"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1509

I think that anything read from that page is for manual speaker setup and level matching. It's been a while since I've done that, and I have never manually setup two sub channels, but I'd bet that the level signal is sent to one channel at a time.

Agreed.

Sanjay,

Thanks. I understand the point you made about the futility or even error of EQ corrections at the higher frequencies. However, this is not really my point.

Audyssey is stating that the filter resolution of the satellite speakers of MultEQ XT is 16x while that of XT 32 is 512x. That's a factor of 32, which I also understand to be the reason why XT 32 is called such. This is a huge difference and I suppose it should be readily apparent in charts. On the other hand, you are saying that XT 32 is not correcting (or not doing much) at the higher frequencies. Does your statement contradict the Audyssey claim of 32x more filters for the satellites (including, obviously, the highest frequencies)?

Mark

Thanks, Mike, but that's like cheating during an exam. That should be the last resort.

Mark

not at all, his assertion is that they are being disproportionately redistributed to the lower freq's.

just because they increase the filter resolution doesn't mean the "taps" have to be distributed the same way.

Yeah,kind of.

Room correction technology like MultEQ have their origins going back to communication,SONAR,RADAR and other systems were complex time and frequency correction are needed,long before it was used for RC applications.

Here is a quote from an older October 1992 Stereophile article"As We See It
I Have Heard the Future...(DSP Room Acoustics Correction)" that mentions a little about it:

Digital processing to correct for room coloration is based on principles that already are widely used in military signal-analysis computers to cancel spurious echoes in radars and undersea sonar-mapping systems. (Many of the technical papers in this field, at least those that are not classified secret, have been published in the Journal of Underwater Acoustics.) Practical DSP correction for room acoustics may turn out to be yet another beneficial consumer spinoff from our military tax dollars, along with personal computers and Teflon frying pans.

I believe I read somewhere,that of one of persons who helped work on Audyssey, has a back ground in SONAR DSP.

Yes, that sounds right, and may I note that you must be referring to the lower frequencies of the satellites.

Mark

of course, each speaker has its own filter. Anything happening in the subwoofer channel filter is irrelevant to his point.

My statement would have contradicted Audyssey IF I had said that XT32 can't do more in the higher frequencies rather than saying that it doesn't do more. Lack of capability vs deliberate decision.

If you want to see the strength of a professional weight-lifter, then observe his work-out routine at the gym. Watching him pick up a coffee mug at home won't demonstrate his muscular superiority compared to a non-athelete.

Likewise, if you want to see the higher resolution of XT32, you have to look where Audyssey is flexing that capability (below Schröder). Continuing to look for it in the higher frequencies isn't useful, because Audyssey has chosen not to use it there. Why keep looking in the wrong place?

I use stacked Sunfire subs with a powered woofer on one side and an identically-sized passive radiator on the other, straddling the corner at 45 degrees. I have noticeably more extension with the passive radiator on one side than when it's flipped 180 degrees to the other. In both orientations, each woofer/radiator is grazing the adjacent wall at 45 degrees. Of course the "good" side is the one with the controls facing into the corner so they are hard to access. Makes no sense to me, since bass is supposedly omnidirectional, but the added extension can be heard (and felt) at the main listening position. Cabinet size is 13".

Try reorienting your sub, and if the sound suffers (or improves), assess from there.

Very clear explanation and analogy, with evidence to back it up. Thanks!

Mark

Thanks for the link Markus. Very good reading for a simple to understand primer on filters.

For anyone interested, it will help you understand how filters are constructed, the difference between things like IIR and FIR filters and what the difference in the number of taps and 'resolution' actually means with respect to the various iterations of MultEQ from 2EQ, to XT32.


Max

Just bought an onkyo tx nr709 to replace my tx sr804. Hooked it up to my def tech 5.1 setup. I had no experience with using audssey. I can honestly sy that using the mult eq with only 5 positions made such a difference in sound it's incredible. The difference is night and day.

Thanks for sharing this interesting background info Steven. Isn't this something we call evolution?

Does that mean, Audyssey should work best under water

Then I'd leave this thread now, never to return, or you will be condemned to a lifetime of endless fiddling with your setup and will never again be satisfied for a moment. (Just kidding, but it can sometimes seem that way).

