"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1758

I agree. In fact, as I think about it, I forgot that my evaluation of XT32 was via a move from XT and an Audyssey Sub EQ to an AVR with XT32. Considering that I was already XT32 on the subs, that my improvement was even moderate says a lot.

Those upgrading from XT to XT32 would surely be impressed ... unless the room is perfect, and we know there is no such thing.

I should have said "at least moderate" . . . . or maybe "likely significant."

Knowing them they won't stop, they will surely push forward quantity wise and we will still feel better integration, etc. Emphasis is on FEEL! Nothing wrong with that, but at some point they will need to lead us to another giant leap quality wise. What it will be SQ wise we don't know yet, but knowing ourselves we will surely stay tuned!

I would believe it if you proved it in a strict level controlled dbx trial. And given the other thread, I want to be clear I'm not being facetious.

And don't think I don't believe in Audyssey, I do. However, to my surprise I have had 2 listeners(one who has Audyssey and one who doesn't) choose Audyssey off as a preference in an A/B comparo and I have come to prefer Audyssey off at reference in my system. Again, every room is different and speakers are different, so not a statistic that means a whole lot, but enough to sow doubt in my mind.

Edit: BTW Jeff, I believe you think you hear a difference - I don't think you're lying. I'm just not convinced what you think you hear is what you really hear.

Not being facetious either, but I'm unfamiliar with a dbx trial. By any chance did you mean to type abx trial? If not, please enlighten me

Cheers,
SB

I hope you are right, Feri. But I wonder if their direction is going in different ways nowadays - they seem to be concentrating a lot on their own products and OEM stuff.

Yes, double blind got mixed up in there

Does this mean XT32 is the end of the road? What happened to LFC (Low Frequency Containment)? Ever introduced? Is this a calm before the storm? Who knows? Let's see!

A preference for Audyssey Off could be due to numerous reasons. When I a/b'ed my own system, it was initially difficult to decide between Audyssey On vs Off.

After repeated a/b'ing, I determined what I thought the differences were and preferred XT32. THEN out of curiosity, I measured the system with Audyssey On vs Off and the measurements concurred with my impressions.

Upon reviewing the graphs, I can certainly see why listeners might prefer Off on my system. The natural unEQ'd graph follows the Harman curve of a gently descending power response slope as frequency increases.

The XT32 curve is flatter and horizontal out to the HF rolloff point (with the BBC dip).
J
The natural curve has more bass with the Harman curve, but the bass with XT32 is still tighter even with room treatments and the imaging is slightly better with XT32.

To induce my own house curve, I use a trick amongst Seaton SubM owners of EQ'ing the SubM in prgm 1 and then switching to prgm 2 without reEQ'ing. The resultant REW graph is identical except for a slight boost from 40hz down. The characteristics are similar to the Harman curve, and a lot of SubM owners seem to like the results of using this trick coupled with Audyssey.


Max

Interesting points. We are planning on running the A/B/X test on Dennis' 885 (which I owned prior to this) and my 5508, and that should offer some proof. However, doing an A/B/X of the 885 with XT and the 885 with XT 32 is obviously not possible. And doing the test with the 885/Audyssey vs the 5508/Audyssey is not fair. So there is really no way to isolate and compare XT to XT 32.

Let's just say I bought the 5508 for the better sound quality over the 885, the proof of which can be tested ... and XT 32 came along for the ride.

As for people preferring Audyssey off vs on, my bet is that it is the low end that is most different and that there are one or two fortuitous room modes accentuating certain sounds ... sounds that are "missed" when Audyssey is on because they have been leveled with all of the other sounds. This is exactly what is happening in many instances of newbs coming in here and proclaiming that Audyssey has ruined their bass.

Bring in a musician, especially a bass player, play a song with a prominent bass part with Audyssey on and then off and ask them which they prefer.

For your listen preference, are you using DEQ?

Jeff

Yes. My Ron carter CDs came alive with XT 32.; no dyn eq.

Ok, thanks for the input! You've got me sold. Looks like I'll be getting an Onkyo 818... price looks great for XT32.

And if what everyone is saying is correct, it should be a major improvement over the regular 2EQ on my current AVR...

The difference is huge.

So, as in most of the cases as I see the differences between movie and music listening is somewhat and sometimes overlooked, discussions and debates do not distinguish what the program material is when spreading out opinion.

