"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1233

I try lots of things on my own .. things I have a modicum of understanding on going in. But I wouldn't consider giving myself an appendectomy.

Good to have you back, Gary.

I just purchased the Marantz 7005. I'm confused about the Audyssey settings. I have 3 front/center M&K S-150P (powered, bi-amped) speakers and 2 side plus 2 back M&K non-powered speakers. All speakers are the exact same design (3 vertical tweeters beside 2 midrange drivers). The only difference is the surrounds are non-powered. All the M&K's were designed to work with a strong sub and cross over at 80 Hz.

I took 8 measurements 2 times and I get slightly different levels but the same cross-overs . I get:

FL: 2.0
FR: 1.5
C: 2.5
Sub: 8.5
SL: 3.5
SR: 3.5
SBL: 5.0
SBR: 5.5

The Hi-pass filter is 80 Hz. The gain for the front/center speakers can be set between +6 to -6. The setting is now on "REF".

As I said, M&K is clear in their manual that the cross-over should always be 80 hz and the speakers are intended for use with a strong sub.

Yet the Audyssey set the Fronts/Center to 40 hz. With only tweeters and mid-range drivers, I wouldn't want to hear what they do with frequencies below 80. There's no doubt that my SVS Ultra will do a much better job with frequencies below 80 hz.

The side surrounds were set at 100 Hz and the S Backs were set at 90Hz.

I'll change the fronts/center to 80Hz. For the moment, I'll leave the surrounds where Audyssey set them -- but --

I don't understand why Audyssey set the cross-over at 40 Hz for speakers specifically designed to operate at 80 hz and above.

If I did something wrong I would prefer to blame myself than Audyssey.

Any ideas as to why the front cross-overs were set so low? Any suggestions for getting better results? Thank you.

Do you know the cost?

I would actually be using it for an old Denon 5805CI at first, so I assume "any" software version will work, if it is significantly cheaper for an older version.

The mic calibration file.... Is that something easy to replace, too? The mic has the serial number but the kit comes with no software of any kind.

If there is a link to all this info I'd greatly appreciate it or a PM if price talk is a no no here.

I just don't want to buy a used pro kit at what I think is an awesome price then find out after having to buy the software at "x" price I could've gotten a new kit for the same or not much more money.

I looked on the Audyssey web-site but only saw a link to "contact" about Pro stuff so I either looked right at it and didn't see it or it's not publicly shown so I figured I'd ask here.

Thanks for responding and offering your assistance! I've wanted to do a Pro tuning for a long time and finally be able to "see" my before graph's too, and put off buying the kit because I was going to get an Integra DHC-80.2 but now I'm waiting for either the new Outlaw or new year model's of Integra, Onkyo, Marantz or "whoever" to come out with more options for XT32 because that is the "must have" so I figured while I wait, if I can get a good deal on the pro kit it will tide me over.

--J

question: I read the guide!

but i have a bunch of ambient GIANT [EDIT] GENERATOR/WATERFALL TYPE noise in my apt that is constant and cannot be turned off . Being that this "noise" is ALWAYS present would it be best to setup Audissey WITH the noise or without it?

Glad you read the guide and I'm sure you'll find the results w/ Audyssey (Note spelling w/ a "Y") to be much better, but dumb question here... It obviously would be better without the noise but you state directly above that you cannot turn it off Am I reading this wrong??

Audyssey will make three attempts at its "chirps" at increasingly louder volumes to compensate for the noise floor of your room, but do try to make it as quiet as possible for the best results.

Do you have an SPL meter? If so, what is the reading, averaged, slow, c-weighted, of the noise floor in your room when it is as quiet as you can make it?

--Jason

I can turn it off for longer than 20 minutes.If longer living creatures will die. So the noise will be on during movies and such.

Therefore my "silent room" has a DB of say 58 (-2 on the meter). The meter range is set to 60, Weighted C, Slow.

Before I offer (my opinion only of course as others will surely chime in ) assuming you have MultEQ XT or above can you comfortably and accurately do a full 8 position calibration in that 20 minute time allotment?

