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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1196

post #35851 of 62249
2/2/11 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Don't know how good MCACC performs (did anybody ever post any real world graphs?) but you should definitely get an AVR that equalizes the subwoofer(s).

What about the entry level Denons?
Had a Pio '94 with MCACC. Went to the Integra DHC 9.9 and installed Pro. Went back to Pio SC-37 with MCACC. MCACC is easier to setup and I wanted control of my bass and MCACC allows that.
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post #35852 of 62249
2/2/11 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

Had a Pio '94 with MCACC. Went to the Integra DHC 9.9 and installed Pro. Went back to Pio SC-37 with MCACC. MCACC is easier to setup and I wanted control of my bass and MCACC allows that.

What kind of control do you have in mind?
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post #35853 of 62249
2/2/11 at 10:03am
It is my understanding the Audyssey does not allow you to make any manual adjustments or fine tuning of speaker size, distance, or levels unless you disable Audyssey, is this accurate?


Is there any way to copy Audyssey settings and manually enter them for eq/etc to achieve desired results?

Also with Pioneer's MCACC you are able to adjust all the above settings for each channel including BASS manually while keeping all the channels EQ settings...can one do the same on the Denon w/ XT32?
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post #35854 of 62249
2/2/11 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

It is my understanding the Audyssey does not allow you to make any manual adjustments or fine tuning of speaker size, distance, or levels unless you disable Audyssey, is this accurate?


Is there any way to copy Audyssey settings and manually enter them for eq/etc to achieve desired results?

Also with Pioneer's MCACC you are able to adjust all the above settings for each channel including BASS manually while keeping all the channels EQ settings...can one do the same on the Denon w/ XT32?

Not sure about other manufacturers, but with the Onkyo, you can manually change levels, speaker size/crossover and distances after Audyssey calibration while still retaining the Audyssey functionality.

The only thing you can't manually change while retaining Audyssey is the EQ.


Max
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post #35855 of 62249
2/2/11 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Not sure about other manufacturers, but with the Onkyo, you can manually change levels, speaker size/crossover and distances after Audyssey calibration while still retaining the Audyssey functionality.

The only thing you can't manually change while retaining Audyssey is the EQ.


Max

And if you lower the crossover, content will then go to the channel that does not benefit from Audyssey filters because the filters were only created down to the (original) crossover.
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post #35856 of 62249
2/2/11 at 10:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post



Is there any way to copy Audyssey settings and manually enter them for eq/etc to achieve desired results?

No.
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post #35857 of 62249
2/2/11 at 10:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Snow day here in SE Michigan....
I've got a Denon AVR-4308CI (circia Dec-2007, upgraded the Audyssey feature pack), 7.1 spkrs Paradigm v5.0 Frt Monitor Series 9, Center CC-390, Rear/back surrounds ADP-390.
Room size is 18.5' long, 14.5' wide, 8.75' high.

Q1 (this post, Q2 next post):
I've finally started my acoustic panels in the HT and have some Q's related to before/after of the Audyssey info/graphs the AVR-4308CI will display.
Before shots:
LH wall


RH wall:


I plan on handling:
-side walls 1st reflections via OC703 2" thick 2' x 4'panels spaced 2" from the wall
- ceiling 1st reflections via OC705 4" thick 2' x 4'panels spaced 4" from the wall; both 1st row and 2nd row will each get (3) ceiling panels 2' x 4', an "acoustic cloud" 2' x 12' at their needed location.
- adding full floor/ceiling corner bass traps via OC705 superchunk 24" x 24" x 34" to rear wall/ceiling/floor.
-Frt top corner bass trap is tbd, rear wall diffusion is tbd

So far, I've made and installed the side wall treatments.
LH side-------------------------------RH side


Here are some picts of my Audyssey levels before/after panels installed.

Sorry for blurry, my tripod was not tightened on these 0.4 sec exposures....did not notice till after taken

Baseline-Before acoustics Channel level


After side wall panels installed Channel level


Baseline-Before acoustics Channel level


After side wall panels installed Channel level


The frt RH/LH mains levels adj up (less -db), all others basically same, which is sorta expected because I did only 3 seat points and that was 2rd row middle seats, so they saw improvements of side panels but center really needs the ceiling treatments also, which I'm doing this weekend.

Q1:
Besides my "guess" above, what else can be garnered by the channel level data?

My RT60 is still to high and Audyssey therefore is "on average" dialing it down (weighted avg of the EQ curves in next post)

I'm also curious my side/back surrounds need so much -db applied, will be interesting to see after the ceiling treatments how they all change...any speculations?

Those wall panels look identical to mine.
Rives?

Mike
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post #35858 of 62249
2/2/11 at 10:53am
When replying to a post with a boatload of images, please do not include images that are not relevant to your reply. Otherwise, this thread gets pushed w-a-y longer, w-a-y faster than it needs to be.

