AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1311

post #39301 of 62275
4/20/11 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by counsil View Post

Make sense?

I believe I understand what you're saying. I've yet to come across a statement about sensitivity matching in the Pro Kit mics (as opposed to the "consumer" mics) but my test tones don't match. They're quite close to 75dB and fairly consistent but not always within 1dB.

This doesn't surprise me.
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #39302 of 62275
4/20/11 at 9:21am
As some of you may know I just got done with a huge overhaul of my 5.1 HT setup (new Paradigm Monitor 9's, Paradigm Monitor CC-390, Paradigm DSP-3100, and Integra DTR-40.2) but the one thing I didn't change was my Surround speakers.
My Surrounds are Paradigm Monitor Atom bookshelves (single 5.5" woofer and single 1" tweeter per speaker, v5's whereas my new speakers are all v6's).

What is everyone's experience/opinion with Dipole Surround Speakers and how does Audyssey treat them when calibrating?
Do they really add a more enveloping feel to movies and games, or does a smaller room size like mine (1400 cubic feet) negate any advantages?


These are my current Surround Speakers Paradigm Atom Monitor (v.5's)
These are the Dipole Surrounds I am looking at Paradigm ADP-390
Reply
Reply
post #39303 of 62275
4/20/11 at 9:49am
I'm not a big fan of dipole speakers unless U have an odd shaped room ,L shape rooms ,large openings everywhere as my understanding of dipole is they depend on reflected sound instead of a directional sound . In smaller squarish style rooms direct radiation of sound is best as you can aim them where you want the best sound to end up at I M H O
i myself don't use diploes & it's best to understand how they work to understand how best they will work for you .. as they are expensive compared to a direct radiating speaker , & must be placed correctly to work the best
Reply
Reply
post #39304 of 62275
4/20/11 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastslappy View Post

I'm not a big fan of dipole speakers unless U have an odd shaped room ,L shape rooms ,large openings everywhere as my understanding of dipole is they depend on reflected sound instead of a directional sound . In smaller squarish style rooms direct radiation of sound is best as you can can aim them where you want the best sound I M H O
i myself don't use diploes & it's best to understand how they work to understand how best they will work for you .. as they are expensive compared to a direct radiating speaker , must be placed correctly to work the best

You might have just answered my question then, as my room is almost a perfect square (12'x11'). Right now my Atom Surrounds are in the rear corners of my room pointed directly towards the center of the couch (the couch is 2' off the back wall and the surround speakers create a 120 degree angle in relation to the couch and center speaker).

So you'd suggest sticking with the Atoms with said information of my room layout?
Reply
Reply
post #39305 of 62275
4/20/11 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

As some of you may know I just got done with a huge overhaul of my 5.1 HT setup (new Paradigm Monitor 9's, Paradigm Monitor CC-390, Paradigm DSP-3100, and Integra DTR-40.2) but the one thing I didn't change was my Surround speakers.
My Surrounds are Paradigm Monitor Atom bookshelves (single 5.5" woofer and single 1" tweeter per speaker, v5's whereas my new speakers are all v6's).

What is everyone's experience/opinion with Dipole Surround Speakers and how does Audyssey treat them when calibrating?
Do they really add a more enveloping feel to movies and games, or does a smaller room size like mine (1400 cubic feet) negate any advantages?


These are my current Surround Speakers Paradigm Atom Monitor (v.5's)
These are the Dipole Surrounds I am looking at Paradigm ADP-390

I have these speakers and although strictly speaking they are not dipoles, they sound great and Audyssey had no problem calibrating them.

I have used directly radiators for many years, I would have to say that the difference with these although noticeable, was subtle. FWIW my room is rectangular as well but larger at 16x22.
LL
Reply
Reply
post #39306 of 62275
4/20/11 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

You might have just answered my question then, as my room is almost a perfect square (12'x11'). Right now my Atom Surrounds are in the rear corners of my room pointed directly towards the center of the couch (the couch is 2' off the back wall and the surround speakers create a 120 degree angle in relation to the couch and center speaker).

So you'd suggest sticking with the Atoms with said information of my room layout?

yes the direct radiator , as with any additions do them slowly in steps so one can get used to a sound & be able to tell changes . anyway have fun with all this
Reply
Reply
post #39307 of 62275
4/20/11 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

What is everyone's experience/opinion with Dipole Surround Speakers and how does Audyssey treat them when calibrating?

There are some exceptions but Audyssey doesn't much care about speaker types.

