"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1209

Quick question in regards to Audyssey. I have an Onkyo 606, which only has 3 spots to utilize it. My media room has 2 rows of seating. Audyssey calibrates the center, the right, and the left. Should I calibrate from the front row, the back row, or in the middle. I actually utilize both rows, depending on what I am watching.

Thanks for your help

Hello mahm,

Audyssey didn't recommend -15 for the sub trim level on your 886. What's going on is that -15 happens to be as low as the 886 will go, so there's really no idea where Audyssey would have set your sub trim level if it was allowed to do so without going up against the range limit of your 886. I know, 'cause I ran into the same problem when I first set up Audyssey. What I strongly suggest is for you to back off on the Volume (gain) control on your sub. The recommended 12 o'clock position is just something to get you into the ballpark. If you've set it at 12 o'clock try turning it down to around 10 o'clock. Then re-run Audyssey. You can just run through it for the first (MLP) position and check where Audyssey put the sub trim level on your 886. Audyssey will then have a chance to work its magic on your sub frequencies. Personally, I'm comfortable when Audyssey sets the sub gain in my AVR somewhere between -12 and -9. But it really doesn't matter as long as your sub trim level isn't pushing the -15 setting.

Cheers,
SB

In simple terms with the current 12 o'clock setting on your sub "knob", Audyssey adjusted volume for your sub to -15db (meaning your sub is producing too much bass and Audyssey had to trim it down -15db). However, the culprit is that -15db is the maximum that Audyssey can trim it down to, and there is a good chance I might have to go ever lower than that, but can't. If you reduce your sub volume by setting it at 9 or 10 o'clock, Audyssey might have better chance to adjust the -db value to appropriate level, without hitting the -15db bottom limit.

Hi guys

NOW I GET IT!

Thanks for clarifying that.

OK, so when i do the next calibration, i'll set the sub to 10 o'clock and see what happens.

Still confused about the rest of what was on page 27 of the Audyssey manual and the crossovers

But i have learned something in the last half hour

Keep the advice coming please folks!

mahm

Generally speaking doing "what" to a room allows audyssey to not boost the highs as much? Ie more curtains or what?

I've done about all I can think of....
If you want to go back a few pages and have a look at my room any help is grateful.

Thanks,
Matt

(a tired and sore eared 4311 owner!)

My uneducated guess would be to calibrate from the middle row

I just can't help thinking that working for Audyssey and doing these types of experiments must be the most fun job in the world. Maybe, when I retire, I can offer to work there for free as a janitor, provided I can listen in on these experiments.

Mark

I would say the opposite actually -- having more reflective surfaces would reduce the amount of high frequencies being absorbed and thus decrease the need for Audyssey to boost the highs.

I think it would also help if you:

1) Make sure that the LCR+ Wide speakers are raised so that their tweeters are at ear-height.

2) Point the tweeters of all speakers at your ears.

3) Use a tighter set of mic calibration positions. Don't measure too far from the MLP.

Mark

I ran Audyssey a few times with the Denon AVR-A100/4311. It always sets the sub 3 db below the Onkyo 5008. All the other reading are close to identical between the 2 receivers. Two frequency sweeps using an RS SPL meter showed a 3 db increase over the Onkyo at 5 KHz

I did a lot of back and forth listening tests, mostly in stereo and found the Onkyo to be the winner. Both units sound close and continued listening to either unit would satisfy most. But I found the Onkyo to be slightly more lively and dynamic in comparison. I think this may be due to the 32 bit DACs and the 3 transformers. As far as heat goes, the Onkyo is warmer in one area and cold in others. The Denon is warm all over. The total heat output is probably close to the same. A couple surprises were the speaker binding posts look identical. The front plate on the A100 sparkles in the sunlight. For me that is where the sparkle ended. In the end it is like comparing Garmin with a Tom Tom GPS. If you like menus, then get the Denon. If you like convenience and being able to adjust Video, Bass, Treble and Level on the fly, get the Onkyo. I don't think you can adjust the tone in Audyssey with the Denon. I much prefer the remote on the Onkyo. The Denon will drive 11 speakers with the addition of 2 more amps. With the Onkyo you have to give up the back speakers if you want high and wide at the same time. Denon seems to do the DSX setup a lot faster. May be more accurate, takes distance down to tenths. Denon wouldn't allow a 70 db crossover, like the Onkyo. With the graphs, I got what looks like the same results using a tripod and a mic boom.

My new construction build is prewired for in-ceiling 6.1 surround w/ only one back surround. I intend to add two bookshelf speakers for the fronts, then use the front in-ceiling speakers as the heights but will still only have ONE rear surround.

My question is: is one rear surround sufficient? This is not a reference system or anything but I would like to get the best sound possible for an in-ceiling installation based on my budget. The drywall is already set but I could get up in the attic and fish another speaker cable to the rear surround for 9.1 but the placement would be a little off center as the single rear is perfectly in the center of the room. Anyways, ramble over...I hope you get the gist of my question.

Thanks streetsmart - ye I currently have all speakers tilted up / down to MLP

I have heard a few times now about tighter mic positioning which I did with current slightly better sounding tune how tight are we talking here???

....a 1m by .5m rectangle over MLP?

mine was even tighter 12"
it will be done agin anyway adding more speakers soon
but sounds Killer with a 5008 Onk

And you did 8 positions with a 12" square over MLP? Far out!