Thanks, everyone.

Hi Mike.

Jeff
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post #35859 of 62249
2/2/11 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

When replying to a post with a boatload of images, please do not include images that are not relevant to your reply. Otherwise, this thread is pushed w-a-y longer than it needs to be.

Thanks, everyone.

Hi Mike.

Jeff

Good point.
That's what happens when I try to eat pizza as I surf and reply to threads.


Mike
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post #35860 of 62249
2/2/11 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Not sure about other manufacturers, but with the Onkyo, you can manually change levels, speaker size/crossover and distances after Audyssey calibration while still retaining the Audyssey functionality.

And adjust (-10 dB to +10 dB in 2 dB steps) Treble and Bass for all channels as well as the Bass for the subwoofer(s) except when the Direct, Pure Audio or any THX listening mode is selected (unless Preserve THX Settings is set to No).
At least for my Onkyo TX-NR3007.
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post #35861 of 62249
2/2/11 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_WI View Post

Those wall panels look identical to mine.
Rives?

Mike

My own DIY design using OC703 from ats acoustics, I wanted a rustic look so used 1 x 4 pine + stain and black drywall screws, I've not seen the Rives one.
I'll be posting a DIY construction thread for the "hangable" style acoustic panels, both side wall and ceiling, in the "Dedicated Theater Design & Construction" forum later this week.
Currently there are only threads for Fabric frames, which are integrated as part of the wall itself, not hanging and locatable to where only needed.
For now, here's a post with some details, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post19908230

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

When replying to a post with a boatload of images, please do not include images that are not relevant to your reply. Otherwise, this thread gets pushed w-a-y longer, w-a-y faster than it needs to be.
Thanks, everyone.
Hi Mike.
Jeff

I agree, to bad avs forum does not have the [timg] tags, where for re-posting you can make the image a very small version of the original, yet still clickable for same size viewing.
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post #35862 of 62249
2/2/11 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

It is my understanding the Audyssey does not allow you to make any manual adjustments or fine tuning of speaker size, distance, or levels unless you disable Audyssey, is this accurate?

No, it's not accurate.

Quote:


Is there any way to copy Audyssey settings and manually enter them for eq/etc to achieve desired results?

The Marantz AV7005 allows the user to copy the "Audyssey Flat" EQ into a separate set of settings which can be manually tweaked.

Remember, Audyssey is embedded subsystem. Manufacturers add the user interface on top of that, so they can allow or disallow various ways of interacting with Audyssey.
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post #35863 of 62249
2/2/11 at 11:36am
just to be clear, that "copy" of the Flat EQ is NOT the same thing as Audyssey's filters... the "tweaking" you are doing is to a rough, graphic EQ approximation of the Audyssey EQ and it disables other Audyssey processing (like Dynamic EQ).

Only the Pro Kit directly allows you to tweak the target curve (EQ).
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post #35864 of 62249
2/2/11 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

Not sure about other manufacturers, but with the Onkyo, you can manually change levels, speaker size/crossover and distances after Audyssey calibration while still retaining the Audyssey functionality.

The only thing you can't manually change while retaining Audyssey is the EQ.


Max

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

And if you lower the crossover, content will then go to the channel that does not benefit from Audyssey filters because the filters were only created down to the (original) crossover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

No.

That sounds a bit restrictive for fine tuning. So there is no manual mode for EQ and channel levels, distance, speaker settings?

If there is you'd have to just record settings and apply or is EQ always disable in manual mode?

What is the consensus for those that have used Audyssey vs. MCACC?
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post #35865 of 62249
2/2/11 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Onkyo didn't do a complete implementation in the the x007 models.
Why? Ask Onkyo...

When Chris says Onkyo only decided to implement 2 in to 2 out, that doesn't really mean anything to me - if I connect a Y splitter to Sub 1 outlet and then two subs to it, and tell the 5007 that I have one sub, I have a 1 in to 2 out arrangement, so we're back to square one. The point I am rying to get across is that 2 in to 2 out seems to have no actual use as far as I can tell from the posts on here. When would you use it?

Kind Regards,

Keith
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post #35866 of 62249
2/2/11 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

That sounds a bit restrictive for fine tuning. So there is no manual mode for EQ and channel levels, distance, speaker settings?

If there is you'd have to just record settings and apply or is EQ always disable in manual mode?

What is the consensus for those that have used Audyssey vs. MCACC?

I have used both Audyssey Pro and MCACC. You can tweak the Manual MCACC setting all you want. Or, you can go with full auto MCACC.
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post #35867 of 62249
2/2/11 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

When would you use it?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post19936948
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post #35868 of 62249
2/2/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I have used both Audyssey Pro and MCACC. You can tweak the Manual MCACC setting all you want.