Quote:


These are the Dipole Surrounds I am looking at Paradigm ADP-390

Those aren't quite dipoles. They're dipole/bipole/direct hybrids.
Reply
Reply
post #39308 of 62275
4/20/11 at 10:40am
I love this thread.....so helpful with everything!

Thanks for all the quick replies everyone. I am going to stick with my current Surround speakers (direct radiating Monitor Atoms) as they have sounded phenomenal so far, so why fix something that isn't broken? lol
Reply
Reply
post #39309 of 62275
4/20/11 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I used to use a tripod but then I got a mic stand and the difference is fantastic. So much easier and quicker to do the calibration. I bought this:

http://www.amazon.com/Stage-Stands-7...3308125&sr=1-1


.. and this for mounting the Audyssey mic...

http://www.amazon.com/CM01-Camera-Di...3308163&sr=1-1

Kind Regards,

Keith

Just placed my order. When calibrating with a boom mic stand I just need to make sure to not put the stand in the middle of my front speakers, right? Place the stand off to one of the sides.
Reply
Reply
post #39310 of 62275
4/20/11 at 2:45pm
Silly question:

How long is the wire that comes with the Audyssey mic?
Reply
Reply
post #39311 of 62275
4/20/11 at 2:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post

Just placed my order. When calibrating with a boom mic stand I just need to make sure to not put the stand in the middle of my front speakers, right? Place the stand off to one of the sides.

Yes ! that's the why of the boom part of the mic stand
Reply
Reply
post #39312 of 62275
4/20/11 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Silly question:

How long is the wire that comes with the Audyssey mic?

Just had to look up my Manual for the DENON AVR-2310 at it says: approx. 25 ft/ 7.6 meters.

Hope this could help!
Reply
Reply
post #39313 of 62275
4/20/11 at 3:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Just had to look up my Manual for the DENON AVR-2310 at it says: approx. 25 ft/ 7.6 meters.

Hope this could help!

Yep, real long, because I have tripped over a number of times!
Reply
Reply
post #39314 of 62275
4/20/11 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post

Just placed my order. When calibrating with a boom mic stand I just need to make sure to not put the stand in the middle of my front speakers, right? Place the stand off to one of the sides.

Yep.

Also, keep one thing in mind for those of you using boom mic stands or tripods for calibration. Depending on your room's floor construction, if you don't isolate the stand from the floor, you can cause aberrations in Audyssey's correction, specifically in the lower frequencies.

If your subwoofer measurement shows up as shorter than the physical distance, this usually indicates that you need to isolate the stand better.

The lower frequencies travel very easily through some types of flooring and all the way up the stand/tripod.

Just as an anecdotal example, I performed my first XT32 calibrations with the Onkyo 5008 taking only the first 3 measurments placing a tripod on the couch. The couch did a decent job of insulating the tripod from the floor and the subwoofer distance was (as in many cases) about double the physical distance.

I then tried using all 8 positions which necessitated placing the tripod on the floor for the other 5 positions. This produced the first of the anomalous sub measurements (1 subwoofer showed up as 1 foot while the other still showed up as 22.5 feet). I later bought the same boom stand as many here have been using and yes, it made taking measurements much faster, but now, BOTH subs showed up as 1 foot and the bass in the system post-calibration was seriously lacking. The bass (from 2 Bag End Infrasubs) was travelling through the floor and right up the boom stand to the mic.

This produced the anomalous sub distances, and (I believe) also led the measurements to believe that the volume for the lower frequencies was much greater than it actually was and thus, Audyssey's correction for the anomalous measurements produced attenuated bass.

I 'm back to calibrating using tripods but now I pad the feet of the tripod to reduce transmission of vibrations through the floor. Bass response is back to where it should be and I get a nice rumbling through the floor when LFE is abundant.

I thought about isolating the boom stand's base from the floor but it isn't as easily done as the stand I have, at full extension, is a little unbalanced as it is. Perhaps I'll try with a different boom stand than the one off Amazon.


Max
Reply
Reply
post #39315 of 62275
4/20/11 at 3:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Yep, real long, because I have tripped over a number of times!

Yep. Me, too. That is why I love the fluorescent orange mic cables on the pro kit. Even I can see them, in most cases.
Reply
Reply
post #39316 of 62275
4/20/11 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Just had to look up my Manual for the DENON AVR-2310 at it says: approx. 25 ft/ 7.6 meters.

Hope this could help!

Holy @$!% that long? So pretty much there won't be any tugging and pulling no matter how big the room. SWEET!!!

Is the wire length the same with all receivers or it varies?