Glad you like what Audyssey is doing for your system, and welcome to the Official Audyssey Thread. If you haven't done so already, I would suggest you go to Post 1 and download the Setup Guide, and study it closely and then implement its recommendations as closely as you are able. If you have any questions about the Guide or how it relates to your own setup, just ask here. I would suggest you use all of the potential mic positions your version of Audyssey allows (6 or 8 depending on version), regardless of the number of seats you have. Have a look at the Guide and come back if you need to. And congratulations on achieving a great sound first time round!

Hi Feri,


Revolution in my case!

Hugo

Hi Hugo,

Très bien.

Hi folks. I have a HSU sub (VTF series) coming. Anyone have any advice on setup with Audyssey, anything special, or just follow the steps as I usually would?

The setup guide. I've just seen recommendations from HSU, that kinda say set it up in one mode, run audyssey per the guide, then change some settings on the sub. Just wondering if anyone with an HSU has experimented with this stuff before.

Just follow the steps you usually would. BTW what are those steps you usually follow? Curious like cat!

Do you have a link to HSU recommendations?

"I would set the volume on the sub to about 9 o'clock, one port open, EQ1, Q=0.7 for the Audyssey run, and then change it to EQ2, both ports open and fine tune by ear with the Q control"

Hey folks,

I was under the Impression that audyssey recommended 80hz XO and all speakers set to small.

Howeve, it would seem that XT32 is designed not to follow that guide and is now designed to leave the XO where the AVR sets it.

Can anyone advise me if indeed I'm better leaving my XO at default or if indeed the benefits of raiing to 80hz still exist (audyssey say they don't).

I'm just confused as we've have it drummed into us all these years from audyssey that 80hz/small is the optimal setting, thx spec also suggests this, however ever now audyssey state that if your AVR sets an XO of 40hz, leave it? Why has everything we been tought / told been changed without any actual paperwork or user guides telling us that this is thr case?

Any advice sincerely appreciated.

I'm new to the audio world and just bought a set of MartinLogan MLT-2 (5.1) speakers. I'm really clueless about recievers and just want one that will pair up well with those speakers. After doing some research I've narrowed my selection to either the Denon 1612 or the 1712.

The only difference I can tell is that the 1712 has the multeq XT while the 1612 just has multeq. And of course the 1712 handles a 7.1 set and the 1612 is for a 5.1 set. Although, i probably wont be upgrading my speakers for at least 5 years.

That being said, is the "XT" really going to make that much of a difference. Should I just go with the 1612?

There are other benefits of setting a higher XO - say 80-90Hz. It allows the speakers to perform better because they don't have so much hard work to do in the very low frequency area. There are very few speakers that can deliver 30Hz, let alone 20Hz or lower, at anything like decent SPLs. By not making this big ask of the speakers, this can have a beneficial effect on the frequencies above the XO point. It also allows the amps to work better because it hands off the heavy lifting to the amps in the sub, which are purpose-designed for their task. This means the amps in the AVR (or the external amps for the mains and surrounds) are not working flat out trying to produce high SPLs at low frequencies - it takes huge amounts of power to do that.

Prior to XT32 the advice to raise the XO to 80Hz was because the filters were much finer in the lower frequency range than in the higher frequency range. With XT32 this is not the case, but the stuff I mention above still applies, regardless.

IOW, I personally would always raise a suggested 40Hz XO to 80 or 90Hz. There may well be circumstances where some people might say not to do this but there can be no doubt that removing the strain from amp and speakers can only be beneficial.

Hi ZX,

Actually 80 Hz is a frequency where our human hearing is supposed to loose it ability to determine directionality. YMMV, but not much. On a second note, Audyssey does not set a croosover, it "only" measures the -3 dB roll-off of each speaker in our system and reports it to the AVR where the AVR will set a crossover closest above the reported value as per default.

The non-directionality issue of our ears will allow us the benefit and freddom of placing our sub(s) in our room to the best place as regards bass frequency propagation (typically never coincides with satellite placement). More on the issue here .

As for the technical benefits please follow Keith (kbarnes701) with his excelent descriptions.

I have 5 identical bookshelf monitors all around (Behringer 1020p) . My new Denon 4311CI is the first AVR I've owned that 1) allows different XO for different channels and 2) has Audyssey (XT32). Heretofore I always set XO at 80Hz. The Denon sets some of my speakers to 60 Hz (C/LS/RS), and some to 80 Hz (L/R). Not sure why it did that, but it sounds fine to me so far...