"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1314

Agreed. I've always used dipoles for surround and back speakers, as I've always had a fairly small room. I would say that it has been the lesser of two evils though. Direct fire have always been far too obvious and dipoles have always been slightly lacking - until purchasing the 3008 and using Dynamic EQ. I used to increase the volume of the dipoles to give a bit more presence, but with the 3008 I didn't need to.

Small room + Dipoles + Dynamic EQ = me happy

I must have missed this.
Chris isn't listening or posting here anymore?

Mike

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post20163385

He bowed out a month or so ago saying his company was working on a lot of new products and he didn't have time to follow the thread. He reminded everyone that he was still on facebook and ask audyssey. Re the latter, I posted some questions and got timely answers, but my last query went un-answered. Luke continues to be very responsive to tech support questions.

Chris is very much missed here. It is extremely rare for a representative of a company that high on the ladder to participate in a forum thread, but we got very ... spoiled by his participation and now it is like cold turkey without him.

Jeff

Yes, bummer.
He would even email you articles on the science.

Mike

Where your sub's level control sits is essentially irrelevant as long as the receiver can calibrate it, and is meaningless to you and me unless we know how the gain stages of the sub are desiogned, whether the potentiometer is linear or logarithmik, the variability of the potentiometers used, and how much time the manufacturer puts into QC on the relatively unimportant step of putting the knob on exaclty the same on every sub.

The reason the receiver asks you to adjust the sub to 75 dB is to avoid situations where, after calibration, the sub is either too loud or too quiet because the receiver trims ran out of room to correct. If you set the sub higher at tha point, the receiver will turn it down more in the calibration process. If you want the sub hotter, turn it up using the receiver trims after calibration.

Read the Audyssey setup guide linked in Pepar's signature on his many helful posts and eslewhere. Tons of practical information.

I just got an AS-EQ1 from a trusted member here (It's up to him if he wishes to identify himself) and I have no doubt it's in perfect working order, but I'm having an issue.

Thank goodness for this thread.

I hooked it up last night and immediately got a hum through my subs (2 Epik Empire's) so I tried turning it off (when I did there was a loud thump that came through my left sub) and unplugging it, then plugging it in to a different outlet than my subs are plugged into. That didn't solve the problem.

Then I tried adding a 3-prong (ground) adapter to 2-prong (I think it's called a cheater plug?? Is this what people are talking about when they mention cheater plugs??) adapter for each sub so neither sub would be grounded, since the AS-EQ1 power supply isn't grounded, and that didn't make a difference either.

I couldn't figure out how to get rid of the hum and it measured about 50db on my Rat Shack digital SPL Meter from my MLP. It is annoying and on quiet passages in music/movies would be able to be heard, but on "most" content I probably wouldn't be able to hear it (Subs are equidistant to MLP and are 13.5' from MLP) so I decided to just move forward and work on this problem later.

I then plugged the USB cable it came with into my HTPC (It just barely reaches, but I didn't have to use an extender) and the hum suddenly got louder...MUCH louder. Unlistenable.

After downloading and launching the version 3.2 software and going past checking "no" for Auto EQ Assist (I have a Denon 5805CI w/ Audyssey MultEQ XT) I got to the level match screen and when I got there the loud hum stopped and it went back to the original 50db hum. I set my levels to 75db but never actually did any real measuring because the hum is driving me crazy.

When I exited the program the very loud hum came back again so I decided to try one last thing. I unplugged the power to my HTPC (a laptop) thinking the power supply/power cable might be causing the loud hum but this didn't affect the hum at all.

The loud hum (when the USB cable is plugged in) changes pitch when minimizing windows, scrolling, doing different things on the computer, but it is always present.

The quieter hum (when the USB cable is unplugged) never changes in loudness or pitch and is extremely annoying.

What should I try next?

Again, I am POSITIVE the AS-EQ1 is in perfect working order and it was in use until just a few days ago in the other member's system.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks everyone, and happy Easter!!