Nonethless, I dare to say in my humble experience that Audyssey is a tool that makes both film (with reference recording levels) and music (without known reference) sound great. Especially with DEQ engaged. For film it's obvious, I leave all the settings at reference as Audyssey has set it coz basically Audyssey is for film, but honestly, if you haven't been able to do all the workarounds for music throughout the last couple of years (yes, YEARS) since Audyssey MultEQ + DEQ has been around then you've still got homework to do.

It could be compared using a 5508/5509 and an Audyssey Sound EQ.

Seems like a lot of work and expense. I am more interested in the naked 885 vs the naked 5508. And the 5508 vs a modded 5508.

Jeff

Well, there kinda is. The Flagship Denon pre/pro AVP1A and AVR 5308have an XT->XT32 upgrade available (hardware and firmware and a service visit are involved and it costs $1K). This is a rare opportunity to compare XT vs XT32 in the same model-same exact preamp, DACs, opamps, etc etc.

Though no one has done a scientifically valid A/B of a stock vs upgraded unit (and I'm betting no one ever will), all owners who have done the upgrade report the same sorts of significant SQ improvements the rest of us who moved from an XT to an XT32 model report. These tend to be folks with very high-end gear in a dedicated HT.

All we can do is wait and see... I hope there are further improvements down the line - although it is hard to see how much better it can be. Maybe they will introduce new features, perhaps like the Trinnov's ability to 'move' speakers around. I love the idea of that.

It certainly does. A huge spec for the money.


Chalk and cheese. You will be blown away is my guess.

Anyone with Polk Monitor 50's care to chime in whether to comment if upping the crossover to 80 is recommended? I was wondering if I should push down to 60 as they are rated for lower -3db limit at 57. Audessey seems to always set at 40-60, but always saw people set rule of thumb for changing all to 80.

I don't use DEQ with the exception of TV viewing as I personally don't like what it does for movies and music.

As to the preference thing, I find Audyssey does wonderful things for my bass. Ringing is reduced objectively and subjectively and seat-to-seat variance is improved. It's the top end that's the problem and for some reason Audyssey doesn't trust me to determine where I want Audyssey Pro to leave things alone up there.

You are absolutely correct with the bass and one of my favorite demos lately is Jeff Beck: Live at Ronnie Scott's bluray. The bass player just rips some incredible lines that are like a shiatsu couch massage at about 110 dB.

Well, if you can't determine the 885 xt from the 5508 xt32 in ABX testing then there won't be any reason to compare two 885's. So let's take it one step at a time .

I would use SACDs with good jazz quartets as one of the vehicles for comparison. The Passos Cater SACD shows off the good systems well.

I did only post the Word document, as I thought it would be easier that way? I did not realize that people would have to create an account for keepandshare, so that will not work. I guess I need to re-size those images as suggested earlier.

The guide is still in one document, but there are some additional information documents I have attached. That note about sub distance adjustments is in section VII. D. 4., so that must have been an iphone issue.

Mark

I found an article that recommended sites, and 4share was at the top, but the account initialization step simply did not work for me (on a Mac), so I gave up.

I will try and re-size the photos as suggested to get the file size down.

Edit: I got 4Shared working and posted the document there, as well as changing the link in the Setup Guide post. I also checked the image sizes, and they are already pretty small ~240k each, since they were posted on AVS. I guess the sheer number of them in the doc is a problem. However, as long as I can host it off-site, the few who will want to download it can get to it.

Mark

Yes, I knew 818, but at the time, my mind was thinking something else, and I typed 819...

Can't call it a typo, but a brain fart.

80 Hz is just what you say - a rule of thumb. (Although it was arrived at after extensive research by THX). Feel free to experiment with different settings - but remember that you should never lower the XO set after your Audyssey calibration, only raise it. There are very good reasons to use a higher crossover:

2. I often see advice to change the crossovers from what Audyssey has set to 80Hz. Why is this? Has Audyssey ‘got it wrong’? (click here)

4. Is it OK to change the Crossovers (XOs) from Audyssey's recommendation? (click here)

When I looked up the Onkyo 819 I found an integrated stereo amp - I am sure, from looking at the picture, that I actually owned one of those once. Took me way back....

Look at that, responding with faq links now haha. Audyssey should hire you as a pr rep

???? That is the whole point of the FAQ

EDIT: Do you think the links go to Audyssey's site??

Anyone know why the 'indent' on the FAQ is set narrower than all the other posts? (See attached pic).


EDIT: problem solved. See reply to JD below.