If "not" when you do the first "MLP" how many (increasingly louder) sets of chirps does it play before asking for position 2? Does it accept the first "set" of chirps, play only one increasingly louder set, or two increasingly louder sets for a total of 3 on that first position?

If I recall correctly, the goal (well.. the goal is as quiet as possible of course) is to have the room noise under 45db.

I suppose the determination will be more easily made after these questions are answered.

Good luck!

--J

I believe the chirps increase in volume twice.

If this helps the sound comes from one side of the room too. Which is also more "open" (with two hall passages)

All you need is the serial number of the Installer kit. You can then register it at Audyssey's Installer website. If the kit has already been registered then you may need to contact Audyssey to have them re-register the kit to you. Attached to the serial number (in Audyssey's database) is the version of Audyssey MultEQ Pro that was purchased with the kit. From the Installer website you will be able to re-download the software and mic calibration file associated to your kit. The upgrade to v3 is $150 (if it wasn't purchased for the kit as some point). You can purchase it from the Installer website, as well as, licenses to calibrate AVRs (for $150 per license).

doug.

Where they are in your room, they measure lower than 80Hz. My M&K S-150s (same w/o powered) LCR also come up 40Hz. I set them to 100Hz, and you should probably bump them to 80Hz ... and enjoy.

My SS-150 surrounds (Tripole) are at 120Hz, and my SS-150 rear surrounds (monopole) are 100Hz.

In that case, since it is using the absolute loudest set of chirps to try and compensate, I'd make it as quiet as possible while doing the calibration, understanding that normal viewing won't be that quiet.

We all turn our projectors off, make sure the HVAC doesn't kick on, etc. You need to "add" a few things to that in your case but if your animals can survive comfortably just for a bit while you do the calibration, you'll get the most out of it.

Of course you know it is important to keep it as quiet as possible during the calibration or you wouldn't have known to ask, but due to your circumstances and the noise floor "as-is" I don't think you'll get the most out of your calibration.

I suppose as long as you don't get the "Noise floor too high" message or whatever it says on your AVR/Pre-Pro you "could" do it and you could always just try it, but again, if you can do it w/ your waterfalls, etc, off for 20-30 minutes or however long it takes you to do a full 8 point calibration, I think you'll reap the benefits.

I say this fully understanding that your "normal" noise floor will be louder during normal listening sessions, just to clarify.

If it helps, mine is too. I have a basement build, I don't have the HT (although it is dedicated) sound proofed, it's raining cats and dogs here and the sump pump has been on all day driving me crazy while I try to check out the 7.1 mix of Star Trek Original Series on Blu-Ray!

Good luck and let us know if we can help further!

--J

Thanks Doug!!

Awesome!

I thought I'd have to buy it all over again... Last question, I promise

Assuming here that it has an older version, since I'm going to be using it with a 2006 Denon 5805CI which I'm sure was in the very first version of the software, will I get any benefits w/ the newest version 3? Or is it really just to include newer model AVR/Pre-Pro support? If I can save the money, I will, but if there's some new feature, better calculations, etc, then I may just not be able to pass that up.

Thanks again for all your help. You've eased my mind a TON!

--J

Thanks - I've re-done the calibration!
It raised another question - Despite having all equipment "off" the chirps went to "level 2 loudness". What does this indicate?
I've setup "front highs" and they are being crossed over at 40hz which is weird because the speakers are rated @ 100hz.
I set them to 90 manually... ran the setup twice and it happened the second time as well

Those are questions for Audyssey as I am not very familiar with the 5805.

I am thinking there was a major hardware/firmware upgrade for that beast back in the day. I can't remember what functionality came with it or even if your's has that particular upgrade. I may be all wet here, but having that upgrade may make a difference between needing to upgrade to v3 or not. I am attaching the release notes for the latest build of v2.5 for your reading pleasure.

 

MultEQ Pro 2 5 Release Notes (build 237).pdf 23.328125k . file

If it successfully completed the setup, even at level 2, then you are good.

