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"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1662

post #49831 of 62234
2/1/12 at 10:35am
Markus. Knock it off.

I said you were wrong to say that music was mixed at a lower level than films.

Period. The end.

In your typical style, you cannot focus on a single point but twist the discussion around and accuse others of putting words in your mouth or not understanding.

Sometimes when there is a loud chorus of voices expressing disapproval of your behavior and conduct, you have to ask yourself if maybe they are right, and you aren't being a good citizen of AVS.

I also pointed out that most mixer listen not only on different monitors, but also at different levels in order to achieve the best "compromise" for listening at different volumes.... Which your follow ups have ignored until you talked to Mr. Katz.

I'm done and out of this thread....
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post #49832 of 62234
2/1/12 at 10:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

XT hasn't changed - it still can't EQ two subs, so why would there be a screen where one sets the levels of the two subs it can't EQ? I've had XT more recently than you, Jeff, and there is no initial screen, like there is with XT32, where you set the sub level to 75dB.

there are XT receivers (not XT32) that have a sub level match screen that comes before the main Audyssey measurements. It allows you to get your *one* sub within the ballpark of 75dB so you don't end up with a "maxed out" setting of +/-12. It's not universal to XT equipped receivers, rather just a mfgr design decision. So you may both be right.
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post #49833 of 62234
2/1/12 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Going by memory I thought that some units redirected the left main and left surround subwoofer bass to the left subwoofer, and right main and right surround to the right subwoofer (AKA stereo bass).


JPC, I think you forgot the smiley.
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post #49834 of 62234
2/1/12 at 10:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post


If you are talking channels, then .4 does not apply and .2 applies.

If you are talking content, then .1 applies only when and if you have a discrete .1 channel recorded on the mix!

If there's only one channel of content, then there's only one channel, period.
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post #49835 of 62234
2/1/12 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Going by memory I thought that some units redirected the left main and left surround subwoofer bass to the left subwoofer, and right main and right surround to the right subwoofer (AKA stereo bass).

Stereo bass? More marketing BS. The whole reason bass management works is because sub frequencies are non-directional.
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post #49836 of 62234
2/1/12 at 10:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post


I'm done and out of this thread....

Marc, please don't abandon the thread. Many of us here value your insights and contributions. By all means don't continue in this endless RLO discussion that long ago ceased to be of any value - but please tell us you will continue to contribute generally here.
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post #49837 of 62234
2/1/12 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

there are XT receivers (not XT32) that have a sub level match screen that comes before the main Audyssey measurements. It allows you to get your *one* sub within the ballpark of 75dB so you don't end up with a "maxed out" setting of +/-12. It's not universal to XT equipped receivers, rather just a mfgr design decision. So you may both be right.


Ah - thanks for the correction there - although I did think that all Onkyos would implement XT in the same way, even if other manufacturers did it slightly differently. The idea of the level setting screen is a good one of course.
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post #49838 of 62234
2/1/12 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Stereo bass? More marketing BS. The whole reason bass management works is because sub frequencies are non-directional.



Not Audyssey related, so we are getting a bit off topic again!

My sub frequencies (AKA bass frequencies) are mono below a nominal 50 hz, and stereo above 50 Hz. Sound better than the mono 80 Hz crossover to my ears.

Some movies are mixed with stereo bass (AKA specific bass content only on one channel). Bass mangaged content does not sound "the same as" acoustic mixed content.
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post #49839 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

there are XT receivers (not XT32) that have a sub level match screen that comes before the main Audyssey measurements. It allows you to get your *one* sub within the ballpark of 75dB so you don't end up with a "maxed out" setting of +/-12. It's not universal to XT equipped receivers, rather just a mfgr design decision. So you may both be right.

The TX-NR809 (I have one) has an initial Audyssey XT set-up screen which allows you to set your sub gain to read 75dB as measured by the set-up mic/AVR. The AVR sends a signal out to sub for that purpose.
I believe what the OP was proposing was when that screen was up and tone playing, with one sub turned on set it to 75dB, then turn it off and turn the other one on and set to 75dB independently of each other. They would then both be set to 75dB. Each sub is getting the same output from the AVR (either with a y splitter or via separate runs from the AVR as there are two connectors) as the 809 with XT doesn't have dual sub eq capabilities.
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post #49840 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I think there's some confusion about what we mean by 'sub level/calibration screen' then. When you run Audyssey XT, there is no screen before the measurements actually start which tells you to set the sub so that you see a reading of 75dB on the screen. In XT32, you get that screen before you start the measurements proper. First you set Sub A to 75dB, then you set Sub B to 75dB and then you start the 8 measurements in the normal way. So with XT there is no way to set a level of 75dB using the Audyssey mic.

