"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #1) - Page 1804

Agree.


Disagree. Instead of a mile long list let's call them by the name of their infamous group within society: Politicians!!!

Audyssey just set my left main to 150 and right to 90 with center at 80. Should I change the left and right and make it 80hz?

How is that possible? Chris has repeated said the Audyssey sets speakers in pairs (when pairs are applicable) and always chooses the higher x-over point of the two. What receiver do you have?

IMHO, the precise imaging vs. diffuse cues discussion does not fully capture the concept of envelopment. I can stick a pair of direct firing surround speakers at the Dolby-prescribed angle and height a few feet on either side of my couch and wind up without a convincing sense of envelopment, which to me implies a certain ratio of direct vs. indirect sound from the loudspeaker itself, especially in the lower frequencies.

Does the "sound of indirect sound" mixed into a directly-firing surround speaker create a suitable enough approximation of envelopment, or do we need the real thing for it to be convincing (i.e. filling the room with real reflections, not sitting near a recording of reflections)?

Envelopment to me means the bathroom test. When I get up to go to the bathroom during a movie, does the illusion fall apart when I get out of my seat, or do I still experience a room full of sound encircling me regardless of where I move.

As far as the idea of precise imaging all around, overhead, everywhere...doesn't that get us back to the gimmick of early multi-channel audio recordings, where folks thought it would be cool to sit "inside" the band on the stage rather than "in front of" the band out in the audience? Turns out it's just weird to sit inside of a band as it plays, with drums imaging sharply...behind me.

If the direction in Hollywood is to have an abundance of precise imaging to the left, right, behind, and above, I trust they will also wrap projection screens all around the theater so I can see what the heck is making those identifiable, non-frontal noises in the movie? The content makers want me to keep my eyes on the screen, right? That will be difficult if the main characters are having a discussion in a helicopter...directly above me...I will naturally look up. If it's beyond just diffuse background noise, and it's mixed so I can clearly make it out, it must be important to the movie right? Then let me turn my head and see that part of the storyline through motion pictures--a planetarium-style theater would be just about right. But when I turn my head, instead I'll see other people sitting there and the movie experience falls apart...I'm out of the fantasy.

One last request...can we add floor speakers too? And a floor screen so I can hear and see the ants below me in the latest Indiana Jones movie. ;-)

To conclude, in my opinion only, if I can't see on the screen in front of me exactly what is producing a critical sound, or just off of the screen, I do not think it should precisely image, but rather should remain a diffuse part of the sound field for the reasons described above. Ok, with maybe the exception of an Imperial Star Destroyer flying over my head onto the screen (i.e. the opening of Star Wars.) ;-)

Sorry my bad I meant Audyssey set my left, right main to 150 and center to 80 with surrounds to 90hz.

Settings represent the room response for your speakers - you can try repositioning your L/R mains - perhaps toe them in to intersect at MLP, move away from walls, closer or further than current positions, each adjustment may impact your in room response and influence your cross over settings.

Nor did I say they did. I doubt they will here a discouraging word from the cheering-them-on consumer A/V electronic manufacturers though. From Audioholics -

"I still think it's crazy to add more speakers when most consumers can barely add 5 quality speakers and a sub. Says Gene. Still, I'm always eager to hear and try new formats.

"But the biggest hurdle for Atmos and its competition in the home market will be selling people on even more speakers, cables, wires and associated installations. It's a steep price to pay for more blades and even closer shave."

Hi asere, I think you have come to the right place when you need help. This Audyssey thread is available on a 24/7 basis. Meantime, in order to do a collective troubleshooting you need to be cooperative. Sometimes texting is not enough. Care to share a couple of photos of your system? That would surely help the Board here even to spot the smallest detail you might have overlooked during your initial setup.

Lookin' forward!

I cannot change the position as they are in ceiling speakers.

Heys guys I've got a question , im running a Integra 80.3 with my Parasound Halo A52 and when I ran Audyessey it set my trim levels as low as they can go on my front stage speakers Klipsch RF7 II and center RS62 . It sounds great but was curious why it would do that and if I should bump up my trim levels a little and maybe check it with my spl meter . Thanks in advance !

It just means that the gain of your amps coupled with the high sensitivity of the Klipsch speakers has bottomed out the trim adjustment on the receiver. Optimally, what you should do is use a pad between the receiver and amp to reduce the gain and thereby increase the trims.

The problem is that with the trims maxed out on the negative end, you have no idea where the calibration would have set each one to get all the speakers to properly match up. Just arbitrarily changing the trims will throw off things like Dynamic EQ even further.


Max

Thanks for the reply, although im not familiar with using a pad i've heard of them do you happen to have a link or know were to pick one up ? Thanks again.

Something like these will do the job (amusingly enough, one of the reviews for the item is for exactly the reason you're looking for, i.e. Audyssey calibration trims).

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=266-244


Max

Thanks very much for the link and the info ! Were do they go between the pre/pro and the amp or between the amp and the speakers ? Also im running xlr's balanced cables . Im wondering if swtiching from RCA connects to xlr's caused the increase also or contributed to the low trim settings .