As for the speakers rated to 100Hz, in your room and where they are located, they measure lower .. to 40Hz. You correctly raised them.

Doug, v3 brings some additional features to Pro, doesn't it? Didn't the Curve Editor debut in 3?

(V3 is where I "came in" but I seem to remember reading that.)

Yeah, but I think he was wondering if there were any 'bug' fixes in v3 that would warrant him purchasing that version. I just looked at the setup guide for the Denon 5805 for v3 and it doesn't enable Dynamic EQ/Vol. That's what I thought would be the major advantage of v3. But you are correct, the curve editor would be available to him if he upgraded.

I wanted to upload the setup guide for him but it is too big.

PM me J and I will email it to you.

doug.

The "curve editor?" Would this allow me, for instance, to boost the bass frequencies all by 3db so I wouldn't have to use the tone controls and since I "can't" use the tone controls on THX modes? (I only use THX Surround EX on DD 5.1 mixes to get my 7.1 back channels and cannot use tone controls when using a THX mode) or is this to enable/disable mid compensation, etc?

Could you guys give me some examples (if there are any) of things you use in V3 that isn't available in 2.5?

BTW, there was one bug fix (Great memory!) for the original 5805 AFAIK but I have the 5805CI (3rd Gen, original model, not an upgraded older version) and have the latest firmware for it.

Thanks guys. I'll PM you Doug for the manual.

--J

It indicates the measured noise floor was still over 45db. If there is any way to get it quieter, great. Otherwise, since you didn't max it out by going to the third and loudest set, it "should" be okay and definitely much better than before.


This is most likely due to room gain. Are they in a corner/up against a wall? I wouldn't worry about it too much, but definitely agree on setting them up to 80hz or so. If they're rated for 100hz then I suppose you could do that too, but then the frequencies between 80hz and 100hz are (most say, however, Jeff [Pepar] has crossovers of 100hz also and reports this works best for him, his room, his setup, and I know he knows what he's doing! YMMV) technically more localizable and you don't want to be able to "localize" your subwoofer, especially for height channel info. I really don't think this is an issue and I think you made a good choice going in the middle to 90hz.

Remember, you can always manually RAISE the crossover Audyssey recommends but never LOWER it as Audyssey measures the -3db point of your speakers, sets the crossovers to the next nearest bump from that, and does NOT correct below that, so it can utilize the resolution of the filter for that speaker in more appropriate areas where it matters and can do you the most good.

The most important question is, now that you've run the setup twice, with as little noise as possible, read the setup guide, did all 8 points, etc, etc, how does it "Sound?"

EDIT: Anyway, Jeff beat me to it, answered your question, and in a much simpler way. I tend to get carried away and talk too much, lol. I am curious as to how it sounds now though. Are you happy with the results?

--J

Doug or anyone else,

Thanks for the notes on 2.5 as since this is the version which added support for the Denon 5805CI I must at least get it. However, do you have a similar document IE: Release notes for 3.0 or whatever the newest version is which would outline the differences so I could see if it is worth paying the extra to upgrade??

Or is that what you don't have? I get confused sometimes.

Maybe the manual of the newest version has this info contained in it??

Thanks so much,

--J

PS I've read a lot on this thread about measurements taken with REW, XTZ, and other software, and my number one priority is actually to get a good "before" shot of my room so I can see exactly how bad it is, where my major modes are, and what it is exactly that Audyssey has to work with. Can anyone recommend the "cheapest" (and kinda easy for a relative newbie like me) way I might be able to get this accomplished? I kind of want to "see" what it is I'm working with before investing in a license for my 5805CI because I'm hoping I'll have a new Pre-Pro w/ XT32 really soon. Either way, I want to get a better picture of exactly what all Audyssey is in for and so I can maybe learn how to better position my speakers/subs, add absorption/diffusion materials, etc.