Still trying to find out what that really means. Is it a graphic EQ or parametric? If parametric, how many EQs? Is frequency and Q continuously variable?
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post #35869 of 62249
2/2/11 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotchaa View Post

That sounds a bit restrictive for fine tuning.

It is not for fine tuning.

Quote:


So there is no manual mode for EQ and channel levels, distance, speaker settings?

You can override the levels, crossovers and distance and maintain Audyssey correction. You can manually EQ the system, but then Audyssey is turned off.

There is another Audyssey product, a Pro Kit, that can be used on gear that is Pro-ready. The kit allows much more customization.
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post #35870 of 62249
2/2/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Still trying to find out what that really means. Is it a graphic EQ or parametric? If parametric, how many EQs? Is frequency and Q continuously variable?

It's a 5 or 9-band parametric EQ, (depending on what receiver you have), but you can only adjust center frequency, not Q. In it's Auto-MCACC mode, it measures 3 positions and performs a calibration of level distance, phase and EQ of each speaker. It also has a "standing wave reduction" feature. You can read the manual for a Pioneer receiver here:
http://pioneer.ipapercms.dk/Manuals/...C_LX83_manual/
The MCACC stuff starts on Page 100.

IMO, it's not nearly as "rigorous" a system as Audyssey. It has some "tweakability", but it's no where near as refined a product as Audyssey. It's kind of like running Audyssey for calibration and then shutting the Audyssey EQ off and using the manual PEQ. (IMO)

Craig
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post #35871 of 62249
2/2/11 at 3:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

It's a 5 or 9-band parametric EQ, (depending on what receiver you have), but you can only adjust center frequency, not Q. In it's Auto-MCACC mode, it measures 3 positions and performs a calibration of level distance, phase and EQ of each speaker. It also has a "standing wave reduction" feature. You can read the manual for a Pioneer receiver here:
http://pioneer.ipapercms.dk/Manuals/...C_LX83_manual/
The MCACC stuff starts on Page 100.

Looks like the Q can be set by the user.

5 to 9 parametric EQs are pretty useful for calibrating a single seat but the user would need to measure his room with additional gear in order to find the correct settings. In that case an automated solution like the Anti-Mode 8033 is easier to operate and will produce better results.

Optimizing several seats is a different beast and I think Audyssey is the only easy to use solution right now for single subwoofer setups (or multiple subwoofers treated like one subwoofer). Nevertheless, multiple subwoofers can produce much better results. Let's hope vendors keep on exploring the possibilities.
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post #35872 of 62249
2/2/11 at 4:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Looks like the Q can be set by the user.

5 to 9 parametric EQs are pretty useful for calibrating a single seat but the user would need to measure his room with additional gear in order to find the correct settings. In that case an automated solution like the Anti-Mode 8033 is easier to operate and will produce better results.

Optimizing several seats is a different beast and I think Audyssey is the only easy to use solution right now for single subwoofer setups (or multiple subwoofers treated like one subwoofer). Nevertheless, multiple subwoofers can produce much better results. Let's hope vendors keep on exploring the possibilities.

Some use BFD, SVS EQ1, and other standalone sub EQ's for bass and multiple seating. I can see MCACC being very useful for a living room (where stuff is always moved) or bedroom setup with one or two persons. Where Audyssey would be for a full HT room where everything has its place and stuff never moves.
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post #35873 of 62249
2/2/11 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

I can see MCACC being very useful for a living room (where stuff is always moved) or bedroom setup with one or two persons. Where Audyssey would be for a full HT room where everything has its place and stuff never moves.

That might be true for you but my home theater is my living room and stuff doesn't always move. I've yet to see any data on how MCACC performs but it's probably only useful for single seat optimizations whereas MultEQ tries to optimize multiple seats. Anyhow, if something in a room is changed you'd need to re-calibrate regardless which technology is used.
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post #35874 of 62249
2/2/11 at 4:41pm
Is anybody running there subs hot with deq engaged? I like alot of bass but I don't want to be the only one.
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post #35875 of 62249
2/2/11 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

That might be true for you but my home theater is my living room and stuff doesn't always move. I've yet to see any data on how MCACC performs but it's probably only useful for single seat optimizations whereas MultEQ tries to optimize multiple seats.

