.

Larry

I have a pro quality meter phonic paa3 but given the issue with the cross overs perhaps best not to tweak. I use two subs and think best not to touch Audyssey Calibration of those.

Did you know it's what we use to SPL our dubbing stages every day... they are reliable and accurate when calibrated.

They are certainly the right price!