--Jason

Jason,

I'm sorry you are having a problem. I know how anxious you were to get this unit into your system. I too needed to "lift" the ground on one of my sub's to eliminate the hum, but it did in fact get rid of it. That you are experiencing the symptoms you described does sound like you have ground loop issues. The changes in hum with changes in your Windows desktop is very weird. If you are not able to get it to work, I would be willing to either pay to ship it back to me for re-testing in my system and/or refund your $$$. I have not deposited your MO yet.

I guess you could try lifting the ground on all connected components.

I am into a family thing and may not be able to respond right away/for a while.

Jeff

Hum FAQ:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=322698

If you have a cable TV box connected to the system, try disconnecting it, (both power and the CATV signal itself.)

Craig

Hi Jeff,

I know you had things to do this weekend and since I've already bugged you to death and talked your ear off, I thought I'd just post in the thread to see if anybody had any ideas.

Please don't take it personally or think I'm upset in any way! I have wanted an AS-EQ1 for a long time and don't think I'll be getting MultEQ XT32 for another year or so until there are more options in Pre-Pros to pick from so I "have" to get this to work. I know I talk/type a lot, so again, please be sure and understand that I really appreciate you selling me your AS-EQ1 and I'm sure I'll be able to figure this out with everyone's help/advice.

This hobby wouldn't be any fun at all if everything just "worked" and sounded perfect... It's a quest for perfection that can never be reached and that's what intrigue's me and keeps me going.

When you say "lift" is that the term I should be using for using the 3-prong to 2 prong adapter or cheater plug as I've heard it called?? I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

Also, for full disclosure, I don't know if this matters, but I bought a two-pack of these at Dollar Tree so they were only $.50 each! Could it be that a "better" quality one would work, or are they all the same?

And remember, the only time the extremely loud hum existed was when the USB cable was plugged in and when I was "not" using the program, but it did exist even when the power supply wasn't plugged into the laptop and it was running only on battery power.

I didn't plug a cheater plug into the AS-EQ1 because it already isn't grounded, but is there some other type of device I should try?

What would you try next? I'm willing to experiment and refuse to think that I won't be able to get this problem resolved. I just need to find the "cause" of the problem and I thought for sure since the tone of the hum changed (when the USB cable was plugged in) depending on what I did on the laptop that unplugging the power would solve that, but it didn't! So if there isn't even a power cord plugged in, how could it be a ground problem?? That's what has me confused the most right now!

Thanks buddy and enjoy your Holiday! I get to bake sugar cookies and color Easter Eggs in a bit.

--J

Thanks Craig!

I'll read this right now!

I have DirecTV and it is plugged into the same power strip my AVR is plugged into, but the laptop runs on battery and isn't plugged in at all which has me extremely confused!

I should mention that if I ever use my sound card (Trying to figure out REW) output to an input on my receiver (Denon AVR-5805CI) I get a hum there too, but it is much quieter. It too, however, changes in pitch/tone when I scroll or minimize/maximize browser windows! I just noticed this.

So, I'll go read this link and unplug the power to the DirecTV HR22 box (and if I unplug the power cord would I also need to unscrew the wires coming from the dish to the receiver? They aren't going into a surge protector or anywhere else in the system? Also, do I need to unplug the HDMI cable, or just the power cord??) and see if that makes a difference.

I'll report back once I've done this.

Thanks,

--J

You have probably thought of this already, but could you create a minimal environment for the AS-EQ1? Maybe a friends house. Just enough components to see if you can use your AS-EQ1 without any hum. If you get hum-free, then add your components back in one at a time, to find what is causing the problem. If you cannot get hum-free, then maybe your AS-EQ1 needs some attention.

iq100
the best way to delete an idea is to post one of your own.

I just unplugged the sub cables and left only the power cable, plugged into the same outlet, and there is no hum coming from inside the unit itself or from anywhere else.

I can take the AS-EQ1 to a friend's house but unfortunately, I live in a small town and haven't yet met anyone else in my area (South Central OH - zip code 45662 if anyone is near by and would be willing to lend a hand ) that has a HT.

I must stress that Jeff had this in use until just a few days ago and without problem. It was packed professionally, double-boxed, and all original packing materials were used. I'm as sure as can be that there isn't anything wrong with the device itself.