And thanks you pulled out your manual to answer my question. I really appreciate it.
Reply
Reply
post #39317 of 62275
4/20/11 at 4:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post

Yep, real long, because I have tripped over a number of times!

my dogs have pulled it out mid-cal many times ! They now stay in the kitchen when I re-cal . L O L ..
Reply
Reply
post #39318 of 62275
4/20/11 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by amarshonarbangla View Post

Holy @$!% that long? So pretty much there won't be any tugging and pulling no matter how big the room. SWEET!!!

Is the wire length the same with all receivers or it varies?

Since the mic is provided by Audyssey to each of the licensees, I suspect it is the same.
Reply
Reply
post #39319 of 62275
4/20/11 at 6:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I got lazy and did not remove the screen, but I would have if I thought it necessary to the comparison.

I first put on the Blu-ray of Dave Matthews and Tim Reynolds at Radio City and went to "Betrayal" the gee-tar solo song of Tim and his amazing collection of effects. Well, holy crap, it sounded like there was no screen in front of the speakers. It sounded amazing! I listened to another song or two and moved on to Chris Botti and a song with Jill Scott on vocals. I thought the vocal sounded a bit gauzy, but everything else sounded good. I listened closer and now, with a full band, i.e. instruments from bass guitar to piano to a small orchestra, I could hear the deficiencies from no room correction. They were noticeable from maybe 2k on down.

My 885-based system had the Audyssey Reference Curve, and even though I had tweaked it and raised the top a few dB, it still rolled off. The uncorrected system did not roll off, and that is why the Matthews/Reynolds guitars sounded so clear and clean. And that correction had compensated for the screen; absent Audyssey, the vocals sounded gauzy. Paula Cole's numbers had the same gauziness.

Back to the correction-related differences ... it really stood out at the low end. The bass guitar was mush. There are a few places where he does a slide and a few quick grace notes, and all of that fancy fingering just got lost.

Next was my go-to scene from Iron Man, the cave escape sequence. I use this one scene as a test of my system's low end as well as surround/front integration and main/sub integration. The un-corrected system fell apart on all of that. The bass was now all one note .. it happens that my room has a big peak around 25Hz and my riser has a fortuitous resonance ... also at 25Hz. But when most bottom end is indistinct, but anything near 25Hz is HUGE, that is not good. The sequence where Stark's assistant buys him time by running out of the room with the automatic weapon was big and thumpy, but oh so sloppy with that one-note-ness. And the weapon fire that had panned so smoothly .. and completely "as a whole" from right surround to front as he enters the scene from the right now has the percussive attack of the gun panning, but the big, fat resonance bottom end is localizable to the subs. The effect was broken as the single sound of the machine gun was "torn apart" at the crossover.

Next was the meat processing scene from Sherlock Holmes where Lord Blackwood's voice is disembodied and comes from various directions around the room. It had always been smooth and the exact same sound regardless of which speaker or speakers it had come from, where now it was, well .. lumpy. The timbre-match was all off, and now I noticed that it was louder from the rear surrounds than from the surrounds.

That was the end of my comparison. I am headed now to deliver my 885 to the buyer .. an AVS member who happens to live only about 60 miles away. Tonight will be setting up MultEQ XT 32 with the consumer mic and .. lots ... of ... listening.

I will say that "through" the deficiencies of leaving the screen in place and having no Audyssey correction, I can still hear that the 5508 sounds much better than the 885. It seems more dynamic and does not get congested at higher SPLs; it *still* sounds cleaner and clearer. All of that will be put to the test tonight!

Jeff

Jeff,

Have you used measuring equipment such as RTA to optimize your crossovers, subs, and satellite positions for the "uncorrected" portion of the test?

Mark
Reply
Reply
post #39320 of 62275
4/21/11 at 1:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Yes, experimentation is the key if you can move the speakers around. The location of the speakers is one of the most significant factors in the resulting quality of sound.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Thanks again Keith.

I had a play around last night, but couldn't get the fronts any lower than 120hz after calibration. Oh well...

Just one other question I have an Onkyo 608, which sadly only comes with Audyssey's 2EQ. As I can only take 3 measurements, what would be the ideal place for measurements 2 and 3? I'm only looking to calibrate for one single listening area, which is a recliner chair right in the middle.

Thanks
Reply
Reply
post #39321 of 62275
4/21/11 at 4:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadus View Post

Thanks again Keith.

I had a play around last night, but couldn't get the fronts any lower than 120hz after calibration. Oh well...

Just one other question I have an Onkyo 608, which sadly only comes with Audyssey's 2EQ. As I can only take 3 measurements, what would be the ideal place for measurements 2 and 3? I'm only looking to calibrate for one single listening area, which is a recliner chair right in the middle.