Thanks. I will calculate it from in the middle if the 2 (the walkway so-to-speak). I can get Audyssey to set it to sound good for only the front row, or only the back row, but not both at the same time. I don't know if the Onkyo 3800 with Audyssey XT32, I think it is, which does up to 8 positions, would do better. Am looking to upgrade to that maybe over summer.

Thanks again.

Somehow, that is being interpreted incorrectly. "Make sure you select the same crossover frequency as what you enter into the preamplifier/processor" really means "make sure you enter the same crossover into the pre/pro that you selected" in the pulldown menu.

Actually, re-reading it a few times, I think it is the way it is worded that leads to the misinterpretation. It could be phrased better.

Jeff

That is what i mean Jeff

I didn't 'select' a crossover from the pull down menu (from the SEQ software on the laptop), but did select a crossover in the 886. That is why i reckon i did it wrong

Maybe Chris can come in at some point to clarify matters for us

Well if you didn't select crossover frequencies in the pulldown menus, then the defaults were used .. by default. You only need to enter those crossovers into the 886 after you complete the SEQ calibration. And you enter the distances and trims detected by MultEQ Pro, too.

Yes: connect the sub-out of your receiver to a line-in jack on a computer and run REW.

Yes, what batpig said, it followed the speaker though


Check with MA tech engineer, phase is not reversed in these speakers at all. Only ones they make that are is in ceiling. He also reported he tested a different model MA R6 with Pioneer's MCAA and it reported out of phase. He took it apart and checked and no mis-wiring. He suggested that since it followed the speaker I should check internal wiring but that it was low probability, but possible it was wired at the factory wrong. Any rate he is sending data back to UK to validate.


agree it doesn't matter where I place it phase error follows w/ Audyssey...


Interesting test was after I reversed polarity, ran Audyssey auto setup again, all tested fine. It also changed by speaker size in the front from SMALL to LARGE and the crossover was set to FULL. I am not sure what to make of this...

Yeah 4 up 6" & 4 down 6"
12 " square Right @ the recliner L O L
it is "The Man-Cave "

the wife let me have total control over the living room
I love Her !

you don't want to know what I had to give-up in return ....

I have only 1 back surround and find it quite adequate (room is 17' L and 13' W, and there is ~ 4' from MLP to back wall). I also have DSX Heights, so overall a 8.1 rig; works great in my room. (But all speakers are external, i.e., no inwall or inceiling ones.)

Yes, 1m x 0.5m is pretty tight. I use about 1.5m x 0.5m.

Mark

Cool. I'd just bookmarked REW and TruRTA. Mostly, I'm just curious what the curve looks like. (I have a Rythmik F-15).

Speaker detect error
Left Error.................................Right Error
surround left yes.........................Surround right yes
Front wide left no......................Front wide right no
Front high left no.......................Front high right no
Surround back left no................Surround back right no
Center yes...............................Subwoofer 1 ---

New onkyo 3008. Can't get past the first round of testing. Failure on the front right and left. I have tried reversing to test for out of phase.

Had no problem fully running audyssey with the denon 4311ci a few days ago.

any tips?

Actually that makes complete sense, with the LF drivers out of phase from L to R there would have been lots of cancellation. So before, Audyssey would detect poor LF response and set a high crossover point and speakers to SMALL and so your sub would do all the missing LF.

Now that you have corrected the phase error somewhere in your LF chain, Audyssey hears the fuller LF response and knows that your fronts are capable of full frequency response.

Now you can do a full calibration knowing that everything is correct, then reset the size to SMALL and 80Hz after and hear what the Audyssey Gods intended.

This topic of the size of the Audyssey bubble has come up many times before. I think ultimately it is good to experiment some within reason. I know that Audyssey's stance is that the bubble shouldn't be too small, even for one or two listeners. The more data Audyssey has about the listening area, the better it can prioritize what problems to deal with because they are "common" problems.

I find it odd that a video tutorial on Audyssey setup on AV forums in the UK, the guy says the front measurements should be 1 meter in front of the MLP, and then he proceeds to place the mic about half that distance for the measurements. A bit odd and sloppy IMHO.

The degree of optimization achievable for the prime listening position lessens with the extension of the measuring area, because more and more compromises have to be dealt with by the transfer function. My standard advise would be to cover a sphere of about 1/3 - 1/2 yard around the mathematical center between the ears at ears height for the prime listening position to garner the most from the measuring process. This should remove most of the local disturbances due to room modes.

Edit: darn! This has been answered prefectly by various users and the advice taken on board by the OP. That will teach me to reply without reading all the new posts! I haven’t the heart to delete it now



If the range only goes down to -15, the point is, how do you know it wouldn't have set it to -20 if it had been able to? That is SB's point I think.


You need to turn the sub down (using the sub's gain control) because at the moment Audyssey is setting it to the extent of its range at -15. If you turn down the sub gain you may find that Audyssey then sets it to, say, -12 or -10 and then you will be sure that it has been set properly and not just "run out of room' for adjustment further.


He means you are maxed out on the trim level (at -15dB). FWIW my subs run their gain control at 9 o'clock position and the trims read about -4.5 dB.
Don't worry about where the gain control is set on the sub - just aim for a final trim reading that is somewhere more towards the middle of the range of -15db to +15dB rather than maxed out at the -15dB limit.


That's encouraging!

SB - sorry to jump in here - I know you can answer this post perfectly well yourself - but I was here anyway...

Kind Regards,

Keith