It is definitely a ground loop issue but I've already tried the AS-EQ1 plugged into the same outlet as the subs and tried the subs with cheater plugs and it didn't make a difference.

Any suggestions or ideas as to why the audio cable plugged into the AVR from my laptop's sound card (so totally unrelated to the AS-EQ1) causes the same (just not as loud) hum and change in tone/pitch when I scroll or minimize/switch windows/browsers?

I feel that must be related somehow but the question is, am I right, and what do I do about it since the laptop runs on battery power anyway??

Thanks for the suggestion and your time! I'm reading the thread Craig linked to above right now and will try unplugging everything and plugging each device in one by one in a moment.

I'll let everyone know once I've done that and the outcome.

Wish me luck!

--J

Hi J. I'm no expert on ground loops by any stretch of the imagination but I am wondering if you have tried different cables between your AVR, the EQ1 and your sub? If there is a dodgy connection in the interconnect I think this can cause a ground hum.

All I can suggest, and you have probably tried all this, is to eliminate every item from the chain, plug them back in one at a time and see if the hum comes back at a defined point. If so, there's yout problem.

For example, have you tried unplugging everything other than the EQ1/Sub? Does the hum appear still? Does it start as soon as you plug the laptop in? Are you able to try a different computer? Can you eliminate the HTPC as a source altogether and see if the EQ1 still hums as soon as you plug it in?

The fact that the EQ1 didn't him in Jeff's setup more or less rules out a problem in the EQ1 itself, so it has to be something peculiar to your setup.

What happens if you have the system set up as normal and then you plug the AVR sub output into the back of the EQ1 and the EQI sub output into the sub itself, with no laptop connected? Does it still hum?

The fact that the hum changes when you open windows on the laptop is weird but also suggests that the problem lies in the laptop itself, hence my suggesting you set up without any computer in the system, or trying a different laptop if you can.

I'm sure if we work through all the options logically, between the knowledgable guys on here and yourself, you can solve this issue. I sure hope so because, like you, I don't have XT32 nd the EQ1 was one of the finest additions to date to my system.

Like I say, I am far from expert in this area, so I apologise if you have already tried all these suggestions or indeed if they are on the wrong track - but I have often solved system problems in the past by stripping the system down to basics and then adding back components one at a time.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Hi Jason, I think the best is to follow what Craig has suggested. I had a similar hum issue when I first connected my laptop to the AVR. Soon it turned out that the ground loop was built-up between the mains ground and the incoming cable TV coax ground. Actually they are not on the same potential, thus the inevitable ground loop resulting in audible hum has occured. Solution is to galvanicaly connect these two grounds.

In my case the problem was solved by inserting the plug that came with my Belkin surge protector plug extention. http://www.belkin.com/uk/IWCatProduc...duct_Id=135041

Running the CaTV coax plug through the Belkin solved the grounding problem, i.e. hum was there no more!!!

Cross my fingers for Ya!

After receiving these from Amazon on Friday I re-calibrated my Audyssey on my Denon 3808CI. Well, I'm convinced that using the boom mic stand gave me better results than my tripod. The boom mic stand let me take some better mic positions than the tripod. Overall calibration was also faster, way easier than moving my tripod around, especially from on the couch to the floor. I've been listening to music using the reference curve. I'm going to listen some more using Flat and see how that sounds.

Thanks for those suggestions!

I agree - much easier and quicker to run the calibration, better flexibility for mic positioning and less risk of extraneous noise/vibration being transferred through the body of the mic stand to the mic itself. Glad this worked out for you.

Kind Regards,

Keith

Hi. I have seen some excellent posts on diagnosing and eliminating ground loops on the Oppo 95 thread by Bob P., an expert. You can use "search this thread-advanced" to find more posts on that issue by him on that thread, if need be.

^ Jason, before you try anything difficult, I recommend trying a different laptop. I had a laptop that introduced a low-level hum whenever I used it for system calibrations and measurements (Audyssey, REW, etc.). Swapping out the laptop eliminated the problem.

Just something you might try if a friend has a laptop....