They go between the pre-pro and amp. On that site, you can also find XLR pads (they might be listed under "xlr pad" or "xlr attenuator"). Yes, a lot of equipment has higher signal levels on XLR vs. RCA.


Max

Thanks much , I will pick some up . I think your wright because I know when I ran audyessey with the RCA's my trim levels werent bottomed out.

Fine. The point is that any specs are based on use in the original ensemble and in a particular acoustic environment, not yours. In addition, these specs are notoriously optimistic or misleading and Audyssey is measuring the actual performance in your room.


No but you (1) will lose any Audyssey EQ in the range below the Audyssey/Onkyo-determined crossover frequency and (2) may not have any adequate output in the range below where the speakers actually roll off and the new setting.


Yes.

Here is a pic of my mains. You cannot see the center because of fan. The mains are crossed at 150 and center at 80. Anything I can do to have Audyssey calibrate it to 80 like center?

Any chance of buying some bookshelf speakers for use up front and repurposing those ceiling speakers for the height channels?

You need to upgrade the speakers. It's obvious from the size of the speaker grilles that the midrange/woofers are too small to be able to deliver low frequencies at a significant volume. Unfortunately, that's likely to cost a significant amount, both for construction and for the speakers since new holes with appropriate speaker supports will need to be cut in the ceiling.

if it cannot handle the low frequency then how come it set my surrounds to 80 ? My surrounds and left right mains are the same specs.

If they really are exactly the same speaker drivers, then I'd start by looking into how they're mounted. If the front speakers are more recessed, for example, or aren't pointing toward the primary listening position, or (to a lesser extent) have different grilles, those all would affect what sounds get to the microphone.

Another thing to look at is the floor, which isn't shown in your picture. Does it have a rug in front of the couch or is it bare hardwood or tiles?
Those flat, hard-surfaced walls affect the sound, too. What does the room look like behind the viewpoint? It could be that the reflecting surfaces are at just the wrong distances from the speakers and the primary listening position so that audio reflections are causing a significant dip in response below 150 Hz, making Audyssey think that the fronts stop there.

The only way to be sure would be to make some formal measurements of the audio environment. A calibrated microphone and REW software might help. Without that, we're reduced to guesswork.

I still say those speakers are too small, though Exactly what model are they?

Are the surrounds closer to walls than the mains? That would tend to reinforce their bass response.

Also, are there true "boxes" in the ceiling behind the drivers, or are the studs and drywall being used as a box? Putting a woofer in the appropriate size box based on its Thiele/Small parameters is correct way to get the correct bass, not just luck depending upon how the carpenters decided to frame the ceiling. It could be that the speakers that aren't going as low have a really small (or very large i.e. infinite) "enclosure" behind them, either choking the bass or causing the speakers to operate very inefficiently in an infinite baffle mode.

Plus the main speakers are far away from the video source, which isn't really a best practice either. Any chance you can go with 3 bookshelf speakers on the mantle for L,C,R and re-purpose those ceiling speakers for the height channel?

I have carpet on the floor and my left surround is closer to a wall then the right. The speakers have no enclosure. Can I upgrade the fronts like my center and keep the surrounds the same. Surrounds are proficient brand c605 model.

A quick web search turned up "PROFICIENT AUDIO SYSTEMS C605 6.5" Polypropylene Ceiling Speakers"" Is that the model you mean?

Do you know what speaker drivers are used for the fronts and middle?
Ideally the speakers should all be the same so voices would sound the same when they seem to circle around the listener.

As tandy pointed out, the speaker drivers do need to be mounted in proper enclosures inside the ceiling. Without those enclosures, there's no way to predict exactly how they'll sound (other than bad).

Yes that is the right model and my center is c660

The 660 seems to be a higher grade speaker model than the 605. It's also includes an angled tweeter so it can be pointed more toward the listening position rather than firing straight down. If you upgrade them, the fronts should be the same as the center.

The text on the Proficient web site implies that you might have had a professional installer put in the speakers. Is that the case? If so, you should point out to them that enclosures weren't installed. Unfortunately, the brochures on the Proficent site are only glitzy ads with no installation instructions. They assume that the installer realizes that you can't just fasten them to brackets.

Should I get enclosures or just upgrade the mains to the c660 to match the center?

Both. I did finally manage to locate their "installation manual". To my (and I suspect others') horror, it makes no mention of enclosures: it says (effectively) just to cut holes in the ceiling. I haven't found any design documents which would justify that recommendation, though.
Some literature is available at http://www.proficientaudio.com/literature
and the LCR Ceiling manual, in particular.

FWIW, they do seem to recommend that 660s be used for all of the speakers, not just the center. See the C660 brochure at the bottom of the page. I'm guessing that the 605s were chosen as a cost-containment measure.

How much are enclosures? Right now the system sounds nice it's than I'm anal that the left, right does not go to 80.