What your buddy needs to do is what I said before (I used to do the same when I had XT and two subs): use an SPL meter to measure the loudness of Sub A and set it to 75dB, then turn off that sub, turn on the other and repeat. Once both subs are set to 75dB, both can be turned on and then XT can be run in the usual way. The subs need to be positioned so they are equidistant from the MLP because XT cannot set distances independently for two subs (as XT32 does). A Y connector from the AVR to the subs is the best way to go.

so if i have two subs, i should be setting each one to 75 instead of having both on during the 75db calibration screen and getting the level to 75?
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post #49841 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

My sub frequencies (AKA bass frequencies) are mono below a nominal 50 hz, and stereo above 50 Hz. Sound better than the mono 80 Hz crossover to my ears.

JPC, I think you might be having issues around the 80 Hz crossover point, probably a dip at the splice where the two filters (high pass and low pass) meet. Then when you move the c/o to 50 Hz the issue is gone. I learned a practical tweak here on this thread that solved my problem in my room with my speakers, and that was to change the distance setting of my sub measured by Audyssey. Its an experimental game, but worth the effort.

Quote:


Some movies are mixed with stereo bass (AKA specific bass content only on one channel). Bass mangaged content does not sound "the same as" acoustic mixed content.

Actually, no matter which channel(s) contain the bass it still remains non-directional for the human ears below 80 Hz (or so, but not much so).
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post #49842 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotto View Post

The TX-NR809 (I have one) has an initial Audyssey XT set-up screen which allows you to set your sub gain to read 75dB as measured by the set-up mic/AVR. The AVR sends a signal out to sub for that purpose.
I believe what the OP was proposing was when that screen was up and tone playing, with one sub turned on set it to 75dB, then turn it off and turn the other one on and set to 75dB independently of each other. They would then both be set to 75dB. Each sub is getting the same output from the AVR (either with a y splitter or via separate runs from the AVR as there are two connectors) as the 809 with XT doesn't have dual sub eq capabilities.

Yes that would work nicely. Onkyo must have a later version of XT than the one in my 5007. I never realised there were different versions of XT out there. Thanks for the update.
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post #49843 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

so if i have two subs, i should be setting each one to 75 instead of having both on during the 75db calibration screen and getting the level to 75?

I guess - Audyssey will take care of the overall level when it does the measurements. (The combined output from two subs at 75dB each will obviously be greater than one sub at 75dB).
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post #49844 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Actually, no matter which channel(s) contain the bass it still remains non-directional for the human ears below 80 Hz (or so, but not much so).

Even higher for some people. IIRC the 80Hz figure was the one where *nobody* could reliably locate the sub. I can't hear any directionality from my subs in my room even as high as 100Hz.
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post #49845 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Even higher for some people. IIRC the 80Hz figure was the one where *nobody* could reliably locate the sub. I can't hear any directionality from my subs in my room even as high as 100Hz.

Keith, then your ears fall into the "or so" range. See how cautious I am when posting?!
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post #49846 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:31am
**Notice**

Stay on topic and don't post about other members.
Keep your ignore lists up to date.
Never reply to problematic posts or you become part of the problem.
Further disruptive posts will result in you being blocked from this thread.
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post #49847 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post


Keith, then your ears fall into the "or so" range. See how cautious I am when posting?!

. But 100 is not 'below' 80 Feri, or so or not
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post #49848 of 62234
2/1/12 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotto View Post

The TX-NR809 (I have one) has an initial Audyssey XT set-up screen which allows you to set your sub gain to read 75dB as measured by the set-up mic/AVR. The AVR sends a signal out to sub for that purpose.
I believe what the OP was proposing was when that screen was up and tone playing, with one sub turned on set it to 75dB, then turn it off and turn the other one on and set to 75dB independently of each other. They would then both be set to 75dB. Each sub is getting the same output from the AVR (either with a y splitter or via separate runs from the AVR as there are two connectors) as the 809 with XT doesn't have dual sub eq capabilities.

Yes that was what I was trying to say!
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post #49849 of 62234
2/1/12 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

When people use the same words to mean different things, it's hard to reach accord.

I agree, that's why I tried to be as precise as possible with this post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post21574698

If anybody has questions I'm willing to answer them in a honest and truthful manner just like I did in the past.
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post #49850 of 62234
2/1/12 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Stereo bass? More marketing BS. The whole reason bass management works is because sub frequencies are non-directional.