Ground could have come lose in transit. Changing cable is a good idea. Using xlr is available would be good too.

well that's your opinion & I have mine .that's your room & you have what you have. In my experience direct radiators fill a room nicely when set-up as per the Audyseey diagram . As my room's walls are not a reflecting source as do to how the room is , Then Dipole & Bipoles just don't add to a sound that is good to my ears . My speakers are quite large (the whole set ) I was happy with the surround effects of my speaker set-up before I got XT32 & now with I'm even happier with it .
Agin this is all I M H O & how my room & other rooms I have been in have reacted to radiators & then how the Diploes,Bipoles had reacted to these same rooms.

Does anyone have any comments/comparisons on going from MultEQ XT and a Sub EQ1 to the standard XT32? I am thinking of downsizing my current setup and won't go the Pro at least for a while. I have been using all of the Sub's measurement locations (although my listening area is smaller) so this is the one area of concern.

That is something I and some friends are evaluating now. Give us until mid next week to listen and organize our thoughts and post.

Jeff

Excellent. Thanks and I'm looking forward to your impressions!

Yes, like I said, it's mainly a matter of preference.

Yes, I used direct radiators for years. They were always fine for surround speakers.

Yes, that is what I was saying. When you have walls to give reflections, ie smaller rooms with enclosed boundaries, dipoles work really well. You were saying that dipoles worked best in large rooms with open areas etc. I suggested that it was the other way around - direct radiators work better in large rooms with no reflective walls etc. You're agreeing with me


Kind Regards,

Keith

Try an isolation transformer in the signal path, they're inexpensive and if it works you know what the problem is. Of course the correct solution is to find and fix the underlying prolem.

You're getting digital noise leaking onto the output of the sound card. It's not that uncommon with LCD panels. An external sound card should clean that up.

I am fortunate enough to be one of those friends.

I am very interested to hear Jeff's system with his new pre/pro. I am most interested in the potential benefit of a Pro calibration over top of XT32. I believe the plan is to have us listen to the base XT32 result, then run a Pro calibration and re-listen to the same content to evaluate the benefits of a Pro calibration. Jeff, how many measurement positions do you intend to take? Also, I know you've moved your seating since I was last there. Although I've heard your system many times over the last few years, how much different is it now with the new seating positions/listening distances? How much listening time will you allow to let us acclimate to the new seating before you run the Pro cal?

For myself, I am currently so pleased with my results in my system with just the base XT32, (and then my measurements and tweaks on top of that), that I can't imagine how a Pro calibration will improve things. Still, if it makes Jeff's system sound better, I would be open to trying it in my system. If such respected posters as counsil and gamelover360, (as well as Jeff obviously), feel it is a significantly beneficial improvement, I will keep my options open.

Craig

I have settled on thirteen positions that I used for the AS-EQ1 and Pro, and I will use them as well for Pro with the 5508.


Ahhh, well it's a bit different ... more direct and less ambient. It's difficult to say much beyond that. I think you will easily sort out what you hear and be able to assign it to seating, Audyssey and/or the 5508.
To save time I will have already done the Pro calibration and saved the files so that I only need to load the filters overwriting the consumer calibration when you guys are here.
By the end of the evening I'm sure that we will all agree that there is or isn't a difference.

Jeff

Like most people here, I know of ground loops but have no idea how to correctly fix the problem.

However I once had a ground loop hum in my HT system. It was when I introduced a new sub amp. I got rid of the hum by connecting a wire to the new amp's metal case (i.e. it's earth) and systematically touched the wire to other equipment's metal cases until I touched my parametric equalizer and suddenly there was no hum. I permanently hooked the earthing wire between the two pieces of quipment and all was fine.

Eventually I took the EQer out of the system and didn't need the wire any more. The new sub amp was fine with the rest of my equipment.

In Australia all electrical equipment was always connected to electricity with the normal two pins and a third earth pin. All earth sockets on all wall outlets were connected to a common copper earth stake driven into the ground. I don't believe we ever had earth loop hums back then. However in recent years, due to double insulation, etc, most equipment only has the two pins to plug into the wall.

Is there anything wrong with using audyssey flat curve?

I prefer it for sure with music and xbox, i found the regular audyssey curve was crushing some sounds, for movies they both sound the same, i just kept it on flat.

Is it possible it works better in my configuration?