Thanks

Take 1 right in the middle. 2 and 3 can be taken just in front or right and left.
Reply
Reply
post #39322 of 62275
4/21/11 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Take 1 right in the middle. 2 and 3 can be taken just in front or right and left.

OK, thanks.
Reply
Reply
post #39323 of 62275
4/21/11 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrisoner View Post

Just placed my order. When calibrating with a boom mic stand I just need to make sure to not put the stand in the middle of my front speakers, right? Place the stand off to one of the sides.

I doubt if the thin mic stand will have a great deal of impact on the calibration - but yes, if you can keep it out of the way, why not?

Kind Regards,

Keith
Reply
Reply
post #39324 of 62275
4/21/11 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCoolJesus View Post

What is everyone's experience/opinion with Dipole Surround Speakers and how does Audyssey treat them when calibrating?
Do they really add a more enveloping feel to movies and games, or does a smaller room size like mine (1400 cubic feet) negate any advantages?



I used direct radiators for my surrounds for years and only recently changed to dipoles. Dolby, THX and DTS all recommend dipoles for the surround channels and I decided to try them. I prefer them. They give a more diffuse, ambient sound with movies that I like. The sound seems to be more "all around me" but when there is a stongly localised sound it can still be located in its rightful place in the soundstage. I can switch my dipoles to bipole mode if I wish, which would give a result somewhere between direct radiators and diploes I guess, but I haven't felt the need. I don't think I would go back to direct radiators again.

Re Audyssey - it doesn't care much about the type of speakers you use and it calibrates the dipoles just fine.

Kind Regards,

Keith
Reply
Reply
post #39325 of 62275
4/21/11 at 8:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Since the mic is provided by Audyssey to each of the licensees, I suspect it is the same.

Has anyone extended the cable in some fashion? Despite being fairly long, the standard cable only just reaches far enough for me because my gear is all in a separate closet off the main room and the cable has to follow a tortuous route to get into the room. (I leave the mic fully installed -- not connected obviously -- to faciliate future calibration runs). I could really use some form of extender cable but have no idea what I would use.

Kind Regards,

Keith
Reply
Reply
post #39326 of 62275
4/21/11 at 8:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadus View Post

Thanks again Keith.

I had a play around last night, but couldn't get the fronts any lower than 120hz after calibration. Oh well...

Does it sound good, to your ears?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toadus View Post

Just one other question I have an Onkyo 608, which sadly only comes with Audyssey's 2EQ. As I can only take 3 measurements, what would be the ideal place for measurements 2 and 3? I'm only looking to calibrate for one single listening area, which is a recliner chair right in the middle.

Thanks

I'd follow Audyssey's guidelines I think - one in the centre and one two feet either side.

Kind Regards,

Keith
Reply
Reply
post #39327 of 62275
4/21/11 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Has anyone extended the cable in some fashion? Despite being fairly long, the standard cable only just reaches far enough for me because my gear is all in a separate closet off the main room and the cable has to follow a tortuous route to get into the room. (I leave the mic fully installed -- not connected obviously -- to faciliate future calibration runs). I could really use some form of extender cable but have no idea what I would use.

Kind Regards,

Keith

I remember some posts from Chris about this. There was something about extending it too far and having the electrical characteristics of the wire affect the mic's response.

Jeff
Reply
Reply
post #39328 of 62275
4/21/11 at 8:53am
^IIRC the advice from Chris was that a 25' extension could be added to the 25' cord without detriment, but as one goes longer than that, signal loss becomes more and more significant. Mono connectors are fine, stereo will work. You can pick one up from RatShack or Monoprice. Being compulsive, I'd get the shortest length that works.
Reply
Reply
post #39329 of 62275
4/21/11 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I remember some posts from Chris about this. There was something about extending it too far and having the electrical characteristics of the wire affect the mic's response.

Jeff

Ah, right - thanks Jeff. I will "Ask Audyssey" later. I do wish Chris still posted here.

How's the 5508 doing?

Kind Regards,

Keith
Reply
Reply
post #39330 of 62275
4/21/11 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^IIRC the advice from Chris was that a 25' extension could be added to the 25' cord without detriment, but as one goes longer than that, signal loss becomes more and more significant. Mono connectors are fine, stereo will work. You can pick one up from RatShack or Monoprice. Being compulsive, I'd get the shortest length that works.

Thanks SOM. 3 metres (10 feet) would do for me. I am just about OK with the standard cable but it's a tight stretch and one day I know I am just going to trip over the cable and do some damage to the mic or whatever. I'll check out a mono cable.

Kind Regards,

Keith
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1)