As much as I would like to agree, I did some subjective lateralization tests lately and had different results for frequencies below 80Hz. I'm currently trying to exclude other effects like distortions but there is directionality below 80Hz. This doesn't mean it's really relevant for speaker playback, especially when the speakers are placed within an acoustically small room. In the end it still might be better to listen to a summed, monophonic bass that is flat and spatially smooth than to listen to stereo bass that can't be optimized.
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post #49851 of 62234
2/1/12 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

so if i have two subs, i should be setting each one to 75 instead of having both on during the 75db calibration screen and getting the level to 75?

If you have two subs and your AVR can only optimize them as one (i.e. your sub doesn't have Sub EQ HT) you should set the level of both subs so their combined output measures 75dB SPL(C) at the main listening position.
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post #49852 of 62234
2/1/12 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Lang View Post

**Notice**

Stay on topic and don't post about other members.
Keep your ignore lists up to date.
Never reply to problematic posts or you become part of the problem.
Further disruptive posts will result in you being blocked from this thread.

Thanks Mike.
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post #49853 of 62234
2/1/12 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

As much as I would like to agree, I did some subjective lateralization tests lately and had different results for frequencies below 80Hz. I'm currently trying to exclude other effects like distortions but there is directionality below 80Hz. This doesn't mean it's really relevant for speaker playback, especially when the speakers are placed within an acoustically small room. In the end it still might be better to listen to a summed, monophonic bass that is flat and spatially smooth than to listen to stereo bass that can't be optimized.

I think localization is partly dependent upon the individual as well as characteristics imparted by the subs themselves.

Jeff
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post #49854 of 62234
2/1/12 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Thanks Mike.

I'm pretty sure that mods don't need thanks for doing their jobs here on the AudysseyAudysseyAudyssey thread.
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post #49855 of 62234
2/1/12 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I'm pretty sure that mods don't need thanks for doing their jobs here on the AudysseyAudysseyAudyssey thread.

I like to get a thank you for my work from time to time. A mod might feel the same.
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post #49856 of 62234
2/1/12 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

If you have two subs and your AVR can only optimize them as one (i.e. your sub doesn't have Sub EQ HT) you should set the level of both subs so their combined output measures 75dB SPL(C) at the main listening position.


I just purchased two BIC F12's and a Denon 1712 with Audyssey MultiEq XT. Since XT does not have a subwoofer level screen, and my receiver only has 1 sub out, I am on my way to buying a Y splitter and a SPL meter. My receiver should then have test tones to which I will select pink noise. While the noise is playing I will have both subwoofers on, and the SPL meter on C-weighted at the MLP with Mic pointed to the ceiling. I should then try to adjust both subwoofers levels equally to achieve a 75db reading correct?
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post #49857 of 62234
2/1/12 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Stereo bass? More marketing BS. The whole reason bass management works is because sub frequencies are non-directional.

Stereo bass is about low frequency envelopment, not directionality.

http://www.davidgriesinger.com/asa05.pdf
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post #49858 of 62234
2/1/12 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I'm pretty sure that mods don't need thanks for doing their jobs here on the AudysseyAudysseyAudyssey thread.

At least the Mods in this thread are ever-vigilant and step in at just the right time.
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post #49859 of 62234
2/1/12 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eba0922 View Post

I just purchased two BIC F12's and a Denon 1712 with Audyssey MultiEq XT. Since XT does not have a subwoofer level screen, and my receiver only has 1 sub out, I am on my way to buying a Y splitter and a SPL meter. My receiver should then have test tones to which I will select pink noise. While the noise is playing I will have both subwoofers on, and the SPL meter on C-weighted at the MLP with Mic pointed to the ceiling. I should then try to adjust both subwoofers levels equally to achieve a 75db reading correct?

Yes, 75dB SPL(C) with both subs playing at the same time.
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post #49860 of 62234
2/1/12 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eba0922 View Post

I just purchased two BIC F12's and a Denon 1712 with Audyssey MultiEq XT. Since XT does not have a subwoofer level screen, and my receiver only has 1 sub out, I am on my way to buying a Y splitter and a SPL meter. My receiver should then have test tones to which I will select pink noise. While the noise is playing I will have both subwoofers on, and the SPL meter on C-weighted at the MLP with Mic pointed to the ceiling. I should then try to adjust both subwoofers levels equally to achieve a 75db reading correct?

Yes - but note that a) your version of XT may indeed have a level setting screen (see earlier posts) and b) you should really measure the combined output of the two subs at 75dB - however I don't think it matters too much if you measure them individually at 75dB because Audyssey will trim them to 75dB as a pair when it does its measurements. If this results in a trim setting that is near the limits, you could measure each sub at about 72dB instead.
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