I'll take a second stab at this...
Do you want to adjust bass and treble on top of audyssey for music sources and disable those bass and treble adjustments for movie sources (inputs)?
Well, then you can do it with selecting "Stereo" or "DPLIIx Music" etc for your music sources in the listening mode presets and setup "THX Cinema" or "PLIIx Movie THX Cinema" etc for your movie sources in the listening mode presets.
Then the bass/treble adjustments will be enabled for music and disabled for movies.
I double checked that it works even if "Preserve THX Settings" is set to No.

It's customary to quote back the words of the person you are intending to communicate with, not someone else.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Don't mind Roko, guys. It's just his way of doing things...

Hahaha. I do have some side tables I'm a coffee geek too - roast my own beans and all that. But that's another forum...

Kind Regards,

Keith

I suspect, in this case, it's not only easier to ask Chris Kyriakakis, but it's probably also going to be more useful to ask the founder of Audyssey, who has a PhD in this subject and whose company will already have conducted numerous tests and experiments regarding furniture placement in the listening environment.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Audyssey doesn't set the crossovers. Your receiver does. Audyssey measures the actual in-room response to the -3dB point and passes its findings to the AVR which then sets the XO. Something in your room is boosting the low frequencies of your mains. It could be they are closer to a wall than when they were tested in an anechoic chamber at M&K for example. But you are correct - the general advice is to raise the XO to 80Hz or thereabouts and then to do further tweaking, if necessary, after listening to how the system sounds to you.


You don't seem to have done anything wrong. This happens all the time because the manufacturer of the speakers sets the spec from their own tests, often in anechoic chambers. Audyssey is looking at the real-life response in your actual room and taking into account what the room is doing to the response. For example, my own speakers, according to the manufacturer go down to 60Hz at -3B but after running Audyssey my AVR *always* reports them as 40Hz. I just raise the XO to, in my case, 70Hz.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Of course you can ask him - and rely on what he says. That's quite easy.

I still mean that nothing can be better than conducting your own tests - in your own room - in order to experience what really happens in your own environment.

Theory is very often just... theory...

V3 had three major changes plus it is now required for all Denon products.

1) Target Curve Editor
The new version now includes the Target Curve Designer, an easy tool
used to edit target sound curves. Custom curves can be saved and
applied to individual channels. This gives installers a higher degree of
precision and control when calibrating a room

2) Save/Load Measurements
One of the most requested features of MultEQ Pro has been the ability
to save and reload measurements. MutEQ 3.0 enables this capability,
making it easy to perform comparisons and backups

3) Dynamic Volume Control
Products shipping with Dynamic Volume come with presets that
provide three levels of dynamic range control. Using MultEQ Pro 3.0,
on select models, an installer can customize these settings to each
customer's preferences.

Statement about Denon (11/2008)

Denon receivers using the new firmware upgrade requires the latest version of MultEQ 3.0 for calibration. Further, any new Denon receiver shipping with the new firmware can only be calibrated with MultEQ Pro 3.0. You will NOT be able to calibrate a firmware-upgraded receiver or any future Denon models using previous versions of MultEQ Pro software

Right. So you're saying that you will know better than Chris Kyriakakis, the founder of Audyssey, who has a PhD in his subject and who has the experience of hundreds of professional installers behind him and whose company has conducted hundreds, maybe thousands of tests using Audyssey in all its different forms?

You're saying that asking him whether it is best to remove furniture from the room before measuring and then putting it back in the room for listening is not a good idea?

And you're saying that if Audyssey categorically state that you should measure the room in the same state as you will listen after measurement, that this would be *wrong*?

And you're saying that going against the advice of Audyssey and collective experience of all of the dozens of people in this thread, many of whom have been using Audyssey since its introduction, is likely to be *right*?

And, incidentally, in your first post in this thread you mentioned that after running Audyssey your way, you have to increase the sub trim by as much as *10 dB* and still you think you are doing it right?

Fair enough. It's your system and your room. But why are you here if the answer to all your problems is to conduct your own tests in your own room? Whatever you ask here and whatever anyone here tells you, they won’t be your tests in your room will they?

Good luck in setting up your equipment.

Kind Regards,

Keith