I've used them both and found that MCACC is more dynamic and doesn't do a flat SQ. It's like the difference with bass between a house curve and flat. I do use MCACC for 7 channel EQ and Audyssey Sub EQ with the Anti Mode for the LFE and bass. My living room is over 6000+ cu ft with openings to other parts of the house (18X28X12) Anti Mode combines all 4 sub outputs to one and Sub EQ then EQ's flat with one in and one out. Works for me as I had the Sub Eq and Installer Kit from when I had a Integra DHC 9.9 and now use the Pioneer SC-37 with external amps. Expensive way to do it but I already had it all sitting around from all my playing around with this hobby. It really is like crack, once you start its hard to stop (did quit smoking some 20 years ago and that was easier).
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post #35876 of 62249
2/2/11 at 4:52pm
^ I respect your choices and preferences. But Parametric EQ is sooo last century. Not only is it 1 seat specific, it is basically 1 listening level specific, is it not? I have repeatedly seen this talk of "user customizability" as a (very poor) rationale for MCACC over Audyssey.

And so what if the couch gets moved a little, or the pillows are on the floor, so the room isn't exactly like it was the last time you ran autosetup? Do you really think that in a blind A/B test you can tell the difference?
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post #35877 of 62249
2/2/11 at 5:07pm
I am going to be running x32 for the first time and I had a question about what to do about my subwoofer. I have an SVS PB 2 Plus and I'm not really sure what I do with it settings. Can someone give me some recommendations as what to do with the gain, phase, subsonic filter, crossover settings and the crossover disabled switch?

Also, I have speaker stands that place the tweeter just above ear level. I'm looking at getting new stands that will be 2" shorter. Will x32 be able to compensate for a tweeter being very close to ear level?

I've never heard, let alone run any Audyssey software, so I'm really stoked to hear what all the hype is about!
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post #35878 of 62249
2/2/11 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Do you really think that in a blind A/B test you can tell the difference?

True, then why spend all those $$$ on Audyssey everything when MCACC is cheaper. Like I said, if you have a full HT then spend the $$$ on Audyssey for the larger audience. If it is just you and another person, MCACC is just fine.
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post #35879 of 62249
2/2/11 at 5:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by james138 View Post

I am going to be running x32 for the first time and I had a question about what to do about my subwoofer. I have an SVS PB 2 Plus and I'm not really sure what I do with it settings. Can someone give me some recommendations as what to do with the gain, phase, subsonic filter, crossover settings and the crossover disabled switch?

Also, I have speaker stands that place the tweeter just above ear level. I'm looking at getting new stands that will be 2" shorter. Will x32 be able to compensate for a tweeter being very close to ear level?

I've never heard, let alone run any Audyssey software, so I'm really stoked to hear what all the hype is about!

Here's what I would do:

Gain - about 1/2 way
phase 0
subsonic filter off
crossover over 120hz or disable the crossover.

Audyssey will compensate for wherever the speakers are placed. Don't worry about 2 inches.

Take first audyssey measurement from ear level at your prime listening spot...put the microphone on a tripod away from the back of the sofa/chair. Then take measurements from the other positions you sit in, as long as they are within the focus of the two main front speakers. Take at least 3 measurements...and maybe take 1 at knee height and 2 more about 2' in front of where you sit.

Yes, you want the mid range notch/bump if offered and let dynamic eq default to on (dynamic volume off).

After calibration go in and manually set your speakers (other than the sub) to 80hz crossover point.

Ignore any speaker "out of phase" messages (after you double check your wiring)

Good luck
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post #35880 of 62249
2/2/11 at 6:10pm
For best info see page 1 of this thread.... but basicly:

Gain: Start with 5 (1 - 10)
Phase: 0
Subsonic: on? to filter out the lowest info...
Xover: OFF pref or highest it can go

I personally believe that yes with XT32 a 2" movement of the mic makes a difference so if your moving the speakers down (not necessary) that will make a small difference. Whether you can hear that difference is another thing entirely... But from experience its better to have tweeter level slightly higher than lower and having to aim up etc...

Its fun but a big learning curve especially it seems with XT32 and getting it to sound "just right"


My tip is just do 1 MLP mic calibration, save it and have a look at the graphs / levels / etc and then make any necessary speaker movements, toe in / changes then go back and redo Audyssey with the 8 mic locations....

Don't think of the mic positions as seats but more create a small rectangle "bubble" around the MLP with a few measurments in between the points - if you have a second row include that within the rectangle.

Have fun!

Edit - as ghstudio suggest go back in after audyssey finished and change all speakers to small and xover up to 80hz - if any are higher than that DONT lower them leave them as is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by james138 View Post

I am going to be running x32 for the first time and I had a question about what to do about my subwoofer. I have an SVS PB 2 Plus and I'm not really sure what I do with it settings. Can someone give me some recommendations as what to do with the gain, phase, subsonic filter, crossover settings and the crossover disabled switch?

Also, I have speaker stands that place the tweeter just above ear level. I'm looking at getting new stands that will be 2" shorter. Will x32 be able to compensate for a tweeter being very close to ear level?

I've never heard, let alone run any Audyssey software, so I'm really stoked to hear what all the hype is about!
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AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1)