"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1652

Well, you brought it up...

the difference while watching a movie with a good surround scene in something like DTS-HD is even more dramatic. there is ZERO impact to the sound while in Movie mode.

curious to see if William can take a listen to the video clip and see if this is what he is hearing too.

Whoa! I can't believe the difference in the sound when switching curves.

Let me say that I have a 5009 running the December firmware and I am not having a problem like this.

I will say though that I purchased my 5009 the end of december at which time I immediately updated the firmware before doing any calibration or set up. I have also run Audyssey a few times since then due to configuration changes I would test/make to my system.

I doubt this helps but I thought I would chime in.

I tried to listen to it on my laptop very weak and hard to give a fair comparison sorry.

Floyd, Nice 1st row response, I take it that is with Audyssey and sub only as marked. Is that blip at 80hz due to xover or?? I also see 120hz, is that your LPF setting?

Curious, do you also have:
-Sub +mains w/audyssey
-sub w/o audyssey

I re-ran my audyssey this morning, will take REW measurements tonight/early tomorrow.


Thx, it's been a while since I read the set-up guide, I've re-read it.
I did just 1st row this morning, all 4 seat positions, 4 @ ear position lying down, and 4 more about 20" fwd or so, like if the seat was fully upright and you were in that position for sports watching.

btw;
There's been some really good discussion among the regulars here past few days.

IMO, you need to summarize that into a single post as high level info and some detail for future reference, or it gest too many pages back and hard to find.

Is there a "best of discussions" post here where all these keeper discussions are bookmarked for storage/reference?

Hard to deny when the machine just bricks. They fixed mine just fine and quickly. OTOH, they have never publicly acknowledged the AudysseyPro error although they did correct it in a subsequent firmware release. BTW, they are not unique.

There's no question something is broken. The first acknowledgment you'll likely get that the problem is real is as Kal says, a fixed FW revision.

I've had an 11-channel setup with Audyssey DSX Wides + Heights for almost 2 years now. I use 11 channels for nearly all movies, except for some older films wherein the dialog bounces from left to right, which then sends some dialog to the Wides, which is totally weird. This also happens with some Pixar films, quite annoying but infrequent.

I recently sold my Wide speakers, with the intention of replacing them with in-wall speakers so I'm now left with a 9-channel setup with DSX or PLIIz Heights. Similar to a lot of other things in life, it's only when something is suddenly gone that you value and miss it so badly. I feel like Professor Higgins singing "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face".

It's very funny because when my huge Wide speakers were removed, with the lights on, the room suddenly looked bigger and with a lot more space. However, when you dim the lights and start to watch a movie, the opposite happens -- the room seems to have shrunk in size. The DSX Wides create the illusion that you are in a much larger space.


Mark

yeah, it's only worth listening to with headphones. later this evening i'll try and post a comparison while it plays a really good surround source - that video was just 5.1 cable audio from Espn so i could record how voices sound.

So Cal - there have apparently been past problems with Onkyo and Audyssey implementations?

PS - while it didn't necessarily "brick" my first 709, the fact that one of teh channels stopped outputting after it got the new firmware really makes me wonder about the stability of this version.

Mark, took a stroll thru your linked theater pix. Wow, I'm drooling over all those Focals. I had a brief listen to a Focal 7.1 system but I had no idea what they were. I just kept asking who made the speakers!

Re your theater, is your MLP in the front row or back, and how far is it from the screen?

so i decided to experiment again with DEQ since i hadn't tried it on my second onkyo 709 (that i am using in MUSIC curve) - sounds really good. none of the obtrusive bass cooking i heard on my first go-round. must have had a better measurement this time around? anyway, the center channel seems fuller and the overall mix better even at normal listening volumes.

Here you go Mike. I haven't taken a ton of measurements yet with my new 'TX-NR809. All of these were with 120Hz LPF.

Here's sub only front center seat with and without EQ. The blue trace with EQ is 200Hz x-over and the other is at 80Hz.



Here's sub and mains with EQ and 80hz x-over.



I've always had a dip at around 80hz at MLP even with my previous receiver (TX-NR708). Had good luck getting rid of it with sub distance increase but just haven't had time to fuss with it yet with the new receiver.

I just got down with calibrating my tv and the calibrator (Ray) whose also a audyssey cert installer told me that its better to have dyn eq off since its boosting the surrounds. At the same time i do like how it boosts the sub when im nota reference

I'm also getting the strange movie curve , almsot like it's out of phase?, the music curve seems much more natural.

Try using Audyssey Reference Level Offset with DEQ, setting it to 5 will lessen the effect of DEQ (which includes the bass boost), 10 even more and 15 the most.

After some testing with DVE testtones (including half R/Rs and half L/Ls) and movies in 5.1 and upmixed 2.0, I think a decrease of the surround trim levels by -1.5dB or maybe -2dB will be my choice.
I could have used Reference Level Offset (RLO) but I like the "full" effect of DEQ so I opted for the surround decrease instead.
The difference between RLO 0 and RLO 5 only seemed to be around -1dB, likewise between RLO 5 and RLO 10.
THX Loudness Plus increased the surrounds somewhere between RLO 5 and RLO 10 but is less agressive at higher volumes, at MV -25 to -35 it seemed identical to RLO 5 but at MV -40 and lower, it was boosting less than RLO 10.
Note: the DVE testtones for half L/C and half C/R also made me increase my Center and Right trim with 0.5dB each in order to produce phantom speakers between the real ones.

Hi Julian - are you using an Onkyo? Recent firmware ?

Hi Roger! MLP is in the front row, 17' from the 133" diagonal 1.78 screen. Room is 29' long. Room is too long. My next room should be much wider.

Yes, the Focal sound (especially the Utopia variety) is pretty special, from the top to bottom, but you still need good acoustic treatment, correct positioning & a good electronic EQ system. Audyssey MultEQ XT32 & Pro make a huge improvement, even with the Focal Utopia speakers.

Mark

Oleus:

are you still having the issues with the movie curve? I am gathering the bass improvement you received with DEQ was in the music curve right.

yeah, movie curve is still unusable. sounds like another poster is having the same issue now too, waiting to hear back if he is indeed using an onkyo and curious about what firmware he is on.

yes its kind of frustrating. I have had several Onkyo/Integra receivers in the last few years. Not a novice to Audessey. I have had Audessey xt and xt32 twice before and never has been an issue for me. This is the first time. I really will feel foolish if it is something I have done. Just seems timing wise a few members with Onkyo receivers have had this similar issue.

The RLO effect depends on the setting of the MV. The lower the MV, the larger the RLO effect. Truely a case of YMMV!


Do I understand that you did both? The surround trims went -1.5 and the fronts went +0.5? So the net shift "forward" is 2 dB for your listening levels?

Also, just so I understand, these offsets are what gets things nicely balanced with DEQ on, at your normal listening levels. Do you also sometimes listen at notably lower listening levels (10 dB or more), and if so, is DEQ "tracking" well wrt bass/surrounds?

Wider could be good, but it's the seating distance most on my mind. The 17' to the screen is giving you a narrow 32° viewing angle. With the L/R speakers flanking the screen, the stereo image is also narrow. I submit that were they forming a 55-60° angle (with a 45° screen), it would improve the frontal image presentation quite noticeably.

It's not easy to tell how much exactly, but from the pictures it appears that the Ls/Rs speakers are placed behind the MLP. I have found that the positioning of the surrounds in a 7.1 system has a remarkably influential effect on the sense of envelopment and front/back seamlessness. Ideally they should be either directly lateral (90°) or even a little less (80°) to best create a cohesive soundfield. (Despite Audyssey's speaker diagrams to the contrary.)

All of this is my humble armchair techno-psychoanalytic opinion (i.e., guess ) as to why you find the DSX wides so conspicuous by their absence. I suspect they are filling in for both the narrow fronts and the rearward surrounds. If you had a chance to move the MLP 5' forward, and shift the 4 surrounds, you might not feel as compelled to add wide speakers. And all the better to bask in the glory that is the Utopian Focals.

What would 5' closer make the viewing angle? I believe at more than 30° your eyes have to move too much to perceive everything on the screen.

Kind of depends on what you are looking at don't you think? In a movie things tend to be gone, changed or panned in an instant. Not so much in the real world when you are looking at your garden in the yard.

Yes, I know. I tested volymes between 0 and -50 in 5db intervals when comparing the different approaches.

I didn't touch Left but increased Center and Right with +0.5dB to get
better phantom speakers between Left/Center and Center/Right.
This tailored the sound to my hearing, I hear slightly better with my left or worse with my right, can't tell which...

So far yes, a very enveloping soundstage at the levels I usually listen to: between -25 and -40 DEQ enabled and between -40 and -65 with Dynamic Volume Light. Last evening, we watched "Unstoppable", a very loud movie with trains!, and the surrounds sounded fine around -35 and I am watching the final shootout in "True Grit" right now at -65(!!) with DVL and the surrounds seems balanced